Getting info from a black hole

[SamBridge]

A lot of the older physics says information itself doesn't travel faster than light. In nearly every local frame and on its own even with entanglement, this is true. However, I have seen a lot of news like this http://www.forbes.com/sites/alexknapp/2012/09/06/physicists-quantum-teleport-photons-over-88-miles/

in the last few years and even older references to older entanglement experiments, .

Even if information doesn't travel faster than light outside of certain curvatures of space, could have an entangled pair, put one component of the pair inside a black hole and potentially teleport a photon to the outside component of the pair? And why not?

[MigL]

Your interpretation of entanglement is faulty.

 

Information propagation is limited to the speed of light.

 

Information is believed to be stored on the event horizon of a black hole and conserved.

This conservation law is a quantum mechanical consequence while black holes are currently understood as classical GR consequence.

We await the unification of the two to get a better understanding of these effects.

[SamBridge]

Your interpretation of entanglement is faulty.

 

Information propagation is limited to the speed of light.

 

Information is believed to be stored on the event horizon of a black hole and conserved.

This conservation law is a quantum mechanical consequence while black holes are currently understood as classical GR consequence.

We await the unification of the two to get a better understanding of these effects.

The understanding of entanglement isn't faulty, its the transportation of photons that is. Entanglement on its own doesn't transmit information between two points, that's why the disentanglement can happen instantaneously regardless of distance. However, considering the fact that the photon did not travel through the intervening space and thus couldn't have run into the even horizon, how do you resolve this? As I understand it, one photon is destroyed and a new one is created, and It still might take time to measure the whole teleportation event even as if the photon traveled through the intervening space at the speed of light, but there's no physical reason for it to run into the event horizon. I can't think that it would actually violate relativity since the event didn't actually make a photon travel distance over time faster than the speed of light, but maybe there's some conservation flaw.

 

Anyway that article doesn't work anymore for some reason, so here's this one http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2012-05/chinese-physicists-teleport-protons-over-100-kilometers

Edited April 20, 2014 by SamBridge

[swansont]

Teleportation requires the transmission of some information from the sender to receiver, as well as an entangled particle. How do either one get out of the black hole?

[SamBridge]

Teleportation requires the transmission of some information from the sender to receiver, as well as an entangled particle. How do either one get out of the black hole?

Well that's what I'm inquiring about. Even though we don't have any proof of the answer either way, I'd still like to think there's a good chance all those scientists are right in their hypothesizing, but I just don't see how.

 

"one" doesn't enter and exit, one gets destroyed, and a new one with the destroyed photon's properties gets created without traveling through the intervening space, so the question now isn't if photons can travel outside the black hole since we know they can't and they didn't, its if information itself can, or if it doesn't, why doesn't it given the circumstances. Stephen Hawking likes to think there was some way information could escape, and that's why he spent time looking deeper into Hawking radiation.

Edited April 21, 2014 by SamBridge

[swansont]

But we do know how quantum teleportation works. There must be a classical communication channel, and an entangled particle, that pass from Alice to Bob.

[SamBridge]

But we do know how quantum teleportation works. There must be a classical communication channel, and an entangled particle, that pass from Alice to Bob.

So throw one end into the black hole and keep one out of the black hole, that's what I'm asking about. At a certain angle after passing the event horizon, it would be impossible for a photon to travel back upwards into the communication device assuming it isn't insanely delocalized or destroyed from tidal forces, however since the device and mass-ful entangled particle can't travel past the speed of light, a photon traveling from the direction of the event horizon would always be able to catch up to it from the frame of the communication device inside the black hole. The only real funny thing to work out, assuming space still exists in some way we think of it inside a black hole, is the timing issue. We would see the device red-shift as it approached the black hole but supposedly never pass the event horizon, but from the entangled particle's frame it didn't see time stop, it can hypothetically still send information from a photon that's behind it.

Edited April 21, 2014 by SamBridge

[swansont]

Sure. Science just needs a quantum theory of gravity to work it out.

[SamBridge]

Sure. Science just needs a quantum theory of gravity to work it out.

Right, but with the current explanation, why do scientists think information gets stuck at the event horizon? Like what reason is there for that?

Edited April 21, 2014 by SamBridge

[MigL]

The surface of the event horizon can be related to the temperature of a black hole and to its entropy. Entropy is a measure of the increase or decrease of the degrees of freedom of a system, i.e. information. Also the event horizon is the only place where it could be conserved.

 

And you're right, this is attributed to Hawking and a graduate student whose name sound like Beckenstein ( ask AJB he knows who I mean).

[imatfaal]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_Bekenstein

[MigL]

Thank you, imatfaal.