EdEarl Posted April 21, 2014 Posted April 21, 2014 sciencedaily.com In a huge study of half a million men and women, researchers have demonstrated an association between processed meat and cardiovascular disease and cancer. sciencedaily.com A common genetic variant that affects one in three people appears to significantly increase the risk of colorectal cancer from the consumption of processed meat, according to a new study. These are a partial case for being vegan. -1
Devansh Posted May 18, 2014 Posted May 18, 2014 If the walls of all slaughter houses in the world were made up of glass. Every one would have been a vegetarian.
imatfaal Posted May 18, 2014 Posted May 18, 2014 If the walls of all slaughter houses in the world were made up of glass. Every one would have been a vegetarian. Nonsense. For the vast majority of human history and for many people in the less affluent parts of the world in the present day we have been/still are completely cognisant with the slaughter of livestock.
Unity+ Posted May 18, 2014 Posted May 18, 2014 These are a partial case for being vegan. Again, these cases only apply to processed meat, as stated before in other topics dealing with this.
EdEarl Posted May 19, 2014 Author Posted May 19, 2014 Again, these cases only apply to processed meat, as stated before in other topics dealing with this. Why does some processed meat have reduced cholesterol?
John Cuthber Posted May 19, 2014 Posted May 19, 2014 Why does some processed meat have reduced cholesterol? Dietary cholesterol has a relatively minor impact on blood levels. Most of the cholesterol in the body is synthesised there. And, Devansh, for the record, re. "If the walls of all slaughter houses in the world were made up of glass. Every one would have been a vegetarian." nope, I know what goes on and I still eat meat. So, of course, do most of the people who work in them. 3
Devansh Posted May 19, 2014 Posted May 19, 2014 (edited) The butcher is very careful while chopping the animal that knife must not even touch his finger. But what about that poor animal? Can't he see the connection that there is also life in that animal. Animal also feels pain. In addition to that there are many harmful effects of meat eating. For details visit this link : http://www.evolvingwellness.com/essay/15-reasons-why-you-may-want-to-reconsider-eating-meat Edited May 19, 2014 by Devansh -1
Arete Posted May 19, 2014 Posted May 19, 2014 The butcher is very careful while chopping the animal that knife must not even touch his finger. But what about that poor animal? Can't he see the connection that there is also life in that animal. Animal also feels pain. Carrots are alive. Plants respond to painful stimuli too http://www.pri.org/stories/2014-01-09/new-research-plant-intelligence-may-forever-change-how-you-think-about-plants Also, stone fruits contain cyanide, tomatoes and potatoes contain solanine, broccoli, apples, onions, oranges, strawberries, lemons and mushrooms all contain acetaldehyde, a natural by-product of oxidation and a known human carcinogen... etc etc. Your argument could be spun against almost any food product consumable by humans. 2
overtone Posted May 20, 2014 Posted May 20, 2014 Processed, artificially handled animals are bad for you to eat. Unprocessed, natural vegetation is bad for you to eat. Plants are deficient in nutrients, are difficult in general to digest, usually require laborious and complicated processing, and in many cases are outright poisonous. On average: if you run into a plant growing out in the world somewhere, kill it, and eat it, you will get no from value from it and will instead get sick. If you run into an animal and do the same, on average you will be fed. If you farm and eat plants, you will in the process kill almost every living being bigger than a pinhead on several hectares of ground, by fair means and foul, one way or another. Most of them you will never see. If you graze a few cows or sheep or the like on that same ground, many other beings will live there and you can kill the food animal with respect. And so forth. 2
Acme Posted May 20, 2014 Posted May 20, 2014 Processed, artificially handled animals are bad for you to eat. Unprocessed, natural vegetation is bad for you to eat. Plants are deficient in nutrients, are difficult in general to digest, usually require laborious and complicated processing, and in many cases are outright poisonous. On average: if you run into a plant growing out in the world somewhere, kill it, and eat it, you will get no from value from it and will instead get sick. If you run into an animal and do the same, on average you will be fed. ... This is as much nonsense as Ed's ongoing thread-after-thread claims that any meat is bad for you. So ridiculous is your claim that in the interest of saving space I see no need to mention any plant-derived foods other than fruits & per se nuts. Human's are omnivores, plain and simple. Good grief. 1
EdEarl Posted May 21, 2014 Author Posted May 21, 2014 This is as much nonsense as Ed's ongoing thread-after-thread claims that any meat is bad for you. So ridiculous is your claim that in the interest of saving space I see no need to mention any plant-derived foods other than fruits & per se nuts. Human's are omnivores, plain and simple. Good grief. I don't rant, but provide info (mostly) from peer reviewed papers. And, I'm not saying all meat is bad per se, rather that vegetables provide better nutrition (currently my opinion), except for B12 that comes from bacteria. Although, meat and meat products contain copious amounts of B12; whereas, vegies do not.
Acme Posted May 21, 2014 Posted May 21, 2014 I don't rant, but provide info (mostly) from peer reviewed papers. And, I'm not saying all meat is bad per se, rather that vegetables provide better nutrition (currently my opinion), except for B12 that comes from bacteria. Although, meat and meat products contain copious amounts of B12; whereas, vegies do not. I didn't say rant. Your opinion is without merit.
Mordred Posted May 21, 2014 Posted May 21, 2014 hard to find peer reviewed sites for health benefits for eating meat. However here is one site that explains some of the health benefits, processed meat and processed fruits and vegetables are of course no where near as healthy as unprocessed. http://authoritynutrition.com/7-evidence-based-health-reasons-to-eat-meat/ some supportive links http://www.medicaldaily.com/3-benefits-eating-meat-234798 However I should note its also not without its health risks, Red meat being higher in trans fats in processed meats this is often higher. The key is a balanced diet, you can have too much calcium, too much vitamin c, too much iron, etc. Balanced diet is the key. However every persons individual chemistry is slightly different. Thats why its important to have blood tests and find out what your system is lacking, as far as vitamins and nutrients
Unity+ Posted May 21, 2014 Posted May 21, 2014 However I should note its also not without its health risks, Red meat being higher in trans fats in processed meats this is often higher. The key is a balanced diet, you can have too much calcium, too much vitamin c, too much iron, etc. Balanced diet is the key. However every persons individual chemistry is slightly different. Thats why its important to have blood tests and find out what your system is lacking, as far as vitamins and nutrients Everything in the world has its risks, whether at the smallest level or the largest scale. Determining the level of this is the significance. 2
Phi for All Posted May 21, 2014 Posted May 21, 2014 I remember reading some time ago that part of the problems with modern flour is that it's so heavily processed that our bodies have a hard time recognizing it as food. I'm not sure if this is correct, as it might have been from a pop-sci source, but I've always tried to limit my intake of any processed foods because of this. The quest to make food that most people find non-objectionable (which is the real goal of any processed foods maker, instead of making food everyone loves which is much harder) seems unrelated to the goals of modern culinary trends with the end-user, except possibly the convenience angle.
uglyuglydumb Posted May 21, 2014 Posted May 21, 2014 (edited) "But eating meat is hard on the environment it demands a lot of land and water. And yet we can't go around telling everyone they have to be vegetarians." -bill gates http://m.rollingstone.com/culture/news/bill-gates-the-rolling-stone-interview-20140313 What is "hard" on a human being environment is "hard" on a human being. Processed meats are bad mm`kay? Edited May 21, 2014 by uglyuglydumb
chadn737 Posted May 21, 2014 Posted May 21, 2014 I have a problem with the seeming assumption that "unprocessed" is necessarily better than "processed" in any context. First off, the processing differs from food to food. Sausage is not processed in the same way that a chicken nugget is. The two are not necessarily comparable in health effects simply because they are "processed". The same is true of processed vegetables. Secondly, its an assumption based on the Appeal to Nature fallacy. Unfortunately, these studies are conducted on Western populations where there is an obesity epidemic due to reduced physical activity and increased calorie consumption. This directly correlates to the consumption of processed foods because of their cheapness and convenience. Seeking to blame particular foods or processing for health effects is largely an attempt to shift responsibility for health effects. Healthier living can be accomplished through what we have long known; eating in moderation and being more physically active. 1
Acme Posted May 21, 2014 Posted May 21, 2014 "But eating meat is hard on the environment it demands a lot of land and water. And yet we can't go around telling everyone they have to be vegetarians." -bill gates http://m.rollingstone.com/culture/news/bill-gates-the-rolling-stone-interview-20140313 What is "hard" on a human being environment is "hard" on a human being. Processed meats are bad mm`kay? The issue here is not the effects of raising & processing stock but the direct effects of meat eating on human health. Never try to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and it annoys the pig. ~ R. Heinlein 1
chadn737 Posted May 21, 2014 Posted May 21, 2014 I'm all for a reduced meat diet, particularly for environmental reasons. The biology of a human, however, is one of an omnivorous diet and meat is one of the most nutritionally packed foods available, including many essential nutrients that are hard to obtain through purely vegetarian (especially vegan) means. Raising of lifestock on grasslands is a great way to produce food from marginal land at high risk of damage by cultivation. Health wise, as with anything...simply eat in moderation.
Acme Posted May 21, 2014 Posted May 21, 2014 Are we considering cultured meat processed? Sure. Ed's overarching beef after all is that any meat is bad. I note that the article linked to in the OP doesn't even define "processed". Moreover they say: ...However, a small amount of red meat appeared to be beneficial which the researchers suggest is because meat is an important source of nutrients and vitamins. ... source Meat an important source of nutrients & vitamins!? Imagine that.
Phi for All Posted May 22, 2014 Posted May 22, 2014 I note that the article linked to in the OP doesn't even define "processed". I don't consider a package of ground beef I buy at the grocery to be "processed", although grinding meat is most certainly a process where additives and fillers can be introduced. If I buy a frozen lasagne that has ground beef in it, this is what I call "processed" meat. I have little idea of what's been done to it in order to mass-produce a fully cooked meat dish that just needs to be brought to desired temperature. I know much of the processing is to make it easier and cheaper to ship, store, merchandise, and many other reasons not related to nutrition. I also don't consider in vitro, or cultured meat, to be processed, although I don't really know what, if anything, is being introduced into the meat as it grows. I would hope there is a great deal of effort going into making meat that minimizes the bad aspects while enhancing the good. Considering there is no harm at all done to animals from cultured meats, even Vegans should be happy to at least let the rest of us omnivorate in peace.
EdEarl Posted May 26, 2014 Author Posted May 26, 2014 The article did not specify what about processed meats caused them to be bad. As I read the article, they tested processed meat, but did not exclude the possibility that other meats and meat products are also bad for a person. The article quoted below suggests that all meats may not be as good for people as vegetables. Unfortunately, it too is vague and can be interpreted several ways. sciencedaily.com In addition to weight loss, a vegan low-carbohydrate diet may also reduce the risk of heart disease by 10 percent over 10 years, researchers have demonstrated for the first time. The diet is a low-carbohydrate vegan diet. Many low-carbohydrate diets have been proven to improve weight loss but most emphasize eating animal proteins and fats, which may raise cholesterol. Diets that are high in vegetable proteins and oils may reduce the risk of heart disease by lowering "bad cholesterol."
Acme Posted May 26, 2014 Posted May 26, 2014 The article did not specify what about processed meats caused them to be bad. As I read the article, they tested processed meat, but did not exclude the possibility that other meats and meat products are also bad for a person. The article quoted below suggests that all meats may not be as good for people as vegetables. Unfortunately, it too is vague and can be interpreted several ways. I interpret your case as specifically lame Ed. Omnivores; balanced diet; moderation.
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