Christian Help(About concepts)

[Lightmeow]

So I just have a few quick questions about things that never quite made sense to me.

 

First, I was talking to a friend about what is wrong with homosexuals. I said I had nothing against them. She, also said she had nothing against them, but she didn't like the idea that they were going to hell. I replied to this, "Well, if they believe in hell". Then she says, well, if you don't beleive in hell, you will go anyways. I wanted to ask her, do all of the isolated tribes go to hell just because they didn't believe in god.
Do they?

 

And the next question that I am going to ask actually got me kicked out of church.

 

What do people wear in heaven? Then I asked the priest, are they naked. He said no because that was the first thing adam and eve figured out when they ate the apple. The second thing. Do they wear white robes. The priest said no. Then I asked, do they wear what they were wearing when they died? He said no. Then I said then what do they wear. He said he didn't know. I said a few remarks about how stupid that was, then he exiled me from the church. Thus my hate of religion.

 

Any one want to sheed some light on this????

[Sato]

Yes, they all go to hell. In fact, because there is more than one religion that considers all non-believers fated to go to hell, everyone goes to hell.

 

Also, considering that heaven isn't real, there's no point in speculating about what they'd wear.

[Unity+]

Yes, they all go to hell. In fact, because there is more than one religion that considers all non-believers fated to go to hell, everyone goes to hell.

 

Also, considering that heaven isn't real, there's no point in speculating about what they'd wear.

Well, I don't know if this was meant to be a serious answer, but let me take a nab at the question.

 

 

So I just have a few quick questions about things that never quite made sense to me.

 

First, I was talking to a friend about what is wrong with homosexuals. I said I had nothing against them. She, also said she had nothing against them, but she didn't like the idea that they were going to hell. I replied to this, "Well, if they believe in hell". Then she says, well, if you don't beleive in hell, you will go anyways. I wanted to ask her, do all of the isolated tribes go to hell just because they didn't believe in god.

Do they?

I remember talking to someone about this(being religious and all) and I tend to take their perspective on this, which is "It doesn't matter what the name of a song is, all that matters is what it sounds like."

 

Many people may disagree with me and I also take concern with the idea, but I relate the millions of religions that exist to "The Tower of Babel", where afterwords everyone at first seemed to understand each other under one common language, but then began to not able to understand each other and soon many languages were spoken(and this is not considering the truth of the story, but the main point). The idea is though people may believe in a different name of deity doesn't mean they don't have similar morals. Even I take concern on the philosophy and am careful with it because it can lead to certain issues, but at least consider it.

 

Also, I would like to tell her "He/She who has not sinned, cast the first stone."

 

 

 

What do people wear in heaven? Then I asked the priest, are they naked. He said no because that was the first thing adam and eve figured out when they ate the apple. The second thing. Do they wear white robes. The priest said no. Then I asked, do they wear what they were wearing when they died? He said no. Then I said then what do they wear. He said he didn't know. I said a few remarks about how stupid that was, then he exiled me from the church. Thus my hate of religion.

If he truly were a priest, he would have said "The material world does not apply to what is not of material." Though I do not know what heaven looks like(whether or not you do believe in an afterlife), I can use the logic of a separation from the material and non-material and can assume that nothing is worn in heaven. That is the best I can answer.

[Lightmeow]

Well, I don't know if this was meant to be a serious answer, but let me take a nab at the question.

 

 

I remember talking to someone about this(being religious and all) and I tend to take their perspective on this, which is "It doesn't matter what the name of a song is, all that matters is what it sounds like."

 

Many people may disagree with me and I also take concern with the idea, but I relate the millions of religions that exist to "The Tower of Babel", where afterwords everyone at first seemed to understand each other under one common language, but then began to not able to understand each other and soon many languages were spoken(and this is not considering the truth of the story, but the main point). The idea is though people may believe in a different name of deity doesn't mean they don't have similar morals. Even I take concern on the philosophy and am careful with it because it can lead to certain issues, but at least consider it.

 

Also, I would like to tell her "He/She who has not sinned, cast the first stone."

 

If he truly were a priest, he would have said "The material world does not apply to what is not of material." Though I do not know what heaven looks like(whether or not you do believe in an afterlife), I can use the logic of a separation from the material and non-material and can assume that nothing is worn in heaven. That is the best I can answer.

He didn't say that about the clothing... And he was a priest...

 

 

 

Yes, they all go to hell. In fact, because there is more than one religion that considers all non-believers fated to go to hell, everyone goes to hell.

 

Also, considering that heaven isn't real, there's no point in speculating about what they'd wear.

Yes, that is what I meant. And the question I asked the priest was when I was 7. What Unity said did make sense though. Maybe some Christians aren't smart enough to know this.

[Greg H.]

Either nobody goes to hell, because it doesn't exist, or we're all screwed because Christianity isn't the only religion with a concept of eternal damnation for non-believers.

 

If you really want to irritate a Christian, just remind them that they're heathens to someone too.

[Lightmeow]

Either nobody goes to hell, because it doesn't exist, or we're all screwed because Christianity isn't the only religion with a concept of eternal damnation for non-believers.

 

If you really want to irritate a Christian, just remind them that they're heathens to someone too.

 

Or(let me whip out my Hitchhikers Guide), God says he is based on faith. Now man says, if god was true, then that would be proof. Then, proof denies faith, and without faith, there can be no god. 'I hadn't thought of that' says god as he promptly disappears in a puff of logic" Next, man goes to prove that dark is light, and gets himself run over in the next zebra crossing.

 

I love that book, it is probably my Bible...

[dimreepr]

 

Or(let me whip out my Hitchhikers Guide), God says he is based on faith. Now man says, if god was true, then that would be proof. Then, proof denies faith, and without faith, there can be no god. 'I hadn't thought of that' says god as he promptly disappears in a puff of logic" Next, man goes to prove that dark is light, and gets himself run over in the next zebra crossing.

 

I love that book, it is probably my Bible...

 

That particular argument was because the ‘babel fish’ was so improbable as to prove gods existence.

[Unity+]

He didn't say that about the clothing... And he was a priest...

I was saying that as a priest he should have just answered the way I did. But what do I know?

[pwagen]

I was saying that as a priest he should have just answered the way I did.

While a lot of the things you said probably makes sense from a religious point of view (and I'm not one to judge that), I take a little issue with this, as it's looking like a No True Scotsman fallacy.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

 

I don't think you (and I mean "you" in the most general way) can say anyone's religious practices, as religion in itself is so vague and general, any interpretation is as valid as any other. While you might say what you said about Heaven not being materialistic (which I think it likely isn't, should it exist), there's really no reason to dismiss other points of views.

 

Then she says, well, if you don't beleive in hell, you will go anyways. I wanted to ask her, do all of the isolated tribes go to hell just because they didn't believe in god.

Ask her if she's comfortable praising a god that sends people to Hell for not believing in him on bad evidence.

 

I said a few remarks about how stupid that was, then he exiled me from the church. Thus my hate of religion.

You were thrown out for questioning their beliefs, which is definitely not unheard of. However, while there are, in my opinion, lots of reason to dislike religion, hating it for not being able to answer questions and excluding you from their club shouldn't be one of them. Not the least because you're hopefully better off without a religion that skews your views on everything.

 

Now, you say you made "a few remarks on how stupid that was". Although I'm usually the first to jump on the religion bashing bandwagon, and I realize you were only 7 at the time, rudeness should rarely, if ever, be a part of the discourse.

 

Anyway, rant over. If you're looking for a religious perspective, Unity+'s answer is the way to go, despite my minor objection. If you're looking for a secular answer, it's really a moot question.

[Unity+]

While a lot of the things you said probably makes sense from a religious point of view (and I'm not one to judge that), I take a little issue with this, as it's looking like a No True Scotsman fallacy.

On an off topic, I tend to keep thinking over these kind of issues and still am thinking about this one. I take issue with the same thing you pointed out and still am trying to figure out and solve the issue.

 

It is based off the "From the lies, there exists the truth" philosophy, though it could be wrong.

[Tim the plumber]

Would you want to be in a place full of Christians?

[CharonY]

Like the USA?

[Phi for All]

What do people wear in heaven?

 

The only thing I remember from Bible scripture is that people will all wear a crown. I'm pretty sure the white robe image was assumed and popularized later, but the Bible definitely mentions five crowns that you work for on Earth to wear in heaven. I was never sure if you could earn all five or if it was one per customer.

 

And there's Revelations 3:11: "I am coming soon. Hold on to what you have, so that no one will take your crown."

 

So there's a nice image. Everyone walking around in heaven naked, admiring each other's crowns.

First, I was talking to a friend about what is wrong with homosexuals. I said I had nothing against them. She, also said she had nothing against them, but she didn't like the idea that they were going to hell. I replied to this, "Well, if they believe in hell". Then she says, well, if you don't beleive in hell, you will go anyways. I wanted to ask her, do all of the isolated tribes go to hell just because they didn't believe in god.

Do they?

 

I've asked this question before, slightly differently. Imagine an isolated tribe that's never heard of the Christian god or the Bible. This Bible says EVERYONE is subject to God's will, believer and non-believer alike. Is this tribe going to burn in hell for eternity just because nobody told them about this just and loving god?

 

I've heard all the apologist explanations for this and they all seem very... convenient. But not very trustworthy. I've even been told by an Evangelist that this is God's way of urging Christians to spread the Word, so these ignorant savages can enjoy the glory too. Maybe the Christian god is like a Marine Drill Instructor who punishes the whole platoon when one recruit messes up, so the rest will make sure he falls in line. God makes you run in full gear for eternity. Uphill. Through live fire.

[swansont]

Would you want to be in a place full of Christians?

 

 

!

Moderator Note

 

Before anyone goes there, don't

 

The OP asked some sincere, factual questions, and the discussion should be limited to that. Even as a rhetorical question it has negative implications, but it also could be taken as bait to lead the discussion astray. And neither one is going to be tolerated.

 

[Janus]

If you really want to irritate a Christian, just remind them that they're heathens to someone too.

Reminds me of a joke:

 

A guy dies and finds himself in Heaven. He is met by a guide who starts to show him around,and introduces him to some of the other people there. He meets a Catholic, Protestant, Unitarian, Muslim, Hindu, Buddhist, and others of different faiths. Then he notices a group of people standing off all by themselves and asks his guide about them. His guide replies "Oh, those are the Baptists, They think they're the only ones up here."

[`hýsøŕ]

So I just have a few quick questions about things that never quite made sense to me.

 

First, I was talking to a friend about what is wrong with homosexuals. I said I had nothing against them. She, also said she had nothing against them, but she didn't like the idea that they were going to hell. I replied to this, "Well, if they believe in hell". Then she says, well, if you don't beleive in hell, you will go anyways. I wanted to ask her, do all of the isolated tribes go to hell just because they didn't believe in god.

Do they?

 

And the next question that I am going to ask actually got me kicked out of church.

 

What do people wear in heaven? Then I asked the priest, are they naked. He said no because that was the first thing adam and eve figured out when they ate the apple. The second thing. Do they wear white robes. The priest said no. Then I asked, do they wear what they were wearing when they died? He said no. Then I said then what do they wear. He said he didn't know. I said a few remarks about how stupid that was, then he exiled me from the church. Thus my hate of religion.

 

Any one want to sheed some light on this????

 

You seem to be the type who could use getting kicked out of church lol. It's more a place for those who aren't a fan of asking questions or searching for understanding, so when one goes to a church and asks questions and tries to be as logical as possible, one gets kicked out. If they wanted logic and reason, they'd have left the church the hour they read some pages out of a bible.

[Lightmeow]

Oh, I was talking to another one of my friends, who goes to a catholic church. But she just goes because she is curious about it. I was talking to her about this, and she says she asks questions she knows they can't answer. She said she almost got exiled because she was talking about the corruption of the Catholic popes back in the day.

 

Just don't get why I got exiled when I was so young...

Edited May 4, 2014 by Lightmeow

[Phi for All]

Just don't get why I got exiled when I was so young...

 

It's pure luck.

 

The pony was free, you don't need to check the teeth.

[PeterJ]

Clothes in Heaven? Lol. Might as well have asked who manufactures the harp-strings. Some questions are just too naïve to have an answer.

[Tim the plumber]

I think that the Bible says that the number of people who enter the kingdom of God will be 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes of Israel. That's the lot.

 

If you are not in any of those tribes then unlucky your going to where ever the rest of us go or don't.

[PeterJ]

Hi Tim. I think you nicely make my previous point.

[MonDie]

 

 

[snipped]

Just don't get why I got exiled when I was so young...

They didn't want you corrupting the other youth.

 

---

 

[snipped]

 

Many people may disagree with me and I also take concern with the idea, but I relate the millions of religions that exist to "The Tower of Babel", where afterwords everyone at first seemed to understand each other under one common language, but then began to not able to understand each other and soon many languages were spoken(and this is not considering the truth of the story, but the main point). The idea is though people may believe in a different name of deity doesn't mean they don't have similar morals. Even I take concern on the philosophy and am careful with it because it can lead to certain issues, but at least consider it.

 

[/snipped]

 

More broadly, belief only applies to ideas. If I kick a rock that is granite, then I kicked granite. I could however beleive in the rock while simultaneously believing that the rock is coal. Why? I kick real objects, whereas I believe in ideas.

 

This raises some questions. If I believe in something that caused the universe and it just so happens that God caused the universe, do I believe in God? Where is the threshold—what attributes must my idea have? What about misattributions? Is it a sliding scale?

[ccwebb]

 

And there's Revelations 3:11: "I am coming soon. Hold on to what you have, so that no one will take your crown."

 

So there's a nice image. Everyone walking around in heaven naked, admiring each other's crowns.

 

You are not naked, nor are you wearing a crown. The word used in the Greek Bible was στέφανος or "Stephanos". Meaning a wreath, or more correct a reward. And the word "take" was λαμβάνω. This does not mean to steal, or remove from someone/something or forcefully own. It means for someone to receive. As in, someone else will receive your reward.

 

To answer the question about what we will wear:

1 Corinthians 15: 35-58

Paul the Apostle talks about how our earthly body is only a seed to our heavenly body and verse 49 states "And just as we have borne the image of the earthly man, so shall we bear the image of the heavenly man."

 

Then look at Philippians 3:20-21. "But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body."

 

I don't not know what we will be wearing physically, nor do I care. I do know that what ever form it will be in, it will be perfect, sinless.

 

 

[Acme]

So I just have a few quick questions about things that never quite made sense to me.

 

... I said a few remarks about how stupid that was, then he exiled me from the church. Thus my hate of religion.

 

Any one want to sheed some light on this????

You're just damn lucky it wasn't that stupid baldy Elija Elisha you were talking to. (Edit. My bad; the stupid baldy Elisha.)

 

2 Kings 2

...23 From there Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, some boys came out of the town and jeered at him. Get out of here, baldy! they said. Get out of here, baldy! 24 He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the Lord. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys. ...

Edited June 17, 2014 by Acme

[MonDie]

You're just damn lucky it wasn't that stupid baldy Elija you were talking to.

 

2 Kings 2

...23 From there Elisha went up to Bethel. As he was walking along the road, some boys came out of the town and jeered at him. Get out of here, baldy! they said. Get out of here, baldy! 24 He turned around, looked at them and called down a curse on them in the name of the Lord. Then two bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the boys. ...

 

Why do Christians who are not Roman Catholic have to accept the Bible's compilation of books as assembled by the early Roman Catholic Church? Can't they just be like "Meh, Kings. If I had assembled the Bible, there would be no such Kings."