Michael Sam's Kiss on NFL draft day

[john5746]

Michael Sam is the first openly gay man to enter the National Football League. He was drafted in the last round, so emotions were pretty high.

 

He cried and kissed his partner after hearing the good news. The kiss was appropriate - not overly done or anything. The type of kiss that straight guys and their girlfriends have with no issues expressed.

 

But, some players and others expressed outrage, using children viewers as an excuse.

 

I think it is especially great if children were watching, so they don't grow up ignorant.

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/ex-nfl-player-rips-espn-showing-michael-sam-kiss-article-1.1788608

 

What do you think? As long as the same actions are considered OK for a straight couple in front of children, shouldn't it be OK for gay couples?

Edited May 12, 2014 by john5746

[Phi for All]

What do you think? As long as the same actions are considered OK for a straight couple in front of children, shouldn't it be OK for gay couples?

 

No question about it. This type of kiss isn't about sex, it's about affection and happiness. IMO, the people expressing outrage are the ones harming children by making this about sex.

[Delta1212]

See enough men kiss and it loses it's novelty. I credit plowing through the first two seasons of Torchwood some years back with stamping out any latent feelings of awkwardness about seeing two men kiss that I had left from previous lack of exposure.

[CaptainPanic]

What do you think? As long as the same actions are considered OK for a straight couple in front of children, shouldn't it be OK for gay couples?

 

Of course it should be allowed. Personally, I'm all for gay rights, and that means treating it the same to the law, and no discrimination. That in turn means that kids get to see it. In the Netherlands, kids see gay couples on the streets, so why not on television? (I am not saying that they are constantly kissing on the streets, but it could happen, and nobody would object if it is just an affectionate kiss, without any sexual meaning).

 

At the same time, please let the outrage rage on a bit. It will take a society a while (read: decades) before it will totally accept this new freedom. While the law can be very black-and-white about something like gay rights, social acceptance is more subtle and requires much more time. It seems however that the USA is (slowly) moving in the right direction, although I am worried that some smaller groups of its population (the religious right wing) seems to move in an opposite direction, resulting in a more polarized society. But I must add the disclaimer that I actually know very little about the religious groups in the USA and I may be talking about either a stereotype or a very small minority. Also, it could be that they seem more present because they are are being forced into a defensive position in the discussion, because society changes around their conservative values, resulting in a lot more noise from them.

[swansont]

 

No question about it. This type of kiss isn't about sex, it's about affection and happiness. IMO, the people expressing outrage are the ones harming children by making this about sex.

 

I saw some tweets listing concepts harder to explain to kids (e.g. "school shootings" in one tweet, "How A Car Works - The Sun - Basically Everything That Happens In The Bible - Cameras" in another) than two men kissing.

[Greg H.]

This is how the conversation should go:

 

Kid: "Why are those two men kissing?"

Parent: "Because one of them just accomplished something very important and his partner is very happy for him."

 

I'm not sure why that is so hard for people to wrap their heads around.

[jduff]

Almost as bad as the transvestite with the beard winning the Eurovision contest! http://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/eurovision-2014-final-recap-conchita-3523443

 

What is the west coming to? Pretty sad state of affairs!

[Phi for All]

Almost as bad as the transvestite with the beard winning the Eurovision contest! http://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/eurovision-2014-final-recap-conchita-3523443

 

What is the west coming to? Pretty sad state of affairs!

 

I understand kneejerk reactions to those who don't do things the way your group does, but most of the replies have been extremely rational and reasonable. People kissing in this way aren't doing anything sexual, and it's not like you have to be married to kiss someone like this. Yet those who object object for sexual reasons, so if anyone is a pervert here, it's the conservatives who want their nose in your business.

 

We need to fund a study on whether conservatism, especially religion-based, anti-unacceptable-lifestyle conservatism, actually makes humans shorter. I can only conclude that these explanations are simply going over their heads.

[Acme]

Almost as bad as the transvestite with the beard winning the Eurovision contest! http://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/eurovision-2014-final-recap-conchita-3523443

 

What is the west coming to? Pretty sad state of affairs!

The question is what is the world going away from and the answer is bigotry.

[swansont]

The question is what is the world going away from and the answer is bigotry.

 

Slowly, at least. And not surely.

 

 

Human progress is neither automatic nor inevitable... Every step toward the goal of justice requires sacrifice, suffering, and struggle; the tireless exertions and passionate concern of dedicated individuals.

 

Martin Luther King, Jr.

[Acme]

 

The question is what is the world going away from and the answer is bigotry.

Slowly, at least. And not surely.

 

So it is. So it is not.

 

Human progress is neither automatic nor inevitable... Every step toward the goal of justice requires sacrifice, suffering, and struggle; the tireless exertions and passionate concern of dedicated individuals.

 

Martin Luther King, Jr.

Precisely why I posted.

 

The probability that we may fail in the struggle ought not to deter us from the support of a cause we believe to be just.

~ Abraham Lincoln ~

Edited May 12, 2014 by Acme

[jduff]

The question is what is the world going away from and the answer is bigotry.

World is a big place! Please refrain, you probably meant "the west". Which would be more appropriate. Otherwise you are just giving zealous exaggeration.

Edited May 12, 2014 by jduff

[Acme]

World is a big place! Please refrain, you probably meant "the west". Which would be more appropriate. Otherwise you are just giving zealous exaggeration.

I did not misspeak.

[jduff]

I did not misspeak.

Actually you have. If when speaking you are including Asia, the middle east, eastern Europe, parts of Africa. Which is what you stated when you said "WORLD". You misspoke in a big way. As I said exaggeration. You dont have to like what I said. As I noticed with the negative point. But honest is honest and exaggeration is exaggeration! Sorry!

Edited May 12, 2014 by jduff

[pwagen]

I'm amazed every time this is an issue. I can't help but feel just a touch of pride living in a country where, should the same thing happen, the headline would simply read "Michael Sam drafted in the last round". And that is if there would even be a headline. After all, are last round draftees really that exciting?

 

Also, public kissing can be just as sweet, and just as over the top vulgar, regardless of the genders involved. It doesn't matter if I see a same sex couple or a straight couple kissing - if their tongues are cleaning the other one's larynx - get a room!

 

Edit: To clarify, I also don't have any problems with people showing affection as described in the OP (haven't seen the actual kiss myself), as long as they don't go overboard.

Edited May 12, 2014 by pwagen

[StringJunky]

Almost as bad as the transvestite with the beard winning the Eurovision contest! http://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/eurovision-2014-final-recap-conchita-3523443

 

What is the west coming to? Pretty sad state of affairs!

it's as symbolically awesome as the US having a black president. Conchita Wurst (which means sausage} is actually a character the guy acts as as an ideological statement about accepting people for what they are and their many variations; gender and sexual.

[jduff]

I'm amazed every time this is an issue. I can't help but feel just a touch of pride living in a country where, should the same thing happen, the headline would simply read "Michael Sam drafted in the last round". And that is if there would even be a headline. After all, are last round draftees really that exciting?

 

Also, public kissing can be just as sweet, and just as over the top vulgar, regardless of the genders involved. It doesn't matter if I see a same sex couple or a straight couple kissing - if their tongues are cleaning the other one's larynx - get a room!

 

Edit: To clarify, I also don't have any problems with people showing affection as described in the OP (haven't seen the actual kiss myself), as long as they don't go overboard.

Exactly the point. The media sensationalized Sam and his lover kissing. More than the actual significant story of a openly gay man being drafted in the NFL. I agree with you concerning public kissing. It does not matter what type of couple it is. Over the top is over the top. Which I understand makes news stories.

 

Just as with the transvestite story. Media sensationalized that Conchita is a trans. More so than actually winning Eurovision.

 

Like I stated above. Bad state of affairs!

[Acme]

On the premise that bigotry has been a significant contributing factor to violence worldwide and throughout history, the historical worldwide reduction in violence is indicative of a reduction in bigotry as well.

 

Slow? Yes.

Sure? No.

Real? Yes.

 

Eileen FitzGerald: World is better than we think

 

Fareed Zakaria, a native of India hailed for his foreign policy expertise, spoke at the 361st commencement at Harvard University on May 24 making a speech so thought-provoking it merits sharing.

 

While there is space for only some of his thoughts, the entire speech can be seen on www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAj5oevN93k

 

Here is the perspective about the state of the world from the editor-at-large of Time magazine and host of CNN's "Fareed Zakaria GPS," who earned a doctor of philosophy degree in political science from Harvard.

 

..."Ever since 9/11, we have lived in an age of terror, and our lives remain altered by the fears of future attacks and a future of new threats and dangers.

 

"Then there are larger concerns that you hear about: The Earth is warming; we're running out of water and other vital resources; we have a billion people on the globe trapped in terrible poverty.

 

"So I want to sketch out for you, perhaps with a little bit of historical context, the world as I see it.

 

"The world we live in is, first of all, at peace -- profoundly at peace. The richest countries of the world are not in geopolitical competition with one another, fighting wars, proxy wars, or even engaging in arms races or `cold wars.'

 

"This is a historical rarity. You would have to go back hundreds of years to find a similar period of great power peace.

 

Moreover...

 

Contrary to appearances, social science statistics show a remarkable worldwide decline in violence

I am as appalled as most people by the astonishing amount of worldwide violence that is the daily staple of our news media. It seems as non-violent peacemaking efforts are few and far between and rarely seem to show dramatic successes. So I was surprised, impressed and heartened when I learned of statistical social science research that shows a historical decline in violence. An article by Seth Borenstein, AP Science Writer, drawing on research by Harvard social psychologist Steven Pinker, as well as others, summarizes the evidence for the trend toward less violence. Below are some excerpts

 

 

Thats the thesis of three new books, including one by prominent Harvard psychologist Steven Pinker. Statistics reveal dramatic reductions in war deaths, family violence, racism, rape, murder and all sorts of mayhem. In his book, Pinker writes: The decline of violence may be the most significant and least appreciated development in the history of our species. And it runs counter to what the mass media is reporting and essentially what we feel in our guts.

...

The rate of genocide deaths per world population was 1,400 times higher in 1942 than in 2008.

 

There were fewer than 20 democracies in 1946. Now there are close to 100. Meanwhile, the number of authoritarian countries has dropped from a high of almost 90 in 1976 to about 25 now.

...

The Human Security Report 2009/2010, a project led by Mack and funded by several governments, is a worldwide examination of war and violence and has been published as a book. It cites jarringly low numbers. While the number of wars has increased by 25 percent, theyve been minor ones.

 

The average annual battle death toll has dropped from nearly 10,000 per conflict in the 1950s to less than 1,000 in the 21st century. And the number of deadliest wars those that kill at least 1,000 people a year has fallen by 78 percent since 1988.

 

Mack and Goldstein emphasize how hard society and peacekeepers have worked to reduce wars, focusing on action taken to tamp down violence, while Pinker focuses on cultural and thought changes that make violence less likely. But all three say those elements are interconnected. Even the academics who disagree with Pinker, Goldstein and Mack, say the declining violence numbers are real.

...