Testing Alcubierre

[ydoaPs]

Recently it has been shown that Alcubierre drives can be created with orders of magnitude less energy than previously thought if they are done with the negative energy in a certain pattern.

 

In Alcubierre's original paper, he points out that the Casimir effect could perform the job of the negative energy:

 

We see then that, just as it happens with wormholes, one needs exotic matter to travel faster than the speed of light. However, even if one believes that exotic matter is forbidden classically, it is well known that quantum field theory permits the existence of regions with negative energy densities in some special circumstances (as, for example, in the Casimir effect [4]). The need of exotic matter therefore doesnt necessarily eliminate the possibility of using a spacetime distortion like the one described above for hyper-fast interstellar travel.

So, why hasn't there been small-scale tests using plates to try to get the required spacetime geometry using negative energy provided by the Casimir effect? Or have there been such tests? I suspect there haven't, otherwise it would have been bigger news and would have shown up in my search for material. So, there's got to be a reason.

 

Is is the rocket fuel problem? The more fuel you have, the more fuel you need (only this time with plates)?

[Mordred]

good articles, not sure on your question however I do have two other articles you will probably be interested in. This one discusses the risks involved in the Alcubierre drive. One statement in it is the potential to radiate the system you arrive at and left. Quite the eye opener. The attached article also discusses the possibility of the alcubierre drive without exotic materials.

 

http://arxiv.org/abs/1202.5708

Metamaterial-based model of the Alcubierre warp drive.pdf

[ydoaPs]

I knew about the hawking radiation and superluminal instability issue, but those are relatively recent discoveries. Alcubierre pointed out in his paper 20 years ago that Casimir energy would do the trick. No one in 20 years has tried.

 

Then again, they probably saw the energy requirements of the original paper design and thought it wasn't feasable. However, with the new design from White, a small scale might get some distortion.

 

I'll check out that paper for sure, though. Thanks.

[Moontanman]

I understand NASA is looking into it, I'll try to look up the papers, even if it doesn't work for FTL, which is where the radiation problems come in it would be fantastic to simply explore the solar system, 10% of the speed of light would be quite an improvement..

[xyzt]

Recently

The link is dead, it is most likely some practical joke or a hoax.

[Delta1212]

The link is dead, it is most likely some practical joke or a hoax.

Link works for me.

[John Cuthber]

The link is dead, it is most likely some practical joke or a hoax.

It works for me . Here's the abstract: searching for it might get you to a copy of the paper

Abstract:

This paper will begin with a short review of the Alcubierre warp drive metric and describes how the

phenomenon might work based on the original paper. The canonical form of the metric was developed

and published in [6] which provided key insight into the field potential and boost for the field which

remedied a critical paradox in the original Alcubierre concept of operations. A modified concept of

operations based on the canonical form of the metric that remedies the paradox is presented and

discussed. The idea of a warp drive in higher dimensional space-time (manifold) will then be briefly

considered by comparing the null-like geodesics of the Alcubierre metric to the Chung-Freese metric to

illustrate the mathematical role of hyperspace coordinates. The net effect of using a warp drive

“technology” coupled with conventional propulsion systems on an exploration mission will be discussed

using the nomenclature of early mission planning. Finally, an overview of the warp field interferometer

test bed being implemented in the Advanced Propulsion Physics Laboratory: Eagleworks (APPL:E) at the

Johnson Space Center will be detailed. While warp field mechanics has not had a “Chicago Pile” moment,

the tools necessary to detect a modest instance of the phenomenon are near at hand.

[xyzt]

It works for me . Here's the abstract: searching for it might get you to a copy of the paper

Abstract:

This paper will begin with a short review of the Alcubierre warp drive metric and describes how the

phenomenon might work based on the original paper. The canonical form of the metric was developed

and published in [6] which provided key insight into the field potential and boost for the field which

remedied a critical paradox in the original Alcubierre concept of operations. A modified concept of

operations based on the canonical form of the metric that remedies the paradox is presented and

discussed. The idea of a warp drive in higher dimensional space-time (manifold) will then be briefly

considered by comparing the null-like geodesics of the Alcubierre metric to the Chung-Freese metric to

illustrate the mathematical role of hyperspace coordinates. The net effect of using a warp drive

“technology” coupled with conventional propulsion systems on an exploration mission will be discussed

using the nomenclature of early mission planning. Finally, an overview of the warp field interferometer

test bed being implemented in the Advanced Propulsion Physics Laboratory: Eagleworks (APPL:E) at the

Johnson Space Center will be detailed. While warp field mechanics has not had a “Chicago Pile” moment,

the tools necessary to detect a modest instance of the phenomenon are near at hand.

Could you tell me the author, title and publication (if it was published)? Thank you.

[Mordred]

Warp Field Mechanics 101 Dr. Harold “Sonny” White

 

I've uploaded a copy to my website try it there make sure you have a pdf reader

 

http://cosmology101.wikidot.com/local--files/main/Warp%20Field%20Mechanics%20101%20Dr.%20Harold%20%E2%80%9CSonny%E2%80%9D%20White.pdf

[xyzt]

Warp Field Mechanics 101 Dr. Harold “Sonny” White

 

I've uploaded a copy to my website try it there make sure you have a pdf reader

 

http://cosmology101.wikidot.com/local--files/main/Warp%20Field%20Mechanics%20101%20Dr.%20Harold%20%E2%80%9CSonny%E2%80%9D%20White.pdf

Thank you, I suspected this must be the writeup, this isn't new, it has not been published in a peer reviewed journal and it has met with a lot of skepticism.

[Delta1212]

Thank you, I suspected this must be the writeup, this isn't new, it has not been published in a peer reviewed journal and it has met with a lot of skepticism.

I found a few references to it being accepted for publication by the Journal of the British Interplanetary Society last year, but I haven't been able to track down an actual publication date.

[ydoaPs]

Thank you, I suspected this must be the writeup, this isn't new, it has not been published in a peer reviewed journal and it has met with a lot of skepticism.

Your link doesn't show any skepticism about the math in the paper, just about the feasibility of carrying out a successful experiment. Have you seen papers showing that White's energy calculations are wrong?

 

Also, let's assume that they are wrong and you must have the 1994 paper's energy levels regardless of the field shape. Was Alcubierre wrong about being able to use the Casimir effect to provide the negative energy?

[xyzt]

Have you seen papers showing that White's energy calculations are wrong?

No, because White hasn't published in a peer reviewed journal in the first place.

Edited May 23, 2014 by xyzt

[ydoaPs]

No, because White hasn't published in a peer reviewed journal in the first place.

So the calculations magically don't exist to be examined? His papers are available on the NASA website and all over the internet.

[xyzt]

So the calculations magically don't exist to be examined?

You asked if I have seen "papers showing that White's energy calculations are wrong". I answered.

[Moontanman]

Here is a link to the latest information.

 

http://www.space.com/17628-warp-drive-possible-interstellar-spaceflight.html

[ydoaPs]

You asked if I have seen "papers showing that White's energy calculations are wrong". I answered.

You answered with a reason that holds less water than a colander.

Here is a link to the latest information.

 

http://www.space.com/17628-warp-drive-possible-interstellar-spaceflight.html

Thank you. I'm looking at it now.

Edit/update: I've already seen that press release. Thanks for looking, though.

[Mordred]

Its just a review paper, its not introducing anything that isn't in the original peer review paper, that isn't in this paper.

 

http://arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/0009013

or this one

http://arxiv.org/abs/1009.5663

 

besides its a NASA published paper, I'd say that gives it some credence considering all the scientists they have working for them

 

for that matter why would NASA want to publish its test results? Ever heard of security? They wouldn't want the details published until they have a working drive

 

edit forgot to add, NASA probably won't even tell you which scientists are working on the project, the name on that paper is probably just some NASA public relations editor. For something like this all the scientists would have to have a security clearance

Edited May 23, 2014 by Mordred

[Spyman]

...the name on that paper is probably just some NASA public relations editor...

Harold G. "Sonny" White is a mechanical engineer, aerospace engineer and physicist who is the Advanced Propulsion Team Lead for the NASA Engineering Directorate and is known for proposing new Alcubierre drive concepts and promoting advanced propulsion projects, under development at the NASA Johnson Space Center, including the first practical experiment to demonstrate the existence of Alcubierre drive effects.

NASA file photo of Harold Sonny White

taken by Robert Markowitz.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_G._White_(NASA)

 

 

 

So, why hasn't there been small-scale tests using plates to try to get the required spacetime geometry using negative energy provided by the Casimir effect? Or have there been such tests? I suspect there haven't, otherwise it would have been bigger news and would have shown up in my search for material. So, there's got to be a reason.

Interferometer experiment

The original device proposed by White after finding the energy-decreasing possibilities (see theoretical framework) is a modified Michelson interferometer that uses a λ = 633 nm beam from a helium-neon laser. The beam is split into two paths, with the space warping device placed in or near one beam path. The space warp would induce a relative phase shift between the split beams that should be detectable, provided that the magnitude of the phase shift created by the change in apparent path length is sufficient. By using 2D analytic signal processing, the magnitude and phase of the field can be extracted for study and comparison to theoretical models. The researchers first tried to see if the space warping by the electric-field energy of an extremely-high-voltage (up to 20kV) ring (0.5 cm radius) of high-κ barium titanate ceramic capacitors could be detected. After the first tests the experiment was moved to a seismically isolated lab due to very high interference that was already caused by people walking outside the room. The current goals are to increase sensitivity up to one hundredth of a wavelength and implement the oscillating field in order to get definite results.

 

Results

White announced the first results of his interferometer experiment at a 2013 space conference. According to White, these results showed a vanishing but non-zero difference between charged and uncharged states after signal processing, but this difference remains inconclusive due to external interference and limits in the computational processing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WhiteJuday_warp-field_interferometer

Edited May 23, 2014 by Spyman

[Mordred]

ah thanks.