Why Forgive?

[MigL]

'Probably in our nature ' ??

 

That's the point I've been trying to make all along.

It IS in our nature, as we are but animals with an instinctive nature to strike back at sources of pain and discomfort.

( the only reason Dekan's cat doesn't strike back when he steps on its tail, is because it knows who fills its food bowl, I know, I have two cats )

 

It is only through what I will call enlightenment, whether that be through religion, a sense of community, or social justice, that we learn to suppress this instinct.

[2501]

 

That's the point I've been trying to make all along.

 

I'm sorry if I missed your earlier posts on this subject, MigL, it was my honest mistake. I'll have you know, however, there are better ways of getting your point across other than screaming.

 

Quite frankly, I only bothered to give my two cents in this thread because I thought there was potential to discuss the psychology and/or science behind it, and to learn a thing or two about the different approaches. Otherwise I'll let you carry on...

[dimreepr]

When I realised the following:

 

 

1 The illusion of understanding

2 The illusion of control

3 The illusion of expectation

4 The illusion of need

5 The illusion of time

I understood the value of forgiveness.

[MigL]

I apologize for the capital letters, 2501.

Didn't mean to yell, was only trying to emphasize.

 

Next time will use italics or bold.

[dreamer.]

people who are strong forgive.

[Dekan]

people who are strong forgive.

Yes, strong people sometimes forgive weak people. This probably arises from two motivations:

 

1. When you're strong, you may feel confident that your weak adversary doesn't, at present, dare to hit back at you. So you can safely forgive them.

2. And by forgiving, you experience a glow of self-satisfaction. Which massages your vanity.

 

But - if you forgive them - how can you sure they won't perceive such forgiveness as a sign of your own weakness. And so be encouraged to attack you again.

 

Therefore, isn't it better from your strong point of view - not to forgive, but to take harsher measures?

[Delta1212]

Yes, strong people sometimes forgive weak people. This probably arises from two motivations:

 

1. When you're strong, you may feel confident that your weak adversary doesn't, at present, dare to hit back at you. So you can safely forgive them.

2. And by forgiving, you experience a glow of self-satisfaction. Which massages your vanity.

 

But - if you forgive them - how can you sure they won't perceive such forgiveness as a sign of your own weakness. And so be encouraged to attack you again.

 

Therefore, isn't it better from your strong point of view - not to forgive, but to take harsher measures?

You're treating the interactions as if they were solely between two parties. Humans being the social animals we are, there is almost always going to be an audience. Harsh punishment may wind up angering relatives and friends of the punished, even if it renders that individual or group incapable of personally retaliating.

 

And groups who need to deal with you in the future or fear they may someday find themselves at your mercy may resist cooperating with you or actively work against you, essentially creating more enemies for yourself than you are eliminating.

 

Of course, harsh punishment can also act as a deterrent to resistance by other potential threats just as mercy can be perceived as weakness to be exploited by new enemies.

 

There are pros and cons to both behaviors, which makes sense since if there was one behavior that always got the best results over the other one, humans would probably just do that one instead of having an on-going conflict between the two strategies in how we treat others.

[dimreepr]

This helps my case.

[jebaqpt]

Forgiveness makes us to live peace throughout our life. Even if that incident may not vanishes but years later soon it will vanishes and oneday if you think about the incident you'll laugh within yourself. But if you are not forgiving anyone then till your death it will hurt you. You can't forget the incident and person who hurts you.

A famous saying that tells about forgiving LEARN TO WRITE YOUR HURTS IN THE SAND AND TO CARVE YOUR BENEFITS IN STONE."

Edited May 6, 2015 by hypervalent_iodine
Advertising link removed

[iNow]

This seems relevant:

 

Holding on to anger is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die. ~Buddha

 

 

Also:

 

[michael7858]

Forgiveness is a gift like any other. If someone has forgiveness in them which is infallible then they are extremely gifted.

An unusual ability to understand people and their behaviour whatever that behaviour is, usually coincides with an incredible ability to forgive.

For every action there is a cause. For every behaviour there is a cause. This cause can sometimes be out of thehands of the individual who may be behaving inappropriately. For this reason these particular individuals should not be blamed for their actions.

Behaviour is however a matter of choice but even the particular choice is dependant on factors which have as their source a cause which is or was not chosen.

The knowledge of behaviour and cause of behaviour which sometimes is not a matter of choice and even if the behaviour itself is a matter of choice is usually the knowledge and more importantly the understanding of that knowledge of someone who has an unusual ability to forgive.

[mastercarrot]

It´s a way to feel better.

A way to let go of those memories and focus on more positive subjects. Otherwise you would be wasting your time thinking about what happened in the past or what they did to you.

 

Forgiveness doesn´t mean that you have to keep in touch with people you don´t like.

It doesn´t mean you are not gonna learn from your mistakes.

 

Everbody makes mistakes and sometimes hurts other people.

 

Jesus said, "Father, forgive them; for they do not know what they are doing."

 

That phrase has helped me a lot. What do you get by being angry at stupid people anyway? They didn´t know how to do it any better.

[dimreepr]

If you want to contribute to this thread maybe you should read it first.

[Phi for All]

Jesus said, "Father, forgive them; for they do not know what they are doing."

 

That phrase has helped me a lot. What do you get by being angry at stupid people anyway? They didn´t know how to do it any better.

 

I can forgive someone for being ignorant, but once that ignorance is pointed out, why should I forgive them for perpetuating ignorance, for not doing something about it? Even Jesus expected ignorant people to improve, otherwise Christianity would have little to do.

 

Sometimes anger can show another person that they've done something wrong. I don't believe people are stupid, but I believe people do and think stupid things, and I believe they should never stop learning to correct this behavior.

[dimreepr]

 

I can forgive someone for being ignorant, but once that ignorance is pointed out, why should I forgive them for perpetuating ignorance, for not doing something about it? Even Jesus expected ignorant people to improve, otherwise Christianity would have little to do.

 

Sometimes anger can show another person that they've done something wrong. I don't believe people are stupid, but I believe people do and think stupid things, and I believe they should never stop learning to correct this behavior.

 

 

Add to this, my thoughts in post #10 and you can see why reading first is necessary to contribute.

 

Btw +1

“There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self” -Earnest Hemmingway.

[mastercarrot]

If you want to contribute to this thread maybe you should read it first.

 

I wrote my opinion on forgiveness related to some of the posts I read before.

[dimreepr]

 

I wrote my opinion on forgiveness related to some of the posts I read before.

 

 

My apologies, however, your post had previously been answered so I hope you can forgive my assumptions.

[mastercarrot]

 

I can forgive someone for being ignorant, but once that ignorance is pointed out, why should I forgive them for perpetuating ignorance, for not doing something about it? Even Jesus expected ignorant people to improve, otherwise Christianity would have little to do.

 

Sometimes anger can show another person that they've done something wrong. I don't believe people are stupid, but I believe people do and think stupid things, and I believe they should never stop learning to correct this behavior.

 

I guess it´s their choice to do something about it once that ignorance is pointed out.

Some people would accept their mistakes after someone shows them they've done something wrong. It would be nice if people were willing to learn how to correct their behaviour. Some of them are.

[Pat Hagar]

To forgive can be easy or impossible depending on many things. Whither you can forgive or not should not ruin anyones life. The only way I know to work through it is to ignore it, at least until the immediate strong feelings grow less and time will help that. If possible do not put yourself into any situitation that will comtinue thoughts of it.

 

Respectfully,

Pat Hagar

[dimreepr]

To forgive can be easy or impossible depending on many things. Whither you can forgive or not should not ruin anyones life. The only way I know to work through it is to ignore it, at least until the immediate strong feelings grow less and time will help that. If possible do not put yourself into any situitation that will comtinue thoughts of it.

 

Respectfully,

Pat Hagar

 

 

 

The only thing it depends on is the choice you make.

[mastercarrot]

Pat wrote about ignoring it. In a way that´s like letting those emotions disappear and focus on something else.

[iNow]

As evidenced recently in Charleston, we often forgive to retake our power over horrendous situations; to ensure we decide for ourselves what to feel and don't surrender that power to some misguided other.

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2015/06/19/i-forgive-you-relatives-of-charleston-church-victims-address-dylann-roof/

[Harold Squared]

 

 

 

 

You may find revenge pleasurable but would you find the retaliation for your revenge pleasurable?

 

Are you suggesting a human (a social animal) is equivalent to a cougar (a solitary animal)?

 

Maybe I should have lead with this but; If you dont like the topic dont post.

Humans are mammals as are cougars and wolves, and social animals like wolves. Less harmoniously social than nearly any other such creatures but paradoxically living in larger groups than the great majority of them.

 

Do ants need "forgiveness"? Do wolves? They are destitute of morality but do not murder their own kind with anything like the frequency and zeal of humans.

[dimreepr]

What's tour point (on topic)?

[Gorototh]

i don't believe you ever can truly forgive someone if they hurt you strongly. A daughter can never truly forgive her mother for abusing her physically. The families of murdered children never forgive the murderer. A child may forgive his friend for stealing his lollipop.

It certainly depends on the gravity of the act, but because of the fact that things that impact you cannot be easily forgotten, therefore it is hard to truly forgive, the definition of forgiveness is mostly seen throughout biblical interpretations, which state to offer a sacrifice, to lose something of yourself out of human compassion in order to forgive someone. And that I must say is utterly useless and you do not have to forgive everybody that hurts you. It is your choice to make and shouldn't be tied to anyone else's point of view.