Probes Travelling Out of the Solar System? Fuel Problem Resolved?

[Nicholas Kang]

For long scientists are looking into some economical ways to send unmanned probes to explore the extrasolar space. Now, I think this idea is a good one.

 

Here is my proposal. First, set up a probe by usual methods and procedures just excluding the power supply unit. Next, design the power supply unit. This power supply unit is something new. It is a long but slim system. You have to stock up a certain amount of fuel, let`s say ion or xenon ion which is used by the Japanese probe Hayabusa(if I am not mistaken). The xenon ion is stored in a container or tank. Then, prepare a long pipe with 2 generators or dynamos. The size of the generator or dynamos depend on the size of your probe. Attach the pipe onto the opening of the tank where the fuel is stored. Install the 2 generators on both sides of the opening(left and right). Next, at the end of the pipe, fix another pipe(I call it the recycling pipe). The end of the pipe is fix to the storage tank. Remember to install a pump inside the xenon ion fuel tank to force the ion to burst out at high speed.

 

This is how my proposal works. when the probe is started. The pump in the xenon ion fuel tank will start to pump the ion out at high speed. The ion will push the dynamo as it move through the pipe(The diameter of the pipe must be suitable to provide enough pressure for the ion to move through the narrow path, thus forcing the dynamos to spin). The dynamos then provide electricity to the probe. The xenon ion is then recycled after passing through the first pipe(where the dynamos are placed). The xenon ion is recycled through the second pipe back to the storage tank and it is then pumped again to push the dynamos which mean the cycle is repeated. No xenon ion is wasted to the surrounding.

 

There is also a second benefit. If certain modification is done, the xenon ion can also be used as a thrust to provide movement to the probe. You are killing two birds with one stone!

 

Of course, there are several aspects need further research, including the consequences of leakage of both pipes.

 

Anyway, I hope my idea will be considered deeply and throughout by NASA. Thank you.

 

Edit: I had improved my ideas as you can see in the new diagram. The diagram is not drawn to scale and in 2D. In true 3D world, there must be slight differences from the diagram above. In my new diagram, the generators are placed just near the openings of the thruster. When the ions are fired, they are forced to spin the dynamos located at both the left and right side of the openings. Of course, the openings must be in suitable size to produce high pressure and the dynamos must be placed in correct positions to ensure highest efficiency of energy production. The ions will eventually be captured by an absorber. The absorber will look like a giant dish or antenna, many times larger than the openings of the thruster. Then, as the ions scatters throughout the space, they will be absorbed by the absorber. If possible, placed a pump to pump the ions into the recycling pipes. The ions will finally be directed back to the ion tank. The process will repeat. For safety purpose, 2 doors or gates can be placed between the tank and the pipes to control the amount of ions flowing.

Edited May 31, 2014 by Nicholas Kang

[John Cuthber]

I think NASA are well enough acquainted with the laws of physics to know that your idea will not (and can never) work.

[Nicholas Kang]

I think NASA are well enough acquainted with the laws of physics to know that your idea will not (and can never) work.

Can you please tell me why?

As I have said, this is just a basic model. I do need someone`s assistance to improve my idea. I welcome any critics, comments and suggestion from the scientific community. Finally, I have to emphasize the fact that I am just 15 years old and still studying in secondary school. I am limited to my own knowledge. I will try my best to cope with the latest scientific knowledge.

 

Thanks.

[John Cuthber]

Have you studied the principle of the conservation of momentum?

 

Essentially, you can't push the ship forward without throwing something out of the back.

 

You accelerate the Xe along the first pipe L to R and that produces a reaction force to the left which acts on the probe to move it to the left.

However you have forgotten to take account of the fact that when the Xe hits the right hand end where the first and recycling pipes meet, the Xe pushes on that joint . That tends to move the craft to the right.

The two forces will exactly cancel out and the ship won't move (strictly speaking it will spin about an axis perpendicular to the drawing but that's not very helpful)

 

This thread
http://www.scienceforums.net/topic/82875-non-mass-expulsion-type-thruster/?hl=dijinj#entry803224
was based on a similar idea.

Unfortunately the guy who came up with it refused to listen to reason and tried to insist that it would work.

For what it's worth, there's some maths that proves it is impossible, but he wasn't convinced by that so the thread went on wasting time for ages.

Edited May 31, 2014 by John Cuthber

[Nicholas Kang]

Ok now, I will improve my ideas. Wait for a while.

[Janus]

Another point is that even disregarding the thrust issue, such a system cannot provide electric power for the probe. Even if the dynamos and pumps were 100% efficient, the dynamos could only provide enough electricity to run the pumps. The dynamos work by converting some of the kinetic energy of the moving gas into electricity. But in doing so they slow the gas down. The gas gives up speed/kinetic energy to the dynamo. In order for the pump to speed the gas back up it uses energy. The energy it needs to use can be no less than the energy it puts back into the gas in speeding it up again. IOW, any energy converted to electricity by the dynamos needs to be put back into the gas by the pumps and they will use at least that much electricity to do so.

 

In reality, the dynamos can never convert all the energy of the Xe into electricity and the pumps can never use all the energy in the electricity to speed the Xe back up again, so you will never even have enough to keep the system running.

 

This is a fundamental fact of nature and there is no way around it.

[Nicholas Kang]

Now, I have thought of a new idea. I will post it in my new post regarding this issue.