Renewable Energy Source Quantum Leap- Solar Panel in Space

[Nicholas Kang]

We always think of using green renewable energy source as a future energy source to overcome the current energy crisis. My question in instead of building solar panels on Earth, why don`t we just build giant solar panels in space, facing directly towards sun and not effected by day and night (only when solar storm occurs). It sounds good, isn`t?

[Endy0816]

Space-based solar power(for ground usage) is possible, though in practical terms there would be a number of issues with implementation.

 

If you are talking just in general, we already have solar panels in space for powering such things as our satellites and space station.

[Nicholas Kang]

I mean we build huge huge huge solar panels, maybe a quarter of the size of earth, or even the size of earth despite the time taken. The solar panels would have powered almost everything on earth. I mean looking the whole story on a large scale, not just limited in small or medium sized satellite.

Edited June 1, 2014 by Nicholas Kang

[ajb]

The idea of solar panels in space is quite old now. One proposal was then to use masers to "beam" the energy Earth.

 

The problem with just scaling this up as you suggest could be a practical one. Do we have materials suitable to make such a large panel in space and even then will we have a problem with space junk?

[John Cuthber]

The simplest problem is that it's generally more expensive to launch something into space than to make it from gold.

Also, it's on earth that we need power so generating it somewhere else is not ideal.

Setting up panels in the deserts would be much cheaper and the maintenance is easier too.

[Nicholas Kang]

The simplest problem is that it's generally more expensive to launch something into space than to make it from gold.

Also, it's on earth that we need power so generating it somewhere else is not ideal.

Setting up panels in the deserts would be much cheaper and the maintenance is easier too.

 

How many deserts can you have on Earth? It is true that it is expensive to launch something to space. But if we are willing I mean every nation shares the money, you don`t have excuse, for example the ISS is a great example, do you? Yet, your topic remind me of one possible alternative to launch something to space. You can`t expect engineers to immigrate to deserts just to repair giant solar panels, can you?

[pwagen]

I mean every nation shares the money

Yeah, that'll happen.

 

for example the ISS is a great example

The ISS is also multitudes smaller as a project than what you're suggesting. And even with all the countries involved, I don't know that the budget would allow a whole lot of luxury up there. Also, aside from financial problems, the issue of material availability has been mentioned. It doesn't matter if every nation works together on this, if there are not enough raw material to make the solar panels.

[Nicholas Kang]

You are right, pwagen. One important point: Only 16 countries are involved in the ISS project. Now, it is time for all countries.

[John Cuthber]

 

How many deserts can you have on Earth? It is true that it is expensive to launch something to space. But if we are willing I mean every nation shares the money, you don`t have excuse, for example the ISS is a great example, do you? Yet, your topic remind me of one possible alternative to launch something to space. You can`t expect engineers to immigrate to deserts just to repair giant solar panels, can you?

It's possible that, if the worlds nations got together, they could pay for this.

But why would they?

It's easier, better and cheaper to put the solar panels on earth.

 

The figures here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_energy_consumption

suggest that the world currently uses something like 150000 TW Hrs of energy in a year.

That's about 17 TW of power.

Each square metre of the earth's surface receives about 1 KW from the sun

So the Earth's power requirements are equivalent to something like 17 billion square metres of sunshine.

That's roughly a square 130 Km on each side

So, that's less than 1 % of this desert

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gobi_Desert

or this one

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sahara

So, even allowing for the less than 100% conversion efficiency, we have plenty of desert.

You should have done that arithmetic before you asked

"How many deserts can you have on Earth?"

Why didn't you?

[Nicholas Kang]

Important points:

1. Please suggest ways to overcome if wars happen in these deserts. In Gobi Desert, it might still quite safe but that doesn`t mean it will always be safe, especially since China had risen up and the northern autonomy territory racial problem haven`t been solved.

 

2. Please provide me the most efficient battery composition to store huge amount of energy if one day your power plant fails to work or needed to be used during night.

 

3. Please suggest is there any more efficient ways to transmit your electricity throughout the world across continents and vast ocean. Have you ever think of the environment impacts on aquatic organism and desert flora and fauna?

 

4. Please tell me how would you manage your desert power plant. if your power plant is built at Gobi Desert, no matter Mongolia and China. One day, war happens, China just have to shut down the power plant and we are gone?

 

5. Not yet gone, never mind. Still have backup plans? Do share with all of us.

 

6. The most efficient solar panel is no more than 50%

http://cleantechnica.com/2014/02/02/which-solar-panels-most-efficient/

 

7. How are you going to pay for the lost of the nomads in the deserts? How much and how?

 

8. Who is going to be responsible for the power plan operation and maintenance?

 

10. If your EPA does not suit the needs of both deserts` country government and the project is banned, then how?

 

11. If you are right, then why don`t you suggest your project to the UN. Maybe they are interested in your ideas?

 

Good luck.

[pwagen]

Important points:

1. Please suggest ways to overcome if wars happen in these deserts. In Gobi Desert, it might still quite safe but that doesn`t mean it will always be safe, especially since China had risen up and the northern autonomy territory racial problem haven`t been solved.

 

2. Please provide me the most efficient battery composition to store huge amount of energy if one day your power plant fails to work or needed to be used during night.

 

3. Please suggest is there any more efficient ways to transmit your electricity throughout the world across continents and vast ocean. Have you ever think of the environment impacts on aquatic organism and desert flora and fauna?

 

4. Please tell me how would you manage your desert power plant. if your power plant is built at Gobi Desert, no matter Mongolia and China. One day, war happens, China just have to shut down the power plant and we are gone?

No, no, no. This thread isn't about what would happen to terrestrial solar power plants if war broke out, or if the Sun sets. It seems obvious that we CAN make use of solar power, as we do it all the time. That's not the issue here, at all.

 

If you want to discuss what would happen to a solar plant the size of which John Cuthber suggested, should war breark out, you could, but not before you explain why your orbital power plant would be better, cheaper, more convenient, and work. Because as of now, is there really any good way to actually bring that power down to Earth? War on Earth, sure, but what would happen to your plant if hit by space debris or asteroids? How would you repair it? What would that cost?

 

7. How are you going to pay for the lost of the nomads in the deserts? How much and how?

 

8. Who is going to be responsible for the power plan operation and maintenance?

Questions you might as well ask yourself. Sending stuff to space is expensive.

[Nicholas Kang]

You are right, by the way. Let me ask you one question: Are you human?

Your answer must be yes.

Human life must be complicated and can never be simple like plant which just make minor movement.

I know it is not the issue here, at all. But would it happen? Yes, definitely yes! As long as you live on Earth!

What can happen, it can be discussed.

Moreover, it is related to the topic-solar power plant.

I can safely assumed it is a cons of building huge solar power plants on Earth, can`t I?

 

Why my orbital solar power plant can be better, cheaper, more convenient and work? Because there is Sun! No Sun, no orbital power plant. I am just kidding actually. Here is why

 

1. Better

You know, in space there is no air resistance(neglecting ISM objects). Thus it must be safe to wander around space. Think of cosmic rays? No problem, if it is a problem, Voyager 1 can`t be more than 19 billion km or over 141 AU from us right now. Think of asteroids and meteorites? No problem, any possible methods can be implemented. Moreover, most meteorites and asteroids are actually evaporated as they fly near the sun (only if your probe is highly heat resistance, you can survive). Think of who operating it? Of course the UN, which is neutral. I don`t think anyone has objection to my suggestion.

 

2. Cheaper

Actually, the larger the solar cell, the closer the cells to the sun, the cheaper it is. You see, the total output of the solar radiations is very high. This would indeed offset your high cost of building such a huge solar station. There are 7 billion people in the world. There must be more than enough. A bonus to this project is installing EM towers on the stations and a receiver on your electronic gadgets.This mean no matter where you are, as long as you have a EM Energy Receiver, you don`t have to wait till you get back home and only then start to charge you gadgets. Electricity directly from space(Sun) to your gadgets.

 

3. More Convenient

Of course, you don`t want the possible scenarios in the above post happen. So, build solar stations in space is better. People leaving in the desert areas will be more convenient instead of seeing themselves homeless due to usage of lands to build solar stations. People become convenient because of the added bonus. Everything become instant.

 

4. Work

i want to emphasize the fact that it is true that sending something into space is expensive. But technology shall bring down the cost. According the Moore`s Law, the number of transistors on integrated circuits doubles approximately every two years. So, how would space transport continue to become expansive. The trend must go down not up. So, why cannot work? Just set your foot down and go ahead.

[pwagen]

You seem to assume the plant would be placed near the Sun. How then, would you get the power to Earth?

 

Moore's law isn't really relevant, as the obstacles isn't in computer capacity. You could probably control a simple satellite with a smart phone which costs a fraction of the total cost of launching a space shuttle. Materials and fuel is what's really stopping us.

[swansont]

 

i want to emphasize the fact that it is true that sending something into space is expensive. But technology shall bring down the cost. According the Moore`s Law, the number of transistors on integrated circuits doubles approximately every two years. So, how would space transport continue to become expansive. The trend must go down not up. So, why cannot work? Just set your foot down and go ahead.

 

People have been going into space for quite some time. Surely there are data one could consult to see how true this is, rather than waving one's hands and quoting Moore's law, which does not apply.

[Sensei]

We always think of using green renewable energy source as a future energy source to overcome the current energy crisis.

 

What "current energy crisis"?

 

Renewable energy sources are introduced to reduce CO₂ production to atmosphere, not because there is not enough energy.

 

Actually everybody wastes a lot of energy. On transmission to client. On transformation from high voltage to low voltage (and vice versa). See how hot are electronic devices. They should/could have ambient temperature.

In true crisis, everybody will be paying attention to every kW of energy used, buying devices that use as less as possible energy.

In true crisis, everybody will have their own solar panels.

 

Couple floor building have a lot of space to cover it by solar panels from all sides, and produce much more energy than the all people who live inside are using.

But it would be bankruptcy of power station business.

 

My question in instead of building solar panels on Earth, why don`t we just build giant solar panels in space, facing directly towards sun and not effected by day and night (only when solar storm occurs). It sounds good, isn`t?

 

Have you idea how to transfer energy from orbit to Earth surface to actually use it?

[swansont]

See how hot are electronic devices. They should/could have ambient temperature.

 

 

The laws of thermodynamics require that objects be hotter than the surroundings in order to shed heat, and must have heat to shed in order to work. So there's no avoiding this. Mobile devices are engineered for efficiency because they run on batteries. Probably not a lot of fat to cut here.

[Nicholas Kang]

First of all, You are right, Sensei! No such thing current energy crisis. Yeah, no such thing. Yeppy! No such thing! What if? What if? If this happens in the future? Are you sure it won`t happen in the future. Yes, it won`t, said firmly and steadily? Only if you are God. The rise of Asia with the most population on Earth by continent and more people are using energy day after day but the current energy source most of us relying on is depleting as time passes by. It won`t happen today, neither tomorrow, nor the day after tomorrow, but no guarantee for 2 days after tomorrow.

 

Next, good question. Really a good one. Both Sensei and pwagen asked me how to bring the power obtained from the sun and transmit it back to mother Earth? No problem. Here is how. (Only a hypothesis, maybe I need pwagen and Sensei`s help to accomplish my dream. Yeah, just kidding but serious. Who knows one day it will happen?)

 

Methods:

1. Do refer to the thread

Is it possible to use electromagnetic radiation or EM wave to store and carry energy?

I actually came up with this idea before I post this thread. My rough idea is to use EM wave to transmit electricity back to Earth. By the way, I welcome both Sensei and pwagen to propose their ideas if they want to do so. Learn to share. Share to Learn.

 

Thanks.

 

Regards,

 

Nicholas Kang

[Sensei]

If this happens in the future?

 

Problem will be when the all people of the world will use more energy than Sun produces per day (and reaches our planet surface).

And no more fossil or nuclear fuels will be available.

 

But if all fossil fuels will be burned, air will have a lot of CO₂ , which can be taken back by algae, or other vegetables.

 

Methods:

1. Do refer to the thread

Is it possible to use electromagnetic radiation or EM wave to store and carry energy?

I actually came up with this idea before I post this thread. My rough idea is to use EM wave to transmit electricity back to Earth. By the way, I welcome both Sensei and pwagen to propose their ideas if they want to do so. Learn to share. Share to Learn.

 

I have suspicion that you have no idea what is electromagnetic radiation..

 

This sounds like saying "Nicholas Kang invented sun, stars and light"..

Edited June 2, 2014 by Sensei

[Phi for All]

I think a space-based solar array is in our future, but right now we've got quite a few more economical options. And one major problem: We'd need to transfer the power gathered back to Earth without actually going back to Earth. And the geopolitical climate just isn't going to allow any single country to build something in space that could potentially send that kind of energy anywhere their leaders wished. The potential for abuse will probably keep this on the drawing boards for some time to come.

Methods:
1. Do refer to the thread
Is it possible to use electromagnetic radiation or EM wave to store and carry energy?
I actually came up with this idea before I post this thread. My rough idea is to use EM wave to transmit electricity back to Earth. By the way, I welcome both Sensei and pwagen to propose their ideas if they want to do so. Learn to share. Share to Learn.

Unofficially, don't do this anymore. It's basically using one thread to advertise another, and that's not cool. Thanks for understanding.

[John Cuthber]

Important points:

1. Please suggest ways to overcome if wars happen in these deserts. In Gobi Desert, it might still quite safe but that doesn`t mean it will always be safe, especially since China had risen up and the northern autonomy territory racial problem haven`t been solved.

 

2. Please provide me the most efficient battery composition to store huge amount of energy if one day your power plant fails to work or needed to be used during night.

 

3. Please suggest is there any more efficient ways to transmit your electricity throughout the world across continents and vast ocean. Have you ever think of the environment impacts on aquatic organism and desert flora and fauna?

 

4. Please tell me how would you manage your desert power plant. if your power plant is built at Gobi Desert, no matter Mongolia and China. One day, war happens, China just have to shut down the power plant and we are gone?

 

5. Not yet gone, never mind. Still have backup plans? Do share with all of us.

 

6. The most efficient solar panel is no more than 50%

http://cleantechnica.com/2014/02/02/which-solar-panels-most-efficient/

 

7. How are you going to pay for the lost of the nomads in the deserts? How much and how?

 

8. Who is going to be responsible for the power plan operation and maintenance?

 

10. If your EPA does not suit the needs of both deserts` country government and the project is banned, then how?

 

11. If you are right, then why don`t you suggest your project to the UN. Maybe they are interested in your ideas?

 

Good luck.

1 Not applicable. You have made an assumption which is invalid.

2 Same as 1

3 Exactly the same way that you plan to transmit it from space- but I have an easier job because I can fix problems and probably won't need to transfer the power as far.

4 same as 1

5 same as 1

6 So, it's just as inefficient when you use it in space as when I use it on Earth.

7 If we are talking about building infrastructure of this sort the costs will be huge. Paying off the nomads wouldn't be a problem. But the real answer is that we won't be depriving them of very much- see point 1.

8 exactly the same people as would look after it in space (well- actually you can use cheaper people).

9 There is no Q 9

10 build them so they do meet the local regulations and laws

11 Why bother? Again, you have made a big assumption and it is the reason for most of the problems you have raised.

Perhaps you should try to work out what your mistake is.

Good luck.

Edited June 2, 2014 by John Cuthber

[Nicholas Kang]

Can you please tell me why my assumption can be not applicable and invalid? I am talking about possibility. These scenarios might happen in the future. You can`t predict future. Is it wrong to make big assumption? Am I crazy with a capital C? Or you think I shouldn`t exist in the world. Then, I did better end my life because of my assumptions that raised idiotic questions.