Question about God

[Deepak Kapur]

God is considered by many people as a supreme soul that is full of pure bliss.

 

My question is............

 

Isn't it immoral (or evil) for a blissful entity to create duality?

 

In other words, when a blissful entity knows that the beings I am going to create will miss this blissful state, creation of a universe itself seems to be a blunder at the least.

[Ten oz]

The great thing about God is that he/she/it sets the standard for all things in the natural world. God cant be wrong about anything. To imply so just triggers the argument that the human mind just cant see the whole picture the way god does.

As a fictional character God has no limit and can not be tied down to anything logical or real.

Edited June 7, 2014 by Ten oz

[sunshaker]

Why does God always have to be all knowing all powerful? If bacteria inside us realized its "universe" was a being that it lived within, It would worship that being/us the same as some worship "God/universe".

 

Do we always understand what effect we have on these bacteria within us, We just do our best to keep our inner universe happy.

[StringJunky]

What's the point of creating a universe and already knowing the story that will unfold within it? Boring. Put some variables in it and you've got a story you don't know the ending to. The essence of religion it seems is about the testing of commitment so it makes sense to me for God to make the universe autonomous and design it with that remit.

 

You can't know happiness without knowing unhappiness and vice versa so we need awareness of both states to appreciate the positive state.

[Deepak Kapur]

The great thing about God is that he/she/it sets the standard for all things in the natural world. God cant be wrong about anything. To imply so just triggers the argument that the human mind just cant see the whole picture the way god does.

As a fictional character God has no limit and can not be tied down to anything logical or real.

 

It's good to have faith in God ( in some supreme ideal).

 

But, I think we should never suspend our rational capabilities, that is a gift to us given by God himself. We should believe in God but side by side keep on asking him questions like,

 

 

Why did You create duality?

 

Why do you allow evil? A supremely good being would never allow even an iota of suffering even if it leads to good afterwards. Your top priority would be absence of any evil. So, why have You created the universe in the first place?

 

etc.

 

I think, asking questions will not harm our faith but would prevent our faith from turning into blind faith.

 

You can't know happiness without knowing unhappiness and vice versa so we need awareness of both states to appreciate the positive state.

 

God is supreme bliss. He doesn't need to be unhappy in order to value and experience His blissfulness. I think, He was in a state of supreme bliss even before He created this universe.

 

So, why hasn't He created us in His true image so that we are able to know and appreciate happiness, without knowing and experiencing unhappiness?

[StringJunky]

 

So, why hasn't He created us in His true image so that we are able to know and appreciate happiness, without knowing and experiencing unhappiness?

Well, he decided that it wasn't going to be given on a plate. How can you know happiness without experiencing it's opposite ...one needs a reference.

[rktpro]

God is considered by many people as a supreme soul that is full of pure bliss.

 

My question is............

 

Isn't it immoral (or evil) for a blissful entity to create duality?

 

In other words, when a blissful entity knows that the beings I am going to create will miss this blissful state, creation of a universe itself seems to be a blunder at the least.

Deepak, your name suggests that you are an Indian. I frame this reply assuming that you want an answer from Vedic philosophy. First of all, as I know of Vedas, God didn't created duality, neither he created universe. Souls are eternal, they are just made visible again, so is universe; all restored to their previous state and then taken by Him again into himself (not liberation, just a state devoid of karma).

God is considered by many people as a supreme soul that is full of pure bliss.

 

My question is............

 

Isn't it immoral (or evil) for a blissful entity to create duality?

 

In other words, when a blissful entity knows that the beings I am going to create will miss this blissful state, creation of a universe itself seems to be a blunder at the least.

Deepak, your name suggests that you are an Indian. I frame this reply assuming that you want an answer from Vedic philosophy. First of all, as I know of Vedas, God didn't created duality, neither he created universe. Souls are eternal, they are just made visible again, so is universe; all restored to their previous state and then taken by Him again into himself (not liberation, just a state devoid of karma).

God is considered by many people as a supreme soul that is full of pure bliss.

 

My question is............

 

Isn't it immoral (or evil) for a blissful entity to create duality?

 

In other words, when a blissful entity knows that the beings I am going to create will miss this blissful state, creation of a universe itself seems to be a blunder at the least.

Deepak, your name suggests that you are an Indian. I frame this reply assuming that you want an answer from Vedic philosophy. First of all, as I know of Vedas, God didn't created duality, neither he created universe. Souls are eternal, as is he;they are just made visible again, so is universe; all restored to their previous state and then taken by Him again into himself (not liberation, just a state devoid of karma).

Someone please fix this ^. I didn't mean posting thrice. Posting from mobile is so ridiculous.

[Deepak Kapur]

Well, he decided that it wasn't going to be given on a plate. How can you know happiness without experiencing it's opposite ...one needs a reference.

 

I think, someone whom we adore, someone whom we consider to possess the highest standard in everything will not do such a thing.

 

 

In my opinion,

 

Either God will create every being in his true image (an image that is devoid of every kind of pain and suffering, just like himself).

or

He would not create anybody at all . His divine grace would never allow him to commit such an act of discrimination.

Deepak, your name suggests that you are an Indian. I frame this reply assuming that you want an answer from Vedic philosophy. First of all, as I know of Vedas, God didn't created duality, neither he created universe. Souls are eternal, they are just made visible again, so is universe; all restored to their previous state and then taken by Him again into himself (not liberation, just a state devoid of karma).

 

Yes, I am an Indian and know something about Vedic Philosophy also.

 

In Vedic philosophy God, Souls and matter are eternal.

 

 

In this case,

 

My question moves a step back, as below

 

 

Isn't it immoral (or evil) for an eternal entity to create duality ( in the form of God, Souls and matter)?

 

In other words, when an eternal entity knows that the entities I am going to create will in turn make beings that miss the blissful state (possessed by God), creation of a universe itself seems to be a blunder at the least.

 

If one says God, Souls and matter are eternal, the question does not go away.

 

because.................

 

Eternal things also need explanation and they also need justify their actions, if any.

 

We simply can't say that such things are beyond us and so we ought not ask questions. This would be an insult to the rational faculty that we have and which is a result/order/mechanism of these eternal entities only.

Edited June 9, 2014 by Deepak Kapur

[Phi for All]

I think, asking questions will not harm our faith but would prevent our faith from turning into blind faith.

 

Isn't "faith" and "blind faith" the same thing? What makes faith "not blind"?

[StringJunky]

 

Isn't "faith" and "blind faith" the same thing? What makes faith "not blind"?

You can have empirically derived faith based on past experience of that object or person. For example; That person did a good deal with me the last dozen times so the chances of a positive outcome are good the next time.

[Deepak Kapur]

 

Isn't "faith" and "blind faith" the same thing? What makes faith "not blind"?

 

This is a very difficult question to answer.

 

 

Someone said (sorry to forget his name and not to quote the exact words), 'We got to have faith in the rational intelligibility of the universe, in order to do science.'

 

Here I think, faith is not blind ( though some people say this faith is also blind).

 

 

For me, If someone tells me to kill a person because my/a particular religion says so, and I do it, it is blind faith because I have faith in God that He would never command such a thing.

Edited June 9, 2014 by Deepak Kapur

[dimreepr]

 

This is a very difficult question to answer.

 

 

Someone said (sorry to forget his name and not to quote the exact words), 'We got to have faith in the rational intelligibility of the universe, in order to do science.'

 

Here I think, faith is not blind ( though some people say this faith is also blind).

 

 

For me, If someone tells me to kill a person because my/a particular religion says so, and I do it, it is blind faith because I have faith in God that He would never command such a thing.

 

That’s because it’s based on a staggering amount of study and evidence to suggest the universe is rationally intelligible; whereas in the case of god/s there is none, so the faith must be blind.

[Phi for All]

This is a very difficult question to answer.

 

 

Someone said (sorry to forget his name and not to quote the exact words), 'We got to have faith in the rational intelligibility of the universe, in order to do science.'

 

Here I think, faith is not blind ( though some people say this faith is also blind).

 

 

For me, If someone tells me to kill a person because my/a particular religion says so, and I do it, it is blind faith because I have faith in God that He would never command such a thing.

Faith doesn't seem to be the right word to use in regards to rational intelligibility. If something is rational, I should be able to follow the logic used to arrive there, test the methodology and form similar conclusions. But if I do that, I'm not really taking it on faith, am I?

 

I don't understand your definition of blind faith. Many religious texts talk about priests telling the people that their god has commanded them to go vanquish their enemies. Gods frequently commanded their followers to go kill people. How can you have "faith" (which is supposed to be a very strong form of belief) your god would never command you to kill people?

 

That’s because it’s based on a staggering amount of study and evidence to suggest the universe is rationally intelligible; whereas in the case of god/s there is none, so the faith must be blind.

 

This seems right to me. I don't have faith in science, I believe in science because the methodology used is rational and predictable, so I can count on it to be accurate. Faith seems to ask me to believe without all the supporting evidence and logical processing of that evidence.

 

Faith seems to ask me to believe very strongly in things I can't possibly know.

[rktpro]

Deepak, as per Vedic philosophy, eternal god didn't created souls at some point of time. It says souls too are eternal. Furthur, by that philosophy, souls turned against divinity, not at some point of time, but have been such by the time they attain god. Most of the scriptures are not available online; if you want I can provide the numbers and the right cantos.

[Deepak Kapur]

Faith doesn't seem to be the right word to use in regards to rational intelligibility. If something is rational, I should be able to follow the logic used to arrive there, test the methodology and form similar conclusions. But if I do that, I'm not really taking it on faith, am I?

 

 

I don't understand your definition of blind faith. Many religious texts talk about priests telling the people that their god has commanded them to go vanquish their enemies. Gods frequently commanded their followers to go kill people. How can you have "faith" (which is supposed to be a very strong form of belief) your god would never command you to kill people?

 

 

Faith seems to ask me to believe very strongly in things I can't possibly know.

 

Faith doesn't seem to be the right word to use in regards to rational intelligibility. If something is rational, I should be able to follow the logic used to arrive there, test the methodology and form similar conclusions. But if I do that, I'm not really taking it on faith, am I?

 

 

I also follow logic when I conclude that the universe is rationally intelligent.

But.............

When Quantum Mechanics tells me that the universe is ultimately the result of random motion and spontaneous creation & annihilation of elementary particles, what do I do?........

 

Do I stop my quest for rational intelligibility/science? NO. NEVER!

 

So, when despite the fact that anarchy is the ultimate law of our universe, I keep on pondering over the problem/experiments with full zest & zeal, aren't I having faith in my observation that the universe is rationally intelligible?

Deepak, as per Vedic philosophy, eternal god didn't created souls at some point of time. It says souls too are eternal. Furthur, by that philosophy, souls turned against divinity, not at some point of time, but have been such by the time they attain god. Most of the scriptures are not available online; if you want I can provide the numbers and the right cantos.

 

Yes, I also have read that as per Vedas, souls exist independently of God and are fixed in number,

but.........

this is not the central problem here.

 

The problem is that eternal things (God, soul, matter, infinite universes etc.) also need explanation!

Edited June 9, 2014 by Deepak Kapur

[dimreepr]

The problem is that eternal things (God, soul, matter, infinite universes etc.) also need explanation!

 

Matter and infinite universe/s has an explanation; god and souls does not and cannot.

 

BTW the coloured text is not as entertaining as you might think.

[Deepak Kapur]

 

Matter and infinite universe/s has an explanation; god and souls does not and cannot.

 

BTW the coloured text is not as entertaining as you might think.

Matter and infinite universe/s has an explanation; god and souls does not and cannot.

Anything 'actually infinite' has explanation/reasons/theories that ultimately lead to 'infinite regress'.

 

 

 

BTW the coloured text is not as entertaining as you might think.

 

I am sorry if you found it bad!. BTW do tell me if there is any rule on this forum that forbids this kind of colouring ( because I am A burnt Child who Dreads Fire).

Edited June 9, 2014 by Deepak Kapur

[dimreepr]

Matter and infinite universe/s has an explanation; god and souls does not and cannot.

Anything 'actually infinite' has explanation/reasons/theories that ultimately lead to 'infinite regress'.

 

Really? http://math.bu.edu/people/jeffs/cantor-proof.html

 

BTW the coloured text is not as entertaining as you might think.

 

I am sorry if you found it bad!. BTW do tell me if there is any rule on this forum that forbids this kind of colouring ( because I am A burnt Child who Dreads Fire).

 

Indeed not, feel free, although it’s not as entertaining as you might think.

[Ten oz]

It's good to have faith in God ( in some supreme ideal).

 

But, I think we should never suspend our rational capabilities, that is a gift to us given by God himself. We should believe in God but side by side keep on asking him questions like,

 

 

Why did You create duality?

 

Why do you allow evil? A supremely good being would never allow even an iota of suffering even if it leads to good afterwards. Your top priority would be absence of any evil. So, why have You created the universe in the first place?

 

etc.

 

I think, asking questions will not harm our faith but would prevent our faith from turning into blind faith.

 

God is supreme bliss. He doesn't need to be unhappy in order to value and experience His blissfulness. I think, He was in a state of supreme bliss even before He created this universe.

 

So, why hasn't He created us in His true image so that we are able to know and appreciate happiness, without knowing and experiencing unhappiness?

It is good to have faith in God? I suppose God can be a unifying meme. Provide people with a sense of belonging and closeness to others. If I were a coach, politician, CEO, or anyone that needed to motive a mass of people I would probably embrace God as a call to action.

On the other hand belief in God has cause a tremendous amount of chaos throughout history. Just as other relics of our past that divided us like racism, s3xism, empires, monopolies and so on have been phased out and universally acknowledged of bad so should God. How many have died in the name of one God and or the other? How many suffer today in God's name? I don't believe in modern society any human should put an intangible belief, based primarily on cultural bias, above their own lives.

[rktpro]

 

Deepak, to the central problem you raise, that infinite entities need explanation; what explanation you want, about why/how they are eternal?

Edited June 10, 2014 by rktpro

[Deepak Kapur]

It is good to have faith in God? I suppose God can be a unifying meme. Provide people with a sense of belonging and closeness to others. If I were a coach, politician, CEO, or anyone that needed to motive a mass of people I would probably embrace God as a call to action.

On the other hand belief in God has cause a tremendous amount of chaos throughout history. Just as other relics of our past that divided us like racism, s3xism, empires, monopolies and so on have been phased out and universally acknowledged of bad so should God. How many have died in the name of one God and or the other? How many suffer today in God's name? I don't believe in modern society any human should put an intangible belief, based primarily on cultural bias, above their own lives.

 

I am not talking about a culture specific/area specific/planet specific/universe specific God. I am talking about that supreme being/power/goodness who has created creation ( may be one universe or infinite universes). (He may not even exist, that's not the point).

 

It's not that this God I am taking about is above reproach and enquiry.

 

He has to answer a lot of questions ( most prominent question being the presence of evil in the universe he has created).

 

 

It's only when we start believing in such an ideal that would not let pain/suffering happen to even the minutest of beings, do we tend to value humanity and life in general.

 

It's then, that we start asking to ourselves various questions like,

 

 

1. What right do I have to eat other plants/animals for my survival, when they also have life in them just like I have life?

2. Why would a good creator allow this?

3. Why would a good creator even allow duality, when it smacks of discrimination by way of separation from the state of pure bliss?

4. Why should I believe in eternal matter/universe rather than an eternal creator, when both concepts are unexplainable ?

.

.

. etc.

 

When such an ideal is firmly entrenched in us, we come close to this ideal ( God) and in some cases human beings themselves become God, by pursuing such ideals. They go beyond this material world to a state that is pure bliss devoid of any duality. May be they also get answers to all the disturbing questions.

It's not speculation but something that some spiritual/religious masters have experienced all over the world.

This leads to another question to be asked from God.......

Why only some people experience this state of supreme bliss, when many sincerely try to achieve it? Isn't it discrimination on your part?

Edited June 10, 2014 by Deepak Kapur

[dimreepr]

 

I am not talking about a culture specific/area specific/planet specific/universe specific God. I am talking about that supreme being/power/goodness who has created creation ( may be one universe or infinite universes). (He may not even exist, that's not the point).

 

It's not that this God I am taking about is above reproach and enquiry.

 

He has to answer a lot of questions ( most prominent question being the presence of evil in the universe he has created).

 

 

It's only when we start believing in such an ideal that would not let pain/suffering happen to even the minutest of beings, do we tend to value humanity and life in general.

 

It's then, that we start asking to ourselves various questions like,

 

 

1. What right do I have to eat other plants/animals for my survival, when they also have life in them just like I have life?

2. Why would a good creator allow this?

3. Why would a good creator even allow duality, when it smacks of discrimination by way of separation from the state of pure bliss?

4. Why should I believe in eternal matter/universe rather than an eternal creator, when both concepts are unexplainable ?

.

.

. etc.

 

When such an ideal is firmly entrenched in us, we come close to this ideal ( God) and in some cases human beings themselves become God, by pursuing such ideals. They go beyond this material world to a state that is pure bliss devoid of any duality. May be they also get answers to all the disturbing questions.

It's not speculation but something that some spiritual/religious masters have experienced all over the world.

This leads to another question to be asked from God.......

Why only some people experience this state of supreme bliss, when many sincerely try to achieve it? Isn't it discrimination on your part?

 

"Supreme bliss"

How do you know such a state exists? And how does it differ from simply being content with your life and how you fit in the world?

 

It’s good to ask questions, but only answers can lead to understanding; so maybe you should re-direct your enquiries to within.

[Deepak Kapur]

Deepak, to the central problem you raise, that infinite entities need explanation; what explanation you want, about why/how they are eternal?

 

Various explanations...........

 

 

Why/how are they enternal? What is the mechanism that led to this eternity?

 

Any entity that makes this complex universe should/must be more complex itself. What's the source of its complexity?

 

If an entity (like God) has existed for an infinite amount of time, how could it 'traverse' that infinite time to reach a point of creating something?

.

.

etc.

.

.

 

Various answers are available to such questions, but they seem to lead to even more questions rather than giving a solution.

 

"Supreme bliss"

How do you know such a state exists? And how does it differ from simply being content with your life and how you fit in the world?

 

It’s good to ask questions, but only answers can lead to understanding; so maybe you should re-direct your enquiries to within.

 

"Supreme bliss"

How do you know such a state exists?

 

From personal experience.........

 

 

 

 

And how does it differ from simply being content with your life and how you fit in the world?

 

Because it tells us that in order to be content in life we have to be alive first. And 'being alive' (even breathing) is such a cruel process ( courtesy the food chain) that any contentment is just a farce.

 

 

 

 

so maybe you should re-direct your enquiries to within

 

guess what...........I have already done that ( but answers still elude me, nevertheless I will be persistent in my efforts...come what may)

Edited June 10, 2014 by Deepak Kapur

[Phi for All]

 

Why only some people experience this state of supreme bliss, when many sincerely try to achieve it? Isn't it discrimination on your part?

 

God hates colored fonts.

[Ten oz]

I am not talking about a culture specific/area specific/planet specific/universe specific God. I am talking about that supreme being/power/goodness who has created creation ( may be one universe or infinite universes). (He may not even exist, that's not the point).

 

It's not that this God I am taking about is above reproach and enquiry.

 

He has to answer a lot of questions ( most prominent question being the presence of evil in the universe he has created).

 

 

It's only when we start believing in such an ideal that would not let pain/suffering happen to even the minutest of beings, do we tend to value humanity and life in general.

 

It's then, that we start asking to ourselves various questions like,

 

 

1. What right do I have to eat other plants/animals for my survival, when they also have life in them just like I have life?

2. Why would a good creator allow this?

3. Why would a good creator even allow duality, when it smacks of discrimination by way of separation from the state of pure bliss?

4. Why should I believe in eternal matter/universe rather than an eternal creator, when both concepts are unexplainable ?

.

.

. etc.

 

When such an ideal is firmly entrenched in us, we come close to this ideal ( God) and in some cases human beings themselves become God, by pursuing such ideals. They go beyond this material world to a state that is pure bliss devoid of any duality. May be they also get answers to all the disturbing questions.

It's not speculation but something that some spiritual/religious masters have experienced all over the world.

This leads to another question to be asked from God.......

Why only some people experience this state of supreme bliss, when many sincerely try to achieve it? Isn't it discrimination on your part?

God will never answer any of the questions you raised. God doesn't answer questions. God can be believed in but not interacted with.

 

In my opinion the sooner humans acknowledge that we are on our own and that there isn't a heaven, a god to replenish the earth, and this life is all we have the better. Once we acknowledge those things we as a society can set about answering questions about the way we want to live.

Edited June 10, 2014 by Ten oz