Ideal Striker & Strikee

[Acme]

So the current distance record for an object thrown by a human is for throwing a Aerobie 1,333 feet.

 

So I'm wondering what is the best way to strike an object and set a distance record. For example, the record golf drive is 1,545 feet.

 

Now with no (maybe a few?) restrictions on striker or strickee, what is the ideal setup? Can you bat a golf ball further using a bat than a golf club? Tennis racket? Ball bearing or super-ball instead of a golf ball? Perhaps there is an ideal striker outside what we traditionally use in sports. If so, what is it like?

 

If there were to be a contest at Oak Dell park next month for the longest strike of an object, what would you show up with to compete?

Edited June 7, 2014 by Acme

[Phi for All]

super-ball instead of a golf ball?

 

I remember looking this up. Not nearly as great as I thought it would be. Golf balls are really well designed to be hit long distances by golf clubs. I can't think of anything using a human-powered striker that could smack something farther.

 

If there are no restrictions though, a striker could be propelled by chemical or electrical means to shoot a projectile over distance. This probably crosses a line in the scenario you're talking about, though.

[Acme]

I remember looking this up. Not nearly as great as I thought it would be. Golf balls are really well designed to be hit long distances by golf clubs. I can't think of anything using a human-powered striker that could smack something farther.

 

If there are no restrictions though, a striker could be propelled by chemical or electrical means to shoot a projectile over distance. This probably crosses a line in the scenario you're talking about, though.

Understood. Nonetheless, golfing authorities do prohibit certain ball designs as they give an 'unfair' advantage. In my scenario no such restrictions apply. So for example the dimpling on a golf ball prolongs time aloft and so distance achieved and one might dimple a super-ball or a titanium 'marble' for example to achieve similar gain.

 

Definitely no chemical or electrical means allowed. Strictly 'hit it as far as you can' idea. I do think mechanical improvements to the striker be allowed, such as a sliding mass or articulations. I would consider the stringing on a tennis racket to be a mechanical improvement for example. Nunchaku would be allowed too.

 

The strikee can be any shape or material and may be teed up or thrown up prior to striking.

Edited June 7, 2014 by Acme

[Phi for All]

I do think mechanical improvements to the striker be allowed, such as a sliding mass or articulations. I would consider the stringing on a tennis racket to be a mechanical improvement for example. Nunchaku would be allowed too.

 

What about springs and/or compressed air?

[Acme]

What about springs and/or compressed air?

Good points. So a conditional yes to both. The conditions are that those means may not be used to propel the striker. However, a corked bat incorporates a spring, and strings on a tennis racket constitute a spring, and rather than corking one might have a bat with a hollow core filled with an elastic container of compressed gas. Those spring and compressed 'air' contrivances we allow. But a human winding up a spring as in a catapult or pumping a cylinder to high pressure as in a BB gun is not allowed.

 

At the simplest level we are hitting something with a 'stick' with the goal of having that hit thing travel farther than any other hit things. While the strength/power among humans vary, it is conceivable that a less powerful human with a better stick and 'ball' could out-distance the hit of a more powerful opponent.

 

'Batter' up!

[Danijel Gorupec]

I don't really get your question... do you allow mechanical energy storage (outside humans body) or not? I mean, the golf club is an energy storage device. Why would you allow to store the energy into a moving mass, but not allow to store it into a spring?

[John Cuthber]

Just a thought,

I'm pretty sure that the important factor is the velocity with which the ball is launched.

That must be limited in some way, by the strength of the materials but I guess we can set that aside for the minute.

How long a golf club can you use?

 

If you stand on a block so you can use a longer club, will the increased radius mean that the club head ends up with a higher velocity?

Will that lead to a longer flight?

 

Also, you might want to read this

http://h2g2.com/edited_entry/A36353126

I'm not sure it will work "sideways" but it might.

[imatfaal]

World recording holding Slingers can fling their projectiles a little over 500m. The record for a composite bow (historical bone sinew etc) is about 550m - but for a modern flight archery bow the record is well over 1000m. But for using human strength stored and released - a cross-bow can (if pushed to record-breaking limits) fire over a mile!

 

I think the world record is just over 2000m. Not very accurate - but very very long

[StringJunky]

What about using a ball-bearing as the golf ball and putting an elastic surface on the golf club face of appropriate stiffness and depth such that the elastic surface doesn't fully compress on full contact?. There should be more inertia in the travelling ball to punch through the air resistance.and hence gain more distance.

[Phi for All]

Good points. So a conditional yes to both. The conditions are that those means may not be used to propel the striker. However, a corked bat incorporates a spring, and strings on a tennis racket constitute a spring, and rather than corking one might have a bat with a hollow core filled with an elastic container of compressed gas. Those spring and compressed 'air' contrivances we allow. But a human winding up a spring as in a catapult or pumping a cylinder to high pressure as in a BB gun is not allowed.

 

Got it. Without using chemical or electric energy, I was thinking of adding to the compression factor of a golf ball by using a spring or compressed air to push the club face out a bit and add energy to the striker right as it contacts the ball.

[Acme]

I don't really get your question... do you allow mechanical energy storage (outside humans body) or not? I mean, the golf club is an energy storage device. Why would you allow to store the energy into a moving mass, but not allow to store it into a spring?

At the most basic level, what is the farthest a human can hit a ball is the question.

 

Just a thought,

I'm pretty sure that the important factor is the velocity with which the ball is launched.

And I think the angle of the launch. IIRC, all else being held equal an angle of launch of 45º achieves the farthest distance.

 

That must be limited in some way, by the strength of the materials but I guess we can set that aside for the minute.

How long a golf club can you use?

I think definitely the strength of material matters. While golfers aren't allowed a club over 48", we can allow any length of club that a human can swing.

 

If you stand on a block so you can use a longer club, will the increased radius mean that the club head ends up with a higher velocity?

Will that lead to a longer flight?

That is a good, if not the, question. Standing on a block is fine. Somewhere there will be diminishing return. A five foot block and a 9 foot club might gain some distance, but a 10 foot block and a 19 foot club could get dicey.

 

Also, you might want to read this

http://h2g2.com/edited_entry/A36353126

I'm not sure it will work "sideways" but it might.

Reading it now.

 

World recording holding Slingers can fling their projectiles a little over 500m. The record for a composite bow (historical bone sinew etc) is about 550m - but for a modern flight archery bow the record is well over 1000m. But for using human strength stored and released - a cross-bow can (if pushed to record-breaking limits) fire over a mile!

 

I think the world record is just over 2000m. Not very accurate - but very very long

Roger. However for this project we are concerned with hitting/striking an object with another object to propel the struck object. At the most basic level, batting.

 

What about using a ball-bearing as the golf ball and putting an elastic surface on the golf club face of appropriate stiffness and depth such that the elastic surface doesn't fully compress on full contact?. There should be more inertia in the travelling ball to punch through the air resistance.and hence gain more distance.

Yes. Absolutely what I am heading for. The ideal 'ball' hit by the ideal 'bat'.

 

Got it. Without using chemical or electric energy, I was thinking of adding to the compression factor of a golf ball by using a spring or compressed air to push the club face out a bit and add energy to the striker right as it contacts the ball.

I like it!

Edited June 8, 2014 by Acme

[John Cuthber]

I was taking a 45 degree angle as read.

 

I have had a further silly idea.

Imagine tying a golf ball to the end of a long string and tying the other end to a tree or something so the string is just long enough for the sball to reach the ground..

keeping the string taught, raise the ball to the level of the top of the tree so the string is horizontal + let it go.

The ball will sing down and end up at ground level.

In principle, the longer the string, the higher the velocity. (at least until air resistance gets in the way.)

 

If you let this ball on a string hit a second ball at the bottom of the swing, all of the momentum and energy should be transferred to that ball and it will shoot off horizontally at a speed which is , at least in principle, only limited by the height of the tree.

 

Put a 45 degree ramp in front of the second ball.

[Acme]

...

 

So some clarifications.

 

I put 'bat' in parentheses because it gets to the basic idea of a striker, but I want to allow the broadest possible application of the idea of bat. Golf clubs, baseball bats, cricket bats, and tennis rackets all meet my criteria. But if you want to swing a 15 foot steel rod (either sideways from the ground or vertically from a pedestal) or swing a piece of bamboo packed with rubber, that's up to you.

 

Same approach for putting 'ball' in parentheses. The strikee -i.e. the struck object that will travel after being hit by the 'bat', can be any material or combination of materials and needn't be spherical at all. If you think you can launch an arrow by hitting it with a 'bat' and have it go farther than a golf ball then go for it. The 'ball' can be any shape, size, or materials.

I was taking a 45 degree angle as read.

 

I have had a further silly idea.

Imagine tying a golf ball to the end of a long string and tying the other end to a tree or something so the string is just long enough for the sball to reach the ground..

keeping the string taught, raise the ball to the level of the top of the tree so the string is horizontal + let it go.

The ball will sing down and end up at ground level.

In principle, the longer the string, the higher the velocity. (at least until air resistance gets in the way.)

 

If you let this ball on a string hit a second ball at the bottom of the swing, all of the momentum and energy should be transferred to that ball and it will shoot off horizontally at a speed which is , at least in principle, only limited by the height of the tree.

 

Put a 45 degree ramp in front of the second ball.

While not technically 'batting' as I have in mind, your clever arrangement does introduce some of the technical difficulties I foresee with 'batting'. Since we're concerned with real people and real materials and real air, we can't simply disregard air resistance, or how high a platform we can build and climb, or how hard it would be to actually hit a golf ball with a 20 foot long striker. Not only the air resistance, but the weight and the difficulty in 'aiming' the hit.

[John Cuthber]

The advantage to a string is that, as long as it stays tight, you know where it will end up (though a bifilar suspension might be less affected by the wind.)

If the pendulum bob is heavy it will not be badly affected by air resistance and will run through the shot. I'd advise keeping tout of the way and letting it come to a halt on its own.

[Acme]

...Also, you might want to read this

http://h2g2.com/edited_entry/A36353126

I'm not sure it will work "sideways" but it might.

OK; read it. I do indeed think it would work sideways, but with the same caveat that the strike must be perfectly centered. So imagine my bat with a basketball fastened to the business end and a soccer ball fastened to the basketball and I then hit a super-ball* with the soccerball-basketball-bat.

 

*I have been writing 'super-ball' which is actually a trade name for Whamo's 'bouncy' ball. These may be the ideal strikee, but they can shatter if struck or bounced too hard. I would think dimpling a super ball would add to its flight distance, though the dimpling might make it more likely to shatter when impacted.

 

Super Ball @ Wikipedia

A Super Ball (aka SuperBall) is a toy based on a type of synthetic rubber invented in 1964 by chemist Norman Stingley. It is an extremely elastic ball made of Zectron[1] which contains the synthetic polymer polybutadiene as well as hydrated silica, zinc oxide, stearic acid, and other ingredients.[2] This compound is vulcanized with sulfur at a temperature of 165 degrees Celsius and formed at a pressure of 3,500psi. The resulting Super Ball has a very high coefficient of restitution,[3][4][5] and dropped from shoulder level, Super Balls snap nearly all the way back; thrown down by an average adult, it can leap over a three-story building.

 

Toys similar to Super Balls are more generally known as bouncy balls, a term which covers other balls by different manufacturers with different formulations. ...

The advantage to a string is that, as long as it stays tight, you know where it will end up (though a bifilar suspension might be less affected by the wind.)

If the pendulum bob is heavy it will not be badly affected by air resistance and will run through the shot. I'd advise keeping tout of the way and letting it come to a halt on its own.

While I wouldn't allow your dropped from a tree pendulum swing at our park contest, I would let you swing your ball on-a-string as did David vs. Goliath and strike the target ball to drive it. Perhaps use a tether ball to bat a golf ball.

 

I'd advise everyone take care to stay out of the way during said contest.