Why Reputation? It Hurts Sometime Apart Making Us Happy

[dimreepr]

 

How do you know/can you say this forum is not democratic? We speak at least through words but I dislike reputations. This forum is democratic in the sense that you are allowed to speak through words/express your opinions and together with reputations but my suggestion is to shut down the reputation system and continue with replying system because no problem with democratic but emotions. We should take others` emotion into account too.

 

 

So instead of a system, that works; you’d like a system where any approval/disapproval will inevitably send the thread off topic?

[Phi for All]

 

I don`t disagree with the fact that people who make mistake should be informed with their mistake, but there should be a lot of ways, not just by reputations.

 

If there should be lots of ways besides reputation, why do you want to abolish reputation?

 

Do you think this might be an issue where your two weeks experience here isn't giving you enough data to make such strong assertions? Just sayin'.

[Endy0816]

 

How do you know/can you say this forum is not democratic?

 

The forum is private property. Your rights stop where their rights begin.

Edited June 15, 2014 by Endy0816

[Nicholas Kang]

So instead of a system, that works; you’d like a system where any approval/disapproval will inevitably send the thread off topic?

 

I mean we can use words to disapprove or approve or agree with somone`s idea. The words can show that you are not angry/rude.dislike the poster when you reply him/her. So, the poster might not feel upset and willing to accept your comment and the truth. If you use a red-1 sign, somehow the poster feels sad /upset and loss confidences in her life/science carrier and more serious one can lead to suicide, who knows? We shouldn`t just look things from one perspective, but we should look through the whole situation.

 

 

 

If there should be lots of ways besides reputation, why do you want to abolish reputation?

 

Dear Mr. Phi for All, we want to abolish reputation system because other ways are better than the current reputation system.

 

 

Do you think this might be an issue where your two weeks experience here isn't giving you enough data to make such strong assertions? Just sayin'.

 

Yes, it is an issue where I am not satisfy with this forum`s current reputation system. The data available is more than enough. My 2 weeks experience tells me to fight for those posters` who have their post(s) beeing voted down. I am not satisfy, so, I won`t just sit in front of this computer and just replying/posting new topics. I want changes to be made, so everyone is happy. (Maybe Mr. Phi For All won`t happy )

 

The forum is private property. Your rights stop where their rights begin.

 

Dear Mr. Endy0816,

 

You mean this forum is not democratic at all? Ok, yeah, you are right because only administrators and moderators have the right to control the post contents and the status of posters. My right stops when I had finished posting and the resident experts right rises when they comment over your post. Both rights stops when moderators and administrators control/take action of your post. So, finally, it seems that only moderators and administrators right will always rise and never fall. (They do fall after controlling one`s post but soon another will take over)

[ajb]

We shouldn`t just look things from one perspective, but we should look through the whole situation.

Again, if you look at those that have collected lots of negative points it tends to be because of attitude and persistent posting of personal ideas or fringe science in exactly the same light as established science. Also, note that these people have consistently been told about this both in the form of other members' replies and moderator notes. It is not the case that they just get negative points with no kind of dialogue before. These collectors of negative points are also often very close to breaking the forum rules.

 

I won't discuss specifics here, buy what I have said seems to be the general trend in my opinion.

 

In short, I would not worry too much about this. If you are here to ask science questions and answer those that you can using established science then you should have no problem.

[Nicholas Kang]

Ok, I loss again. So, no argument. Wait a minute, you mean these people are annoying in the forum? Since they just do those jobs that are as unnecessary as what you have mentioned, then why don`t just set a limit for them. For example, maximum -5 points. If more than -5, then their membership will be automatically being disqualified. Then, the job is done. So, no worries of cases like you have mentioned above, and we are all happy.

 

I am still young. So, instead of asking nonsenses, I will opt for learning. I did learn something new through this forum, especially Science(Physics) and English as well. Famous mentors including you ajb, Mordred, Sato, Phi for All, Ophiolite, Endy0816, Delta1212 and Bignose. You are all my mentors and in the future I welcome all of you to continue to be my mentor and I wish to learn more from all of you.

Edited June 15, 2014 by Nicholas Kang

[ajb]

...you mean these people are annoying in the forum?

More importantly they are at odds with the ethos of this forum, if not the actual rules.

[Nicholas Kang]

You didn`t answer my question, ajb. I did ask you what is your opinion about limiting negative posters membership period. So, until certain limits, their membership will be terminated then the argument ends.

[dimreepr]

I mean we can use words to disapprove or approve or agree with somone`s idea. The words can show that you are not angry/rude.dislike the poster when you reply him/her. So, the poster might not feel upset and willing to accept your comment and the truth. If you use a red-1 sign, somehow the poster feels sad /upset and loss confidences in her life/science carrier and more serious one can lead to suicide, who knows? We shouldn`t just look things from one perspective, but we should look through the whole situation.

 

I mean, using words as a means of approval or disapproval of a previous post will, by definition, not be on the topic under discussion. I, therefore, reiterate the system works fine.

[ajb]

I did ask you what is your opinion about limiting negative posters membership period. So, until certain limits, their membership will be terminated then the argument ends.

I have not really thought about it.

[Nicholas Kang]

How can you be so sure that using words as a means of approval and disapproval will, by definition, not be on the topic under discussion? It shouldn`t be wrong to use words to show your disapproval and if there is reasonable reason. For example, if I say you are stupid. And instead of voting me-1, you can reply me why you say I am stupid. Do you have evidences? If yes, then you should think of what`s wrong with you. If no, simply report the moderator/administrator. Then, I will disappear from you and this forum. Of course, saying you are stupid may make you angry, so I am wrong at first, then you can simply report me to the moderator. And this prove that from words, you can simply/easily know my character and terminate me to prevent further trouble.

I have not really thought about it.

 

Then you should think of it now.

Edited June 15, 2014 by Nicholas Kang

[ajb]

For example, if I say you are stupid. And instead of voting me-1, you can reply me why you say I am stupid.

Being wrong is not against the rule and in my opinion should not get you any negative points. What you do next after being informed of your mistake will decide if you get negative points.

 

Opening calling someone stupid on this forum would usually be considered a personal attack and this is against the rules. We like to aim our attacks at specific ideas and not specific individuals.

[dimreepr]

How can you be so sure that using words as a means of approval and disapproval will, by definition, not be on the topic under discussion? It shouldn`t be wrong to use words to show your disapproval and if there is reasonable reason. For example, if I say you are stupid. And instead of voting me-1, you can reply me why you say I am stupid. Do you have evidences? If yes, then you should think of what`s wrong with you. If no, simply report the moderator/administrator. Then, I will disappear from you and this forum. Of course, saying you are stupid may make you angry, so I am wrong at first, then you can simply report me to the moderator. And this prove that from words, you can simply/easily know my character and terminate me to prevent further trouble.

 

 

Because, it must be about why you approve/disapprove of that post, at best, it would be tangential to the topic and most tangents just hit empty space.

[swansont]

How do you know/can you say this forum is not democratic?

Prior discussions. This forum is not democratic. The members do not have any official say in how the board is run. We don't vote on such things. The staff are not idiots, though — suggestions can be made and will be implemented if it improves how the board functions.

How can you be so sure that using words as a means of approval and disapproval will, by definition, not be on the topic under discussion? It shouldn`t be wrong to use words to show your disapproval and if there is reasonable reason. For example, if I say you are stupid. And instead of voting me-1, you can reply me why you say I am stupid. Do you have evidences? If yes, then you should think of what`s wrong with you. If no, simply report the moderator/administrator. Then, I will disappear from you and this forum. Of course, saying you are stupid may make you angry, so I am wrong at first, then you can simply report me to the moderator. And this prove that from words, you can simply/easily know my character and terminate me to prevent further trouble.

 

Insults are against the rules, and we'd prefer to not ban people if it can be helped. Most embers of polite society follow the rules of society, and peer pressure is part of that. While there are some who only follow rules for fear of official enforcement, most mature people follow rules because they can observe it make for a better society and decide for themselves that it's the right thing to do.

[Arete]

And instead of voting me-1, you can reply me why you say I am stupid.

 

 

As I pointed out way back on page 1, if someone has already explained why a post is incorrect/inappropriate, I can simply neg the poor post and plus the good post, without cluttering a thread with redundant posts. It effectively shows that more than one person disagrees or agrees with a post, without pages of "I also agree/disagree" posts.

 

Also, there seems to be virtually unanimous agreement among the long term members that the rep system is a positive feature which works as intended. Given you joined the forum less than a month ago, why not see how it works for a while rather than presuming to change a community you are a newcomer to?

 

Edit: not to mention that the rep system can save me time. If I see a wall of text post with several neg reps, or by a user with low reputation, it can save me trawling through reams of nonsense. In such a case, neg reps can be a kind of community service - "I've taken the time to read this. I want my ten minutes back. Let this red mark act as a warning to others."

Edited June 15, 2014 by Arete

[Phi for All]

For example, if I say you are stupid. And instead of voting me-1, you can reply me why you say I am stupid. Do you have evidences? If yes, then you should think of what`s wrong with you. If no, simply report the moderator/administrator. Then, I will disappear from you and this forum. Of course, saying you are stupid may make you angry, so I am wrong at first, then you can simply report me to the moderator. And this prove that from words, you can simply/easily know my character and terminate me to prevent further trouble.

 

This tells me you haven't read the SFN Rules. There's a link at the bottom right corner of each page.

 

Really, given that you just got here and didn't take the time to read the rules, don't you think such strong criticism is misplaced?

[Ophiolite]

Could the "Reputation" system fulfil a basic human need. Which is - to set up a "pecking order", or dominance hierarchy. Which sorts out who's the boss.

 

Is that why you very rarely see posts by Mods get a negative vote - because they're the bosses?

No. It's because Mods, and even more so the forum experts, are outstanding examples of humanity whose very presence energises a community and whose compassion, wisdom and baking skills are second to none. Sunshine follows them as they walk the Earth and bird burst into song as they pass.

[Nicholas Kang]

Being wrong is not against the rule and in my opinion should not get you any negative points. What you do next after being informed of your mistake will decide if you get negative points.

 

Opening calling someone stupid on this forum would usually be considered a personal attack and this is against the rules. We like to aim our attacks at specific ideas and not specific individuals.

 

I just use stupid as an example. I won`t do that. I won`t that. It is just an example that shooked up my mind since I want to mention something negative as an example. There are other examples too, but I just talk about stupid.

 

This tells me you haven't read the SFN Rules. There's a link at the bottom right corner of each page.

 

Really, given that you just got here and didn't take the time to read the rules, don't you think such strong criticism is misplaced?

 

Dear Mr. Phi for All,

 

You know I am just a student. Of course I don`t have much free time to look at the SFN rules and sorry to say that/do that. Could you tell me I had violated which law of the SFN? I am willing to hear. Thanks.

 

 

As I pointed out way back on page 1, if someone has already explained why a post is incorrect/inappropriate, I can simply neg the poor post and plus the good post, without cluttering a thread with redundant posts. It effectively shows that more than one person disagrees or agrees with a post, without pages of "I also agree/disagree" posts.

 

Also, there seems to be virtually unanimous agreement among the long term members that the rep system is a positive feature which works as intended. Given you joined the forum less than a month ago, why not see how it works for a while rather than presuming to change a community you are a newcomer to?

 

Edit: not to mention that the rep system can save me time. If I see a wall of text post with several neg reps, or by a user with low reputation, it can save me trawling through reams of nonsense. In such a case, neg reps can be a kind of community service - "I've taken the time to read this. I want my ten minutes back. Let this red mark act as a warning to others."

 

Ok, I agree with you, Arete. I am too rush. So, I will take some time and let`s see how, is that ok?

Insults are against the rules, and we'd prefer to not ban people if it can be helped. Most embers of polite society follow the rules of society, and peer pressure is part of that. While there are some who only follow rules for fear of official enforcement, most mature people follow rules because they can observe it make for a better society and decide for themselves that it's the right thing to do.

 

You are right, it is social ethics. But, what about those who don`t follow? What about those who are immature?

Because, it must be about why you approve/disapprove of that post, at best, it would be tangential to the topic and most tangents just hit empty space.

 

Why I disapprove one`s post? Of course people would want to know why. So, we should explain to people and of course explaning can be his/her topic is/was wrong or inaccurate scientific theory or inappropriate useage of words. People would learn from us. That is good. Of course discussion of feelings must be minimized.

[imatfaal]

 

I just use stupid as an example. I won`t do that. I won`t that. It is just an example that shooked up my mind since I want to mention something negative as an example. There are other examples too, but I just talk about stupid.

 

Dear Mr. Phi for All,

 

You know I am just a student. Of course I don`t have much free time to look at the SFN rules and sorry to say that/do that. Could you tell me I had violated which law of the SFN? I am willing to hear. Thanks.

 

I think what both Phi and AJB were saying is that calling someone stupid (or calling them anything derogatory) is an insult - and this is strictly forbidden. No one is accusing you of doing this - they are merely saying that this isn't happening / or at least should not be happening on our forum. The reputation system is there to give a quick impression that a post is very good or substandard - note it is the post that is judged not the member.

 

Ok, I agree with you, Arete. I am too rush. So, I will take some time and let`s see how, is that ok?

 

None of us have as much time as we would like - but I think it pays dividends to read back to yourself before you press the post button; I always do and I hope that it improves the quality of my posting

 

You are right, it is social ethics. But, what about those who don`t follow? What about those who are immature?

 

We learn by example and by positive/negative reinforcement by society. The best thing about the adolescent is their boundless energy and imagination - and that they will mature. I have seen posts on this forum by members I respect and read avidly - they claim that much of their excellent writing style and ability to propose a well-formed argument comes from their years as rowdy teenagers here at SF.N

Why I disapprove one`s post? Of course people would want to know why. So, we should explain to people and of course explaning can be his/her topic is/was wrong or inaccurate scientific theory or inappropriate useage of words. People would learn from us. That is good. Of course discussion of feelings must be minimized.

 

Sometimes it is necessary to explain why you don't like a post - but once you have explained yourself a couple of times and the mistake continues to be made then patience can run thin and you reach for the neg-rep. I also neg-rep any post which treats another member with a lack of due respect and tolerance

[swansont]

You are right, it is social ethics. But, what about those who don`t follow? What about those who are immature?

 

The gain on the feedback is increased — if the transgressions are persistent, eventually the staff will take action. If that doesn't effect change, then the person will simply not be allowed to participate.

[Nicholas Kang]

I think what both Phi and AJB were saying is that calling someone stupid (or calling them anything derogatory) is an insult - and this is strictly forbidden. No one is accusing you of doing this - they are merely saying that this isn't happening / or at least should not be happening on our forum. The reputation system is there to give a quick impression that a post is very good or substandard - note it is the post that is judged not the member.

 

But the post is made by the member. The member determines the quality of the post.

 

Sometimes it is necessary to explain why you don't like a post - but once you have explained yourself a couple of times and the mistake continues to be made then patience can run thin and you reach for the neg-rep. I also neg-rep any post which treats another member with a lack of due respect and tolerance

 

Why don`t just ignore it? Then, no more neg-rep and saves time.

[Strange]

 

But the post is made by the member. The member determines the quality of the post.

 

But intelligent, kind and good looking people can say things that are stupid, or just wrong. Pointing out that their statement is incorrect (or even stupid) does not mean that you don't think that they are intelligent, kind, etc.

 

If someone says that your guitar playing is terrible, or tells you that you can't spell, or that you have misunderstood physics they are not criticising you they are criticising your work. These are separate things.

[Nicholas Kang]

There are separate things but same source-you. They criticize your work because it is you who have done it. It is your problem that leads to your work being criticized.

[Phi for All]

 

But the post is made by the member. The member determines the quality of the post.

 

 

Why don`t just ignore it? Then, no more neg-rep and saves time.

 

I think you should remove "I won't discuss about reputation" from your signature if you're going to continue to discuss it. My personal opinion.

 

Unofficially, I'm also not very happy that your signature seems to imply that talking about reputation is against the rules. Could you do something about that, unofficially?

 

You may also want to rethink the apologies that are now appearing on every single post you make. Just sayin'.

 

 

 

 

Give yourself some time to adjust to the community. You're doing well. Just stay curious, re-read what you're about to post before you post it, and remember that everyone here wants to learn.

 

An observation: Perhaps you should say "Thank you" instead of "I'm sorry". You don't offend anyone by being wrong about something, unless you make them feel like they're kicking the dog when they correct you. If someone corrects you, aren't they doing you a favor? That deserves thanks, not an apology.

[Nicholas Kang]

Good sugggestion but that signature is just to reminding me of not asking for reputation points. So, be humble. Ok, it is ok. I will change my signature.

What do you mean by I am doing well? I am just a secondary school student, anyway.

The same advice as Mr.Ophiolite`s. So, no sorry but thanks. Thank you, Mr. Phi for All.

Edited June 20, 2014 by Nicholas Kang