KenBrace Posted June 20, 2014 Author Posted June 20, 2014 There is a difference between supernatural speculation and physical reality. You can do what you wish, but for me I am not simply satisfied that one day I will die and ave no clue what comes next. The only thing worthwhile that I've found and that is worth looking into is the Mo Pai school and what it teaches. It doesn't have to be taken by faith though. It can be experienced first hand. I completely understand your skepticism since there is nothing but "supernatural" hogwash as far as the eye can see. If a person is scrutinized by scientists and is shown to have validity, then it is worth looking into in my opinion. Not supernatural. Just not yet understood by modern science.
dimreepr Posted June 20, 2014 Posted June 20, 2014 You can do what you wish, but for me I am not simply satisfied that one day I will die and ave no clue what comes next. Well, prepare to be disappointed. . If a person is scrutinized by scientists and is shown to have validity, then it is worth looking into in my opinion. He wasn’t shown to have validity, at best; he was shown to, not have obvious tricks.
Prometheus Posted June 20, 2014 Posted June 20, 2014 It seems like wishful thinking to me as well, but good luck in your search. On a related note i would say that a religion, or any ideology, that propagates the idea of an afterlife does a grave disservice to humanity. It prevents us from truly addressing our fears and concerns around death making the whole process harder than it need be.
KenBrace Posted June 20, 2014 Author Posted June 20, 2014 Well, prepare to be disappointed. He wasn’t shown to have validity, at best; he was shown to, not have obvious tricks. Any explanations for his feats considering their scrutiny? Also like I said, this doesn't have to be taken by faith. You can experience things for yourself if you care enough to investigate scientifically scrutinized claims.
dimreepr Posted June 20, 2014 Posted June 20, 2014 Any explanations for his feats considering their scrutiny? I gave one in post #17.
KenBrace Posted June 20, 2014 Author Posted June 20, 2014 (edited) It seems like wishful thinking to me as well, but good luck in your search. On a related note i would say that a religion, or any ideology, that propagates the idea of an afterlife does a grave disservice to humanity. It prevents us from truly addressing our fears and concerns around death making the whole process harder than it need be. Religion and faith isn't a path anyone should take. Something comes next even if it's complete non-existence. Based on the vast research I've done into Mo Pai and the personal experimentation I've put in, I am pretty much convinced of its legitimacy. The problem isn't really non-existence. The problem is a bad existence after death. Preventing that is my goal. If it doesn't exist to start with then I still achieved my goal. On the other hand just sitting around and not caring is the worst option imo. I gave one in post #17. Right, sorry I forgot about that. The process behind an electric eel's electric shock is a complex process though. Not something that could just mutate randomly. http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-do-electric-eels-gene/ Yes, what Chang does is something anyone can develop (though being able to shock ppl isn't really the point). Edited June 20, 2014 by KenBrace
dimreepr Posted June 20, 2014 Posted June 20, 2014 You would be better served, Ken, searching for a way to be content with your life; rather than searching for the unanswerable question of death; “The past is history, the futures a mystery but now is a gift; that’s why it’s called the present”, IOW live when you can, you’re a long time dead. 2
KenBrace Posted June 20, 2014 Author Posted June 20, 2014 Nah. You can just be content if you want but I've found something real and I'm going to stick with it. I'm a skeptic but not a brickwall with an unchanging, dogmatic worldview that can't be altered even with scientific evidence. I am willing to investigate anything that has valid evidence to support it.
dimreepr Posted June 20, 2014 Posted June 20, 2014 Whatever floats your boat mate, but what could be better than to simply be content, now?
KenBrace Posted June 20, 2014 Author Posted June 20, 2014 (edited) Whatever floats your boat mate, but what could be better than to simply be content, now? Because I'd be deluding myself. It's like a pack dogs running towards you and instead of looking for a nearby tree and making a run for it, you just sit there and be content. Edited June 20, 2014 by KenBrace
dimreepr Posted June 20, 2014 Posted June 20, 2014 (edited) Not at all, it's perfectly possible to be content whilst making a run for it. Edit/ I’d certainly be content in the knowledge, I’m avoiding death. Edited June 20, 2014 by dimreepr
John Cuthber Posted June 20, 2014 Posted June 20, 2014 Because I'd be deluding myself. It's like a pack dogs running towards you and instead of looking for a nearby tree and making a run for it, you just sit there and be content. But the tree you are heading for is imaginary. As far as anyone can tell, it might be like seeing the dogs, drawing a "magic" pentagram round yourself to stop them and then waiting contentedly. 1
Moontanman Posted June 20, 2014 Posted June 20, 2014 He was tested for trickery. The only way that he could have performed the electical demo with trickery is with an elctrical device (those type of machienes didn't even exist in the 1980s), but he was checked for metal and stripped to a shirt. An electrical device like that would also have to have a ground. There is simply no way that he could have slipped a device past the metal detector and plain sight. You do realize that the electrical trickery you assert wasn't available in the 1980s has been in use as magic show trick since the 1880s at least. It was common and wide spread among traveling magic shows in the wild west.
KenBrace Posted June 20, 2014 Author Posted June 20, 2014 (edited) But the tree you are heading for is imaginary. As far as anyone can tell, it might be like seeing the dogs, drawing a "magic" pentagram round yourself to stop them and then waiting contentedly. Magic doesn't exist. Physics does. You do realize that the electrical trickery you assert wasn't available in the 1980s has been in use as magic show trick since the 1880s at least. It was common and wide spread among traveling magic shows in the wild west. There is (private) footage of Chang shocking over 100 people at a time. This isn't some weak, static electricity thing. He also performed other demos besides the electric shock but those weren't performed while under the scrutiny of scientists. Demonstrations Performed In Front Of Scientsts: Electrical shock Uncontrollable movements caused by electrical current through muscles Lighting a lightbulb Demonstrating electrical current with a volt meter Other Demonstrations Caught On Film: Catching a rifle pelet Lighting paper on fire Healing Laurn Blair's eye Shocking Over 100 People All At Once And again there is a very nice list of scientific evidence for real abilities in my signature. You are welcome to check it out and let me know what you think. Or you can just ignore it because it goes against your dogmatic worldview. Edited June 20, 2014 by KenBrace
MonDie Posted June 20, 2014 Posted June 20, 2014 Do you fear death? very rarely Why or why not? no idea What do you think happens after your short little life on Earth? decomposition When you are on your death bed what will you be thinking while staring in the face of death? "I've failed." 1
Moontanman Posted June 20, 2014 Posted June 20, 2014 Magic doesn't exist. Physics does. There is (private) footage of Chang shocking over 100 people at a time. This isn't some weak, static electricity thing. He also performed other demos besides the electric shock but those weren't performed while under the scrutiny of scientists. Demonstrations Performed In Front Of Scientsts: Electrical shock Uncontrollable movements caused by electrical current through muscles Lighting a lightbulb Demonstrating electrical current with a volt meter Other Demonstrations Caught On Film: Catching a rifle pelet Lighting paper on fire Healing Laurn Blair's eye Shocking Over 100 People All At Once And again there is a very nice list of scientific evidence for real abilities in my signature. You are welcome to check it out and let me know what you think. Or you can just ignore it because it goes against your dogmatic worldview. Your idea that static electricity is weak is fatally flawed, it can kill you if you don't know what you are doing, in the wild west magic shows they used to throw electrical discharges several feet, it was very dangerous took skill to manipulate. My world view is not dogmatic, just because I don't believe you doesn't mean I assert you are wrong but I would take quite a bit more than what you offer to convince me... All of the things you assert as proof are tired old magic tricks and scientists can be fooled as much as anyone else... 1
KenBrace Posted June 21, 2014 Author Posted June 21, 2014 (edited) Your idea that static electricity is weak is fatally flawed, it can kill you if you don't know what you are doing, in the wild west magic shows they used to throw electrical discharges several feet, it was very dangerous took skill to manipulate. My world view is not dogmatic, just because I don't believe you doesn't mean I assert you are wrong but I would take quite a bit more than what you offer to convince me... All of the things you assert as proof are tired old magic tricks and scientists can be fooled as much as anyone else... Fair enough. No way this could get past the metal detector and plain sight though (I'm sure it is a little larger than the original device of course)... To be honest the thing that convinced me the most is after investigating the books written by people that went out and became students of the guy. I know the family of one of the guy's and hear stories that his son has told over the phone. Spoken with students about what they've experienced and seen. etc. Here is an interview with a man that watched the original documentary in the 80s and saught Chang out. After finding him he was taken in as a student and continued the training until his recent death last year. Part 1 Part 2 Part 3 Part 4 Edited June 21, 2014 by KenBrace
Moontanman Posted June 21, 2014 Posted June 21, 2014 KenBrace, James Randi has a million dollars waiting for him not to mention the fame and fortune that would result in winning Randi's challenge, it seems unlikely this guy is anything but a gifted hoaxer.
KenBrace Posted June 22, 2014 Author Posted June 22, 2014 (edited) KenBrace, James Randi has a million dollars waiting for him not to mention the fame and fortune that would result in winning Randi's challenge, it seems unlikely this guy is anything but a gifted hoaxer. Chang is a self-made millionaire. He has no interest in Randi's million bucks. And fame is the exact opposite of what he wants. Also, do you seriously think Randi would let someone win the million dollars? He's making a fortune off the whole thing. Give me one reason why that guy would have an interest in being a hoax. He never once charged anyone for healing and obviously wasn't interested in fame due to the fact that he didn't even want the original footage to be public to start with. If he were interested in fame he would have come to the US and advertised. KenBrace, James Randi has a million dollars waiting for him not to mention the fame and fortune that would result in winning Randi's challenge, it seems unlikely this guy is anything but a gifted hoaxer. A hoax requires metal. You can't genrate electricity of any kind without the use of metal somewhere. Chang was checked with a metal detector. Of course that doesn't mean that he was proven to be authentic but it makes the chances of him being a hoax a heck of a lot slimmer so it's worth looking in to. ______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ There is another thing that you guys fail to see or just don't know about electricity. In order for a static charge to build when using a device, there has to be rubber separating the user from the ground. Chang was barefoot. There is simply no way that he could have built up some static charge using a device (not to mention the fact that the device would be metal). He was tested by scientists and medical doctors, stripped to a shirt, checked for metal, and still demonstrated his ability. I guess there is a 0.1% chance that he was using fraud but given the amount of evidence for his validity, how is this not worth looking in to??? "The device needs a grounding wire in order to work. If the person using the device is not separated by the rubber of their shoes a static charge will not build up and they will not be able to shock someone. This difference can easily be seen when a Qi user can produce Qi effects while sitting, or touching the person with another part of their body." -Charles Crawford, Electrical Engineer (Over 10 years experience) Edited June 22, 2014 by KenBrace -1
dimreepr Posted June 22, 2014 Posted June 22, 2014 And fame is the exact opposite of what he wants. And yet that’s exactly what’s happened. Also, do you seriously think Randi would let someone win the million dollars? He's making a fortune off the whole thing. Randi would have little choice if the tests are passed. Give me one reason why that guy would have an interest in being a hoax. “Chang is a self made millionaire” enough said I think. 1
John Cuthber Posted June 22, 2014 Posted June 22, 2014 Not a lot to do with the topic, but here's a video explaining John Chang's stunts, without needing magic.
dimreepr Posted June 22, 2014 Posted June 22, 2014 Not a lot to do with the topic, but here's a video explaining John Chang's stunts, without needing magic. Don’t worry; we haven’t been on topic, for well over a page now.
Moontanman Posted June 22, 2014 Posted June 22, 2014 Not a lot to do with the topic, but here's a video explaining John Chang's stunts, without needing magic. Did you forget the link?
John Cuthber Posted June 22, 2014 Posted June 22, 2014 Did you forget the link? Doh! Should I blame some sort of mystic influence for forgetting it the first time?
KenBrace Posted June 23, 2014 Author Posted June 23, 2014 (edited) And yet that’s exactly what’s happened. Randi would have little choice if the tests are passed. “Chang is a self made millionaire” enough said I think. Only because the Blair brothers published the footage without his approval. That's not how the Randi challenge works. In order for an individual to even be tested by Randi on the show they have to pass the pre-exam. This is done privately and out of the public eye. A waver also must be signed saying that you are not allowed to sue him. If you demonstrate real abilities in the pre-exam all he has to do is deny your application and you loose. He isn't required by law to give you the million bucks or allow you on the show. You can't file a law suite either. Chang made his money as a business partner to a large corperation. He never one charged a dime for his healings, nor accpeted any donations. It seems you are making claims without even researching. I think this shows that you aren't even interested in anything that defies your strict worldview even when scientific evidence is present. I don't expect anyone to simply believe what I have posted without reasearch (that would show a naieve individual) but isn't it worth looking in to? If something has gained credibility, how is it not worth researching? The only reason I can think of is if you have an unchanging, dogmatic worldview that doesn't change no matter what. Like religion. You can throw mountains of scientific evidence in the face of most religious people and it do absoutely nothing. It is because their world views are set in stone and no matter how much evidence is presented, they will wave it off and trust only in the Bible. And again there is a link in my signature to a thread containing more scientific evidence for such ablities and claims. Edited June 23, 2014 by KenBrace
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now