FASTER THAN THE SPEED OF LIGHT

[DARRYELREDMON]

It was thought a few hundred years ago that the earth was flat. Just as now, it is said that energy cannot go faster than the speed of light, the cosmic speed limit. Though in a simple observation you will learn energy can move a lot faster than light. Take 19 0's such as <0000000000000000000> with a line at the end. Let each 0 represent 10,000 miles of atoms, touching each other the distance of the 19 0's to the finish line at the end. Now one could say that light traveling at roughly 186,282 MPS would take over a second to travel the distance of the 19 0's to the finish line. Though one can observe, if one applies enough mechanical energy to move the 19 0's, to the first 0 the 19th 0 begins to move instantly. So to keep the balance of the atoms not ever taking up the same space. Proving energy can move instantly instead of just 186,282 MPS.

Edited June 23, 2014 by swansont
turned volume down

[Delta1212]

Eratosthenes calculated the circumference of the Earth around 200 BC. The idea that people thought the Earth was flat until a few hundred years ago is a myth.

 

Secondly, the motion would not be instantaneous from the first to last atom but would propagate down the line as a compression wave traveling at whatever the speed of sound is for the medium in question.

[pzkpfw]

Please don't shout. There's no need to make your text bigger than normal.

 

 

This is a common idea; people have many times come up with the idea of a very long rod of steel or whatever (you are not the first). They think if you push one end the other end must move "instantaneously".

 

But it won't, as Delta1212 points out, the motion moves at the speed of sound of whatever the rod is made of. Nature can't cheat.

 

 

As with much of this stuff, everyday experience doesn't prepare us for this. We don't "experience" time dilation, we don't "experience" length contraction, so relativity can seem "wrong".

 

Same with this. We all can imagine pushing a damp noodle, and seeing it squash so the end doesn't move "instantly", but if we push a steel rod we seem to see the whole thing move "at once".

 

But our limited perception is wrong.

 

 

(P.S. Starting an idea with "It was thought ... Earth flat ..." is also something that's been done before, many times. But while it seems like a nice "debate" way to preface an idea, it really adds zero worth to the post.)

Edited June 21, 2014 by pzkpfw

[Strange]

(P.S. Starting an idea with "It was thought ... Earth flat ..." is also something that's been done before, many times. But while it seems like a nice "debate" way to preface an idea, it really adds zero worth to the post.)

 

After all it was once thought that Earth was round ... and it still is!

[ajb]

It sounds like you are trying to have a rigid body here, or something close to that. Special relativity does not allow true rigid bodies more or less for the reason you state. You cannot have transfer of information faster than the speed of light. As has been pointed out to you by Delta1212, for any physical body the compression wave is limited to the speed of sound in that body, and this is not infinite.

 

Just hand-waving, as the interaction between the atoms is electromagnetic in origin the speed at which any wave could travel along such a line of atoms must be at most c.

[xyzt]

Proving energy can move instantly instead of just 186,282 MPS.

Energy doesn't move.

[DARRYELREDMON]

I JUST ASK THAT BEFORE YOU DISREGARD THIS STATEMENT. YOU ASK YOURSELF IF THE SUN DISAPEARED WOULD THE EARTHS ORBIT CHANGE INSTANTLY. ACCORDING TO THIS STATEMENT IT WOULD. TO SIMPLIFY IT FURTHER "TAKE A PEN AND PUSH IT THE OTHER SIDE OF IT BEGINS TO MOVE INSTANTLY EVEN THOUGH IT DOES NOT CONTINUE TO MOVE AT THAT SPEED NORMALY." MECHANICAL ENERGY IS CONDUCTED THROUGH THE MATTER TO KEEP THE BALANCE OF GRAVITY. JUST THINK IT WAS THOUGHT THAT WE WERE THE CENTER OF THE UNIVERSE JUST A FEW HUNDRED YEARS AGO. JUST AS NOW WE SAY ENERGY CANT MOVE FASTER THAN LIGHT YET WE WATCH PENS MOVE. PLEASE WRITE BACK AN EXPLAIN HOW A CHANGE IN THE INERTIA OF THE OPPOSING SIDE OF THE PEN MOVES IF NOT AN EXCHANGE OF ENERGY. IS IT ESP MAKING THE ATOMS NEVER TAKE UP THE SAME SPACE AND FUSE.

Edited June 23, 2014 by swansont
turned volume down

[Janus]

If the Sun were to suddenly disappear, the Earth's orbit wouldn't change for ~8 min (the same amount of time as it would take for us to notice that it was gone by visual means.

 

Once again, the two ends of the pen do not move instantly. when you push one end it compresses the atoms together( the atoms in any solid are not like little balls all touching each other. There is more space between them than the room the atoms take up. What accounts for the rigidity of the object is the electrostatic forces acting between the atoms). This compression wave then has to travel through the pen at the speed of sound for the material the pen is made of before the other end starts to move.

 

The speed of sound in solids can be in the thousands of meters per sec, so for a pen a few inches in length we are talking about a delay of less than 1/10000 of a sec between the ends moving. Too short to be noticed by the naked eye, but still not instantaneous.

[Mordred]

I JUST ASK THAT BEFORE ....

 

 

could you please use a smaller font this is annoying to read.

Edited June 23, 2014 by Mordred

[Strange]

I JUST ASK THAT BEFORE YOU DISREGARD THIS STATEMENT.

 

It hasn't been disregarded. Your misunderstanding has been explained to you.

 

 

TAKE A PEN AND PUSH IT THE OTHER SIDE OF IT BEGINS TO MOVE INSTANTLY

 

Writing this in CAPS does not make it true.

 

As has been explained, this is not instant. The force is propagated at the speed of sound (even slower than the speed of light).

Edited June 23, 2014 by Strange

[Ophiolite]

@DARRYELREDMON

 

I'm with you 100% on the interest in and enthusiasm for knowledge about the world and the way it works.

I'm with you 100% on the notion that some of what we know today may turn out to be faulty.

 

I'm therefore really disappointed that you appear unwilling to grasp a great opportunity to learn something. It has been explained to you - I think with great clarity - why your idea of a rigid rod moving instantaneously is wrong. Yet you choose to ignore this. You are choosing ignorance over knowledge. Is that a wise choice?

 

Please reflect on what you have been told and ask questions if necessary, but abandon your foolish and incorrect idea now. (And, as others have asked, please stop with the giant capital letters. It is embarrassing.)

[xyzt]

I JUST ASK THAT BEFORE YOU DISREGARD THIS STATEMENT. YOU ASK YOURSELF IF THE SUN DISAPEARED WOULD THE EARTHS ORBIT CHANGE INSTANTLY. ACCORDING TO THIS STATEMENT IT WOULD.

Yet, according to mainstream physics, the Earth's orbit would take a little over 8 minutes to change. Gravitational waves propagate at the speed of em waves, which is "c". Contrary to your misconceptions, they don't propagate with infinite speed. This is why the Sun disappearance does not have an instantaneous effect on the Earth.

 

 

 

TO SIMPLIFY IT FURTHER "TAKE A PEN AND PUSH IT THE OTHER SIDE OF IT BEGINS TO MOVE INSTANTLY EVEN THOUGH IT DOES NOT CONTINUE TO MOVE AT THAT SPEED NORMALY."

 

Nope, when you push a pen of length [math]L[/math] at one end, the other end will start moving after a delay of [math]\Delta t=\frac{L}{s}[/math] where [math]s[/math] is the speed of sound in the material that the pen is made from. Repeating the same crank ideas over and over doesn't make them true.

Edited June 23, 2014 by xyzt