DOES LIGHT ACTUALLY TRAVEL?

[Dr. Funkenstein]

First allow me to state that I view light in two categories, man made and Natural light. As indistinguishable as the two type's may be at times, I make the distinction. All light being electoral magnetic radiation stems from a source. In man made light, this source is reflectors, heat, etc. etc. In natural light the source is exponential heat and a combination of combustible material. this exponential and material is my distinction.

 

To see a star in the night sky is the visible indication of a light source, now can we say for a fact that this light is traveling to our eye's receptors, or that our eye receptors have focused (reached) on the light. our knowledge of light travel comes from our sun and it's great distance from our planet. Math the distance over time and we relate speed of travel.

 

Lets assume for a minute, that the sun despite it's distance from us, that it's electoral magnetic radiation does not travel, instead our planet is within a direct zone of influence, of the source of it's (the sun) light. This directness is therefore constant within the zone of influence of the sun, It does not travel to us , we are within it. The planet rotates on it axis bringing about night and day as it rotates from darkness into day, the daylight has no travel to do since it's merely waiting for the planet to turn and there is the light. This constant light forever on one side or another shows that the planet is within a zoned range of the source of the light. the distance has zero effect, since it doesn't have to be traversed, we are in it. See the sun, take into account it's mass, and it's influence, as a result of it's mass, can we now say that it's light has traveled to us or that our planet is within the influenced area of the sun light.

 

Other planets within our solar system are even farther away from the sun, we know that the light from the sun reaches them, but here again no traveling is required, these planets are also within the zone of influence, but too a lesser degree. Therefore the light photons reflect on them because they are in the degreed zone of influence, as are the planets closer to the sun. The source of the light is varying as to its effect on these other planets, and that effect wans the further out one goes. not because of distance, but because of its degree of influence, distance is of no real consequence, as it pertains to light travel perhaps because light is not traveling.

 

For man made light a possible experiment may prove the point. Take a laser and a receptive device space the two on a straight line of miles accounting for the curvature of the surface, examine rather the light reaches the receptor, or where it along the path drops off, if there is a drop off point that would be the zone of influence of the laser, if it reaches the receptor increase the mileage.

 

Finally I would like to add that to measure electoral magnetic radiation from another galaxy may be folly, since we are surrounded by the same, how then can one factually know the source without connecting it to a particular event.

 

 

[Strange]

We have measured the speed of light. Speed equals distance over time. Of course it travels.

 

 

Take a laser and a receptive device space the two on a straight line of miles accounting for the curvature of the surface, examine rather the light reaches the receptor, or where it along the path drops off, if there is a drop off point that would be the zone of influence of the laser, if it reaches the receptor increase the mileage.

 

What drop off are you referring to? The inverse square law? Or something else?

 

 

Finally I would like to add that to measure electoral magnetic radiation from another galaxy may be folly, since we are surrounded by the same, how then can one factually know the source without connecting it to a particular event.

 

Because you can see the object it came from.

[pzkpfw]

Stand in your lawn (on a day it needs watering) and have a friend spray you with your hose.

 

Turn around.

 

As you turn the water is constantly hitting you, on the side facing your friend.

 

But the water is clearly travelling from the hose, to you.

 

 

Given your concept adds nothing to the understanding of light, but adds a lot of complication (now we have twice the "kinds" of light?!) I don't see anything in it (no pun intended).

Edited June 26, 2014 by pzkpfw

[physica]

The photoelectric effect shows that light travels in packets on energy called quanta. Light has been shown to knock electrons off metal. There is no doubt that light travels.

[Ophiolite]

Can I vote against electoral magnetic radiation?

[Nicholas Kang]

Can I vote against electoral magnetic radiation?

 

No, you cannot. If yes, I can`t explain to my friends and family members how is it possible that WIFI, TV, Microwave oven and other electrical appliances work.

Stand in your lawn (on a day it needs watering) and have a friend spray you with your hose.

 

Turn around.

 

As you turn the water is constantly hitting you, on the side facing your friend.

 

But the water is clearly travelling from the hose, to you.

 

 

Given your concept adds nothing to the understanding of light, but adds a lot of complication (now we have twice the "kinds" of light?!) I don't see anything in it (no pun intended).

Good analogy

I think light does travel but my question is vacuum has no medium. If light is a wave, then it needs medium to vibrate and propogate. If light can travel through a vacuum, then what is the medium?

The photoelectric effect shows that light travels in packets on energy called quanta. Light has been shown to knock electrons off metal. There is no doubt that light travels.

Good example and this is how most solar cells work, am I right?

Edited June 26, 2014 by Nicholas Kang

[Strange]

As you turn the water is constantly hitting you, on the side facing your friend.

 

But the water is clearly travelling from the hose, to you.

 

No! The wet is just there waiting for you to turn!! And this is artificial water so ...

[Delta1212]

Can I vote against electoral magnetic radiation?

What we really need is a trade school to start training electoricians so someone can fix America's broken electoral system.

[Sensei]

Dr. Funkenstein, you showed us great amount of lack of knowledge.

 

At the beginning you should start from reading inverse square law.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverse-square_law

 

Which describes how particles are emitted in the all directions by sources like light bulb, LED, Sun etc.

 

as it pertains to light travel perhaps because light is not traveling.

 

Do you know that even this message went through fiber wire on the bottom of ocean with speed of light.. ?

Fiber wire is using photons to transfer data.

 

Buy 1 km fiber wire, 10 km fiber wire, 30 km fiber wire, connect them to laser, turn laser and measure delay.

 

[Janus]

@Dr. Funkenstein:

 

When presenting an hypothesis, you need to compare the conclusions arrived at from your hypothesis to that which we actually observed. When we do this, you idea fails on many levels.

 

If as you suggest, light from the Sun is just some direct influence rather than something that travels from Sun to Earth (and the other Planets), then there should be no time delay involved with light.

 

However, this was shown not to be true in 1676 by Ole Roemer. By observing and timing eclipses for the moons of Jupiter, he found that the timing of these eclipses varied in a way that could only be explained by the delay in the light coming from the moons. This delay changed with the changing distance between Earth and Jupiter as they orbited the Sun. By comparing how this changed when he saw the eclipses vs. what he would if there had not been a changing travel time for light, Roemer was able to get the first good value for the speed of light.

 

In addition, if there were no delay in the travel of light from planet to our eye, when we look at the planets we would see them where they are right now. However since we assume that the light took time to get from them to us, we take this into account when calculating their present position. These are the positions we use when launching our probes to these planets. For example, even at its closest, by using a finite travel time for light, it would take ~32 min for light to travel from Jupiter to Earth. in that time, Jupiter moves nearly 25,000 km. When we launched the Voyager probes, they had to hit a hit a very small window relative to Jupiter in order to give them just the right boost in the right direction to make it to Saturn, A miss by some 25,000 km (as would have been the case if our calculations in position due to light transmission time were in error) would have sent the Voyager probes off in wild different trajectories than we intended. They did not, they hit their mark with great accuracy.

 

At this point you might want to say, something along the lines that "Well, the light we see from the planets is reflected light, and reflected light might show a delay, but not light directly from the Sun."

 

However, there is an observation that disproves this also. At times, Venus passes between the sun and us. When this happens it blocks a part of the light from the Sun. Again, if the light from the Sun were an direct influence, this would happen instantaneously. The instant the edge of Venus passed the edge of the Sun, we would stop getting light from that part of the Sun and we would see a dark spot on the Sun. On the other hand, if light travels from Sun to Earth, that light which had already passed Venus on its way to Earth at the moment Venus got between the Earth and Sun would still continue on its way, any we would not see the black spot until all of that light had completed its journey.

 

Now, as long as the reflected light from Venus and the direct light from the sun travel at the same speed, then our predictions of when Venus starts its transit across the Sun (which are based on our observations of reflected light from Venus), will be in perfect agreement. This turns out to be the case. However, if the reflected light from Venus is delayed and the direct light from the Sun is not, then we would see Venus transit the Sun before we predict based on our observation of Venus during the rest of its orbit.

 

This fact and the above observations of the planets that shows that both reflected and direct light has a propagation delay. And a propagation delay with a 1 to 1 relationship to distance, indicates that this represents a travel time and that light travels from the source to destination whether is is of man-made or natural origin.

[ZVBXRPL]

I believe the Universe is an infinite continuum of matter. How would light "travel" in such a Universe? As a wave. The medium is the continuum of matter. This continuum is in a constant state of flux. Not only does light travel as a wave, but everything does. At the moment we view the Universe as particles existing within empty space and these particles move or travel through empty space. If the Universe is an infinite continuum of matter then there are no particles and there is no empty space.

[StringJunky]

I believe the Universe is an infinite continuum of matter. How would light "travel" in such a Universe? As a wave. The medium is the continuum of matter. This continuum is in a constant state of flux. Not only does light travel as a wave, but everything does. At the moment we view the Universe as particles existing within empty space and these particles move or travel through empty space. If the Universe is an infinite continuum of matter then there are no particles and there is no empty space.

Light does not need a medium. The electric field generates a magnetic field and vice versa oscillating orthogonal to each other ..,it is a discrete phenomenon AFAIK.

[Kramer]

String Junky say:

 

The electric field generates a magnetic field and vice versa
----- Electric field is created by electric charges in static status relative to each other. Magnetic field is created always by the movement of electric charge. You think that electric field and magnetic field exist independent from electric charge?
This is, i think, a ridlle for dispute.

[Phi for All]

I believe the Universe is an infinite continuum of matter. How would light "travel" in such a Universe? As a wave. The medium is the continuum of matter. This continuum is in a constant state of flux. Not only does light travel as a wave, but everything does. At the moment we view the Universe as particles existing within empty space and these particles move or travel through empty space. If the Universe is an infinite continuum of matter then there are no particles and there is no empty space.

 

!

Moderator Note

When someone starts a conversation with you about their idea on an online forum, it's considered VERY rude to interrupt with your own idea, rather than commenting on theirs. Especially when it's just as easy for YOU to start a conversation about YOUR idea in another thread, rather than trying to hijack this one. You've been warned about this a few times before.

 

Please take the time to read through some other threads for guidance if this concept continues to prove difficult.

[Dr. Funkenstein]

Delays due to eclipse of light travel. Roemer's observation in the particular is concise. However is not the light from the sun CONSTANT? Whatever obstruction which may delay or subvert the light, especially in one location, and not the whole body (earth), tell us only about obstructions and subversions, the constant of the light remains. So how can we say that it actually traveled. Take into account the mass of the sun, the range of it's corona, and the distance of this planet and others of this solar system, who argues that we are not within the zone of the suns influence. Therefore if the sunlight is constant, and we are within the zone of it's influence, then how do we deduce that the sunlight travels, taking 8 min 17 sec to reach earth, when sunlight is constant on earth somewhere everyday. @ Janus I will need time to investigate the remainder of your argument.

 

@ Sensei, My point exactly. The zone of influence (ZOI) of the suns light is in all directions. My distinction of light is based upon natural power and man made, with the distinction being on the amount of power per se. Your message is made possible by the conduit, stand on your roof and shine your flashlight in the general direction of the upper mid west. and see if it comes through then. Not trying to be funny here but your conduit is in fact the ZOI of the fiber optic transmission.

[Mordred]

Ok I hope your aware that the speed of light calculations are used every day in various industries. For example a personal project that required the speed of light was an automated paving application. Take a paving truck, place a series of photoelectric sensors to measure the bumps on the road. Then depending on how long it takes the light to reflect back to the sensor determines the size of the holes. The rest is controlling how much material to place. If light didn't travel at 300,000 km/s the measurements would have been off. Survey equipment also uses the same technique. These are just two simple applications.

 

Now as far as having to know the exact speed of light in Cosmology applications, the speed of light is a foundation of measurements, as such it is constantly tested. Tests include using celestial objects to long range lasers.

 

well as the speed of light is so fundamental to GR and SR this site has a good listing of the various tests, you can go through it to find the various light tests (including the one way and two way light tests etc.)

 

http://www.exphy.uni....prl78_4741.pdf
Non-Stationary Optical Cavities : http://www.exphy.uni....xiv0510169.pdf

there is even student level projects to measure the speed of light

http://twiki.hep.uiuc.edu/pub/Main/TeachersLight2/TOF-SpeedOfLight.pdf

 

in other words its used in our every day existence numerous times every day, it is constantly tested more often than any of us know about. The speed of light is critical in our everyday industry, as well as physics

 

if light didn't travel how would x-rays work in medical equipment?

how would laser distancing sensors work?

why is is we can measure the time delay in microwave links in communication equipment?

 

I could go on and on but quite frankly it doesn't take a physicist to google his own examples to see how many examples where light travels from a to b.

 

its so fundamental to our everyday lives that its used everyday all over the planet

Edited June 30, 2014 by Mordred

[Endy0816]

@Dr. Funkenstein:

 

We didn't determine the speed of light based on light straight from the Sun.

 

So while the Sun may be more or less constantly emitting radiation, in knowing the Sun's distance and the speed of light we can deduce the amount of time it takes that radiation to reach us.

 

You may also want to take a look at sunspot activity. You can prove to yourself that events happen on the Sun and it isn't just some giant bulb in the sky.

 

Note: Radiation spreads out roughly like so:

 

 

There are no 'zones of influence'. Provided nothing happens to it, radiation just keeps on going.

 

The closer you are to the source the more radiation you receive. You can still see Sigma Draconis though and bask in its rays.

[Deepak Kapur]

My two penny.....

 

It is said, For a photon there is zero time and zero distance.....??

 

This seems opposite to the idea that there can't be anything smaller than plank time and plank distance.

 

If this is true,a photon isn't travelling at all ( though physicists try to solve this problem by saying that 'photon's view point is undefined'.... how clever and orthodox of them....)

[Endy0816]

Planck time and distance represent limits on our ability to measure. Mordred can probably explain this better.

 

My two penny.....

It is said, For a photon there is zero time and zero distance.....??

If this is true,a photon isn't travelling at all

 

You are verging into relativity here. When we say light travels, we are referring to measurements taken from our own reference frame.

Edited June 30, 2014 by Endy0816

[StringJunky]

My two penny.....

 

It is said, For a photon there is zero time and zero distance.....??

AFAIK the photon frame is not a valid frame.

[Mordred]

My two penny.....

 

It is said, For a photon there is zero time and zero distance.....??

 

This seems opposite to the idea that there can't be anything smaller than plank time and plank distance.

 

If this is true,a photon isn't travelling at all ( though physicists try to solve this problem by saying that 'photon's view point is undefined'.... how clever and orthodox of them....)

 

this should be discussed in the relativity forum in regards to the photon, but one quick correction. As pointed out an outside observer A will measure an object traveling at near the speed of light (object B) as having a time dilation and length contraction object B however will neither experience a length contraction or time dilation, everything is normal form object B's reference frame.

 

 

Planck time and distance represent limits on our ability to measure. Mordred can probably explain this better.

 

 

You are verging into relativity here. When we say light travels, we are referring to measurements taken from our own reference frame.

 

there is already a reply in another thread for the planck measurement limitation,

http://www.scienceforums.net/topic/83896-photon-emission-split-from-length-contraction/?p=813124

 

this thread should stay on topic so further side track questions should be done in another thread