Religion and the virus analogy- how true does it hold for you?

[Iota]

For those interested I'd like to discuss the idea that, in at least one respect, and the one I'd like to concentrate on- religion behaves like a virus: because it spreads. It spreads from one host to another; it is an idea that can be put into a person's mind, and will end up in the mind of many others. It can be said to control the host for its own gain (to spread to more people), although it may sound foolish to suggest an idea can have its own motive or agenda- that is, to spread. It is much like a gene in that way, which again, cannot truly have a motive or agenda, but whose purpose is undeniably to replicate, and in the case of viral genes, to spread.

 

Do you think this analogy is fair or accurate?

 

[ydoaPs]

You might be thinking about memetics.

[Endy0816]

What causes someone to change religions though?

 

I've tried to work in the worthwhile bits of other religions, but can't say I've ever converted.

[Nicholas Kang]

What is the magnitude of your work? Very interesting in it/halfway to it/just know and understand a little stuff is enough?

 

Many factors cause someone to change religions though.

Some may be influenced by parents, friends and other possible sources.

Some may learn by themselves

Some may change due to relationships and sacrifices.

 

Slight and brief understanding about other religions is enough. In my opinion, this is not converting religion. This is respecting others` religion.

[iNow]

Do you think this analogy is fair or accurate?

 

I do, but I also think the same thing applies to other ideologies like libertarianism, socialism, racism, sexism, capitalism, and even more positive concepts like compassion! community, and others. As ydoaps already noted, you're basically describing memes and their propagation.

[Iota]

You might be thinking about memetics.

 

Cheers. I know of it, I'll look into it further.

 

 

What causes someone to change religions though?

 

I've tried to work in the worthwhile bits of other religions, but can't say I've ever converted.

 

Even if they change religion, they're still subscribing to religion. The accuracy of the analogy remains unchallenged by this proposal therefore, wouldn't you agree?

 

 

I do, but I also think the same thing applies to other ideologies like libertarianism, socialism, racism, sexism, capitalism, and even more positive concepts like compassion! community, and others. As ydoaps already noted, you're basically describing memes and their propagation.

 

Yeah good point. Perhaps then, I should have looked to discuss the apparent comparatively more effective propagating properties religion has over other memetics.

 

Political ideologies for example: much more rarely do parents feel the need to force a political ideology into their children's minds from a young age. People will often make their own mind up on which ideology they prefer by their own rationales, and will often switch between ideologies in their lifetime using the very same method of rationality. Rarely do people feel they are forced to subscribe to a political ideology, as they do religion, nor do they feel obligated to make others share their political beliefs.

 

I'd say religion is far more viral in character than over other memetics, not just because it's better at propagating, IMO. But also because of the nature by which it's spread, i.e. by obligation by the "host". Persons seem to feel they MUST spread religion, and they must NOT believe anything different.

Edited June 30, 2014 by Iota

[Ten oz]

A virus is able to exploit its host by using genetic material to convert the host's cell. Does a religion exploit humans in a similar way. Is there something ingrained in humans that allows for the blind faith which seems to be are the heart of most religions?

[iNow]

Is there something ingrained in humans that allows for the blind faith which seems to be are the heart of most religions?

The need to fit in socially with the larger tribe or group or pack, to more successfully survive and to not be ostracized from resources and protection and potential mates, and the inherent tendency we have to accept instructions from our parents and tribal elders (such as preachers or shaman).

[Phi for All]

Is there something ingrained in humans that allows for the blind faith which seems to be are the heart of most religions?

 

I think it's ignorance. We have questions without answers, and religion often provides a very short, non-intellectually challenging explanation that satisfies us until we observe differently. When we know why something works the way it does, when we remove our ignorance, religious explanations are no longer needed.

 

But if nobody ever teaches you how to think critically, the short answers like, "God works in mysterious ways" can provide a big old blanket of comfort you can hide from your fears under.

[Iota]

A virus is able to exploit its host by using genetic material to convert the host's cell. Does a religion exploit humans in a similar way. Is there something ingrained in humans that allows for the blind faith which seems to be are the heart of most religions?

 

Something I'm definitely interested in finding out. I think over and above the fact it's comforting (the promise of heaven), the way religion really grips and ingrains itself in the mind is very simple, fear. The threat of hell, and they knowledge that God is omnipresent. This means you constantly have something to be afraid of, and that something is free-thought; thinking out of line. It's a total and constant surveillance of your mind, by the very thing that promises to torture you for eternity if you don't obey it..

 

Religion's success at propagating, IMO, is the fact it preys on the minds of the naive- primarily children, and the fact that it can easily last out throughout adulthood. Adults therefore implanting religion in the minds of children, each generation, and repeat. It's a very effective method. As a child you're susceptible because you lack knowledge, common sense, rational thought process and wisdom. Once you become an adult, and gain knowledge, common sense, rational thought process and wisdom, most of the time that isn't enough to shed a person of religion. Because the person in question won't apply these attributes to religion; because religion doesn't allow you to, out of fear. Common sense and fact are applied to every aspect of your life, every corner of your mind, EXCEPT for one corner of your mind- that's where religion resides. That's how it makes itself immune from questioning, from challenging; how the spell remains unbroken.

 

Take this as merely another analogy, and not a serious part of this discussion; seeing as anecdotes and analogical comparisons aren't a real part or focus of my argument, except in the generic sense, and therefore holds little value. But I think it could be helpful to imagine religion is a virus in this respect also. The immune system protects you against pathogens (harmful micro-organisms)- the same way rationality 'protects' the mind against nonsense and falsehoods of all sorts. The problem is, viruses hide themselves in the cells of the host, meaning the immune system can't see the threat, because it's hidden within the normal body, and therefore the threat isn't detected. Religion does something similar in this respect, by sheltering in itself somewhere where the mind's 'immune system' won't attack it.

 

If you overcome that defence, you can cure viruses. If you overcome that defence, you can cure religion.

Edited June 30, 2014 by Iota

[imatfaal]

You might be interested in the excellent Snowcrash by Neal Stephenson which engages with many of these points directly - it is also a rattling good read if you enjoy Sci-Fi.

[Ten oz]

@ lota, I believe it is more than fear. Religion becomes so important to some people that they happily live down they lives for it. In a way faith provides those people with courage.

I think religion is born out of narcissistic delusion. People want to believe that they are more important than they are. That the universe exists merely for man and those who disagree are not just wrong but will be violently punished for doubting it. That is why so many religions have an alpha male for a god. An all powerful god that wastes his time and powers telling humans the way he wants it on every small personal issue we humans can imagine. A non human, non earth bound, all powerful and immortal lifeform that is petty enough to care about my opinion of him. God is just the Batman to our Bruce Wayne. A manifestation of our desire to control the world and be better than others.

[Moontanman]

Being an atheist religion does look like an infectious disease from my perspective. I've seen people abandon all reason in favor of mythology, some people even allow religion to kill their children. Some people seem more susceptible than others and some people are more infectious than others, a great many of the infected think it's their primary goal in life to infect others.

 

Yeah, religion acts much like an infectious agent...

Edited July 1, 2014 by Moontanman

[Iota]

You might be interested in the excellent Snowcrash by Neal Stephenson which engages with many of these points directly - it is also a rattling good read if you enjoy Sci-Fi.

 

Thanks I'll give it a look!

 

 

@ lota, I believe it is more than fear. Religion becomes so important to some people that they happily live down they lives for it. In a way faith provides those people with courage.

I think religion is born out of narcissistic delusion. People want to believe that they are more important than they are. That the universe exists merely for man and those who disagree are not just wrong but will be violently punished for doubting it. That is why so many religions have an alpha male for a god. An all powerful god that wastes his time and powers telling humans the way he wants it on every small personal issue we humans can imagine. A non human, non earth bound, all powerful and immortal lifeform that is petty enough to care about my opinion of him. God is just the Batman to our Bruce Wayne. A manifestation of our desire to control the world and be better than others.

 

Agreed, there is absolutely more than one reason behind it. I just feel these things are believed so vividly, to the level of paranoid schizophrenia, hence the fear aspect being so strong.

Edited July 1, 2014 by Iota

[hoola]

I agree with the virus analogy to the degree that I see the human spread of "combed" virus, or religion, as rules of order of one specific belief system, being subsets of the inherent viral informational component of the mathematical object the universe may be. Any and all information that is available for sentience to become aware of is within the object, of which created and continues to describe the universe. The segments of information that are logical describes the physical universe, the rest are illogical, but still exist within the algorithm as it continues. The algorithm requires the illogical "junk dna" as carriers that support the later described logical " dna". The transcribeable dna structure is dependent upon the junk dna for it's overall structure parameters, and visa versa...so one might thank "god" that we have such an interesting universe to evolve in, and take care not to overuse illogic as a basis for logical thinking...although it's everpresence should and can be appropriately expressed in human culture...as I don't think "god" would like us to take our skewed view on reality too seriously just yet...

[iNow]

^Word salad. Could you perhaps try to rephrase that more simply? It meanders a bunch and the sentences do not really follow. It's basically incoherent, TBH. Is it possible you're using first-person example to demonstrate how the religion virus may have unintended consequences in other parts of the mind, specifically the areas related to language and clear communication?

Edited July 7, 2014 by iNow

[hoola]

yes iNOW, I will try to restate my above entry by saying that the mathematical object that describes the universe and has 2 main informational components, logical and illogical. The logic component describes the physical universe, and the illogical is the information that is shielded from the physical universe, as there seems to be a logic "firewall" that doesn't permit things like deities, flying pigs, and re-assembling broken eggs from happening. That is the "combed", as in "filtered out", reference I previously stated. (There is a thing in electronics called a "comb filter" and it removes certain information in the data stream, and allows others to pass...)The illogic is a component, and a necessary ingredient in the math object, and since sentience is a sub-set of the object, our imaginations can access all kinds of fantasy gods from the illogic component, and that is indeed how we can imagine them. A description of all information, logical or illogical you can think of is within the object, and has been there prior to our individual births....this set an upper limit on free will in the human condition..I am sorry to be obscure, and I sometimes write with the pre-conceived notion that the reader has read most (or at least some) of my previous posts dealing with my IBH flow-chart, which would make my previous post rather mundane and an obvious re-statement of the basic principles of the IBH system. The system is directly applicable to the topic in question....I hope this is better.

Edited July 8, 2014 by hoola

[ccwebb]

You might be thinking about memetics.

 

I couldn't agree more. Anything can be compared to a virus then. From clothing attire to language and even to sporting events. (The shrine of the tailgate)

Edited July 18, 2014 by ccwebb