YT2095 Posted February 15, 2004 Share Posted February 15, 2004 you`de have certainly thought so wouldn`t you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atinymonkey Posted February 15, 2004 Share Posted February 15, 2004 Well, actually yes. Without dispensation from the secretary of state, the hand guns (apart from the target pistol) are all on the illegal list unless certified as de-commissioned. Both the Sig Saur and the PPK have specific rules that class them as illegal handguns and although they may fall into the 1919–1945 period would not normally be considered rare, unless a war trophy with relevant documentation. The exceptions to that rule would be guns of historic importance, such as the gun that shot Lennon etc. There are only 7 civilian sites in the UK where live historic pistols may be stored. That’s all covered in Firearms (Amendment) Act 1997 and the Firearms Act (1968). In 1997/98/99/2000 > around 250 handguns where stolen from registered users. This statistic has the effect of making dispensation to own illegal firearms (Form 11) drop to only 2 issuings in the last year to civilians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fafalone Posted February 15, 2004 Share Posted February 15, 2004 atinymonkey said in post # : Violent crime, manslaughter, murder and grievous bodily harm all being separate crimes then yes. I’m aware that violent crimes diminish. Crime itself doesn’t disappear; think of it as silly putty in society that just comes out of a different hole when you block one up. With interesting unexpected results, mostly involving violence. Oh so you're familiar with these towns? I guess we saw different statistics, because the owns I saw showed no change either way in non-violent crime rates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted February 15, 2004 Share Posted February 15, 2004 and you also assume: I live in the UK. they are not cardboard cutouts from magazines put on lego bricks to make them look 3D. that maybe they only fire blanks. that maybe for my job I`m liscensed to own them as working weapons. that they are mine. that they were mine b4 the law changed. they could be a "special effect" prop. I paid good money for them and refused to hand them in your choice I could continue, but that would be boring and make it harder for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuTze Posted February 15, 2004 Share Posted February 15, 2004 YT2095 said in post # :and you also assume: I live in the UK. You've told us several times you live in the UK, just outside Birmingham. It says 'From: Good Ol' England' in your profile. they are not cardboard cutouts from magazines put on lego bricks to make them look 3D. Clearly they aren't that maybe they only fire blanks. Maybe, but it's hard to believe you'd spend "nearly a thousand" on blank-firers. They could be airsoft replicas but "nearly a thousand" sounds a bit steep that maybe for my job I`m liscensed to own them as working weapons. Handguns are illegal, you can't get a license for them. that they were mine b4 the law changed. Then you should have handed them in to be destroyed. You've said 'one' of them isn't with you any more, assuming that one is a pistol, what about the other two? I paid good money for them and refused to hand them in If that is the case you're a moron with no respect for the law or other peoples lives. I could continue, but that would be boring and make it harder for you Please do. I for one would be interested to know why you think it's necessary to keep a bunch of illegal weapons in the home, assuming of course that you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atinymonkey Posted February 15, 2004 Share Posted February 15, 2004 fafalone said in post #129 : Oh so you're familiar with these towns? I guess we saw different statistics, because the owns I saw showed no change either way in non-violent crime rates. Ah, the old hidden statistics. Quote them but don't source them, best way to keep an discussion vauge. YT2095 said in post #130 :and you also assume: I live in the UK.............. ....are not cardboard cutouts from magazines put on lego bricks to make them look 3D..I paid good money for them and refused to hand them in your choice I could continue, but that would be boring and make it harder for you Why would you wish to make anything harder for anyone? I just quoted the relevant code and subsidiary documentation. If you exempt then that’s super, but that won’t change the law for the rest of the UK citizens (which is what LuTuze was asking). It’s not all about you, you know! The end of this month I’m interviewing with the head of Intelligence for West Yorkshire Police, for a position as an Intelligence Analyst, so you might understand why those figures are in close recall in my mind. I’m an analyst; it’s what I do. Just out of interest then, what is it that you do for a living? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted February 15, 2004 Share Posted February 15, 2004 LuTze said in post # :If that is the case you're a moron with no respect for the law or other peoples lives. well that`s earned you warning points! my post was entirely rhetorical, and didn`t require a response, and certainly not of that nature! fact is you DON`T KNOW how I may own these as my post showed. any assumption on your part is purely that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuTze Posted February 15, 2004 Share Posted February 15, 2004 Did you miss the "If that is the case" bit at the start of the sentance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atinymonkey Posted February 15, 2004 Share Posted February 15, 2004 Whut, warning points? But he's right; anyone who owns illegal would be a moron by definition. He didn’t call you a moron. Why is everything confrontational with you at the moment? You seem to take offence very quickly with little provocation. I went and explained why I posted the laws concerning handguns, even explained my job role, but your just doling out warning points again. Do you hate us? Can you not just clarify the situation concering the handguns? Perhaps you are still connected to the military? Would that not be simpler? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuTze Posted February 15, 2004 Share Posted February 15, 2004 FYI YT, here's a pic of my 'guns': - http://www.phiji.com/images/guns.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fafalone Posted February 15, 2004 Share Posted February 15, 2004 atinymonkey said in post # : But he's right; anyone who owns illegal would be a moron by definition. I guess we're all morons then, since theres hardly a single person who hasn't broken some law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atinymonkey Posted February 15, 2004 Share Posted February 15, 2004 That's quite true (well, not that we are all morons). But the law in the UK on that class of handgun carrys a 15 year jail term, minimum. That's not so smart a law to ignore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted February 15, 2004 Share Posted February 15, 2004 LuTze said in post # :Did you miss the "If that is the case" bit at the start of the sentance? Or indeed, the fact that you responded to a hypothetical and not an instance of known fact. Minelaying can be as bad as trolling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted February 15, 2004 Share Posted February 15, 2004 fafalone said in post # :I guess we're all morons then, since theres hardly a single person who hasn't broken some law. I think he means "people who own firearms that are illegal in the UK, illegally, in the UK." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glider Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 YT2095 said in post # : well that`s earned you warning points! my post was entirely rhetorical, and didn`t require a response, and certainly not of that nature! You actually gave warning points for that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaKiri Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 Why do people need guns anyway? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT2095 Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 to shoot people like you why else? LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuTze Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 Don't you think you should take this to a mods forum or PM? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 Where the "if" evaluates to true, YT kept guns despite them being illegal because he "wants to". That would be putting his property in danger of confiscation, his home in danger of being raided, and his person in danger of receiving harm. For no good reason. Now, I can see how he'd be miffed at the prospect of losing a lot of money if he handed in his weapons on an amnesty day, but that's immaterial. The fact is that LuTze's labelling of the above behaviour as "moronic" is his generic opinion of people who keep illegal weapons and has nothing to do with respecting mods on a forum. [edit] this is like a practical example of where the law falls short of pleasing everyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaKiri Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 YT2095 said in post # :to shoot people like you why else? LOL. Good argument. I vote for Lutze. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 Thinking about it, YT does have a good point in that there's little incentive (other than it being illegal of course) to hand in weapons. The .gov could exchange the weapon for the same value in Debenham's vouchers or something. Or a council tax rebate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaKiri Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 Sayonara³ said in post # :Thinking about it, YT does have a good point in that there's little incentive (other than it being illegal of course) to hand in weapons. Surely that argument also applies for burglary and murder? Aside from the risk of imprisonment (or similar) they sound like a good idea (talking as an individual taking the right, rather than society) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 Burglars don't usually give you stuff. Murderers sometimes do, but they still have to pay for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaKiri Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 Sayonara³ said in post # :Burglars don't usually give you stuff. Murderers sometimes do, but they still have to pay for it. I was referring to the first paragraph, exclusively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayonara Posted February 16, 2004 Share Posted February 16, 2004 How does it not still apply? [edit] Oic. We're back at deciding where to draw the line in the sand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts