-Demosthenes- Posted February 21, 2004 Posted February 21, 2004 Only one thing can kill people! Guns can't kill people, people can't kill people. Death kills people, it's a proven medical fact
Cap'n Refsmmat Posted February 21, 2004 Posted February 21, 2004 Oh, be quiet. I hope you got my point!
-Demosthenes- Posted February 21, 2004 Posted February 21, 2004 I did. Guns aren't responcible for deaths, the people are. However, the gun plays a role in that death, and if taken away would prevent such an act. So we are left to one conclusion in order to save these people and prevent future incidents: Get rid of the guns, or get rid of the bad guys.
YT2095 Posted February 21, 2004 Posted February 21, 2004 Sayonara³ said in post # :SOME People with guns do kill people. Fixed
Sayonara Posted February 21, 2004 Posted February 21, 2004 YT2095 said in post # : Fixed -1 redundant It's true, but already demonstrated in reply #200.
YT2095 Posted February 21, 2004 Posted February 21, 2004 the opening line was a triffle ambiguos however, and needed reiteration. I`m assuming here, but I was brought up with guns from a VERY early age, my Grandfather taught how to shoot from the age of about 5 (we used to stand for hours on the edge of the bath with a gun each trained through a tiny 1 foot x 2 foot window like snipers just waiting for a Rat to come into the veiw feild down the garden. I was shown how to clean guns, how to load them, how to handle them, how to breathe and more importantly how to be patient waiting for your target. I was only 5 years old then, I`ve been around guns on and off ever since. they are a GREAT tool! and certainly nothing to fear (or ban). treat them with respect and they`ll serve you well forever. I like old Cannons too (I don`t own one) but if I won the lottery I would sure buy one and use it once a year on new years eve am I dangerous???? maybe/maybe not, but it`s not my Guns that make it swing eitherway, that choice would be entirely mine alone!
Sayonara Posted February 21, 2004 Posted February 21, 2004 YT2095 said in post # :the opening line was a triffle ambiguos however, and needed reiteration. Why? The full explanation was immediately below it. I definitely thing you should buy a cannon.
YT2095 Posted February 21, 2004 Posted February 21, 2004 LOL, I`m dead serious about the cannon bit man I`de like a "ye olde worlde" brass cannon (working condition). that ya could fire a sock full af sand off a cliff somewhere just to hear the BOOM echo of surrounding hills. and actualy be the one to light the fuse!!! I`de love that get it all nice and shiny polished then WALLOP! smack on 12am Jan 1`st each year, what a rush )
MishMish Posted February 21, 2004 Posted February 21, 2004 Not quite the same perhaps, but in Cairo they fire a cannon to announce the end of the fast during Ramadan, so went to watch one evening. They seemed quite pleased to have someone show some interest Next class day, arriving early and being unsure what to say to my instructor, rather old school, mentioned it for small talk. He simply looked at me and asked why, they play it over the radio.
YT2095 Posted February 22, 2004 Posted February 22, 2004 I pity him, he`s missing out on a cool experience, and actualy BEING THERE and feeling it as well as seeing it cannot compare to the `POP` sound you may hear on a radio, no matter how much echo they try and put on it in the studio there are some things you just can`t beat experiencing first hand I`m glad you enjoyed it, I would have done too ! also: atinymonkey said in post # : Acceptance is not a natural state for society, but you can help work against that by trying to be more accepting on your own. We all, to a degree, have traits that are undesirable; the trick is to recognise them and deal with them. Trying to justify reasoning for bigoted views is just puerile naïve undeveloped tosh. does that mean yer cool with me being a Gun Owner then? Acceptance and all that?
-Demosthenes- Posted February 22, 2004 Posted February 22, 2004 "fixed"?? What did you mean, I'm rather clueless most of the time Anyway, I think most people with guns are just fine, but what are we going to do about the people who are shooting other people?
Cap'n Refsmmat Posted February 22, 2004 Posted February 22, 2004 Shoot them! No, that's just the problem. We can't solve it entirely (psychological exams could help, but not solve, the problem) so just get a good police force.
iglak Posted February 23, 2004 Posted February 23, 2004 get everyone in america to stop thinking: "umm... guns are bayd, m'kay?" once we acomplish this, the fear will stop. this will stop the fear of learning how to use them, which will stop the improper use, and will enhance self defense and proper use. there is an easy way to do this, stop thinking it yourself, and stop teaching it to others. P.S. the same goes for drugs, other weapons, breaking laws, and discrimination. America doesn't really teach their citizens anything, it only teaches them how to fear things... BAD AMERICA! <edit> evidence: the many people that actually train themselves on how to use guns (or drugs, or everything else for that matter) are the ones that use them least and only when they know they absolutely have to.
JaKiri Posted February 23, 2004 Posted February 23, 2004 The main problem with guns is precisely the opposite; when there's familiarity, and familiarity breeds a lack of respect. Furthermore, guns have the potential to kill when others don't. What if a midgit attacked me with a candlestick? It'd be pretty simple to beat him off. A midgit with a gun is another matter. I'm in favour of banning all weapons that, some point along the way, don't rely on human effort as their power source. So bows are ok (do you know how difficult it is to shoot a bow with any degree of accuracy?), guns are not. And so on. Furthermore, 'Guns don't kill people, people kill people' (or any of the variations) is pretty limited, because there are quite a lot of accidental deaths with guns. Oh, and to hold the US up as having a lot of gun crime because there are a lot of guns is a fallacy. Canada has a lot of guns, but relatively low gun crime (possibly because they all live hundreds of miles away from eachother).
YT2095 Posted February 23, 2004 Posted February 23, 2004 does that extend to cars too? a large peice of metal that can travel at high velocity and kill more often than guns do, with a foot on the gas as opposed to a trigger? any one that keeps a loaded gun stored is a fool, you load the gun if you intend to use it imediately. it`s the equiv of leaving a box of matches in the fireworks tin or det caps next to the dynamite or petrol next to the chip pan. we never keep our guns loaded and the ammo is in a different room as well. after a shooting session and you`ve checked your gun is empty, you pass it to someone else to double check ALWAYS! as for canada (I lived there for 8 years) and it too has mega cities and ghetto type areas. but most kids I grew up with were bought their own gun from about the age of 10 upwards (usual a .22 riffle) and were taught how to shoot on farms and hunting trips, where 9 times out of 10 it`s not about hunting it`s shootin beer bottle caps off tree stumps familiarity does NOT breed lack of respect if you`re taught respect in the 1`st place!
Sayonara Posted February 23, 2004 Posted February 23, 2004 Cars that are designed with killing or maiming in mind as a primary function of their design are few and far between.
YT2095 Posted February 23, 2004 Posted February 23, 2004 that isn`t the prime function of my guns either or my darts that I enjoy playing. I agree that guns that (and more importantly the AMMO) that are designed for this should be outlawed for public possesion 100%. Fully automatic weapons especial sub machine guns ahve no place in civilised sosciety, I don`t know if you`ve ever used an Ouzie but they are totaly crap! past 6 foot, you`de be lucky to hit the side of a barn if you were standing inside it LOL they`re designed to kill and for use by people who aren`t all that bothered WHO it kills either. same with hollow point and armour peircing rounds, they don`t fly any better to the target (infact some are pretty dreadfull). but ordinary guns designed for target use (and all mine are and so is the ammo) should be left alone for their legitimate use in a valid sport. in fact if you look very closely at the Nickel Sig, it has a barrel extension for greater accuracy and it says TARGET on it
JaKiri Posted February 23, 2004 Posted February 23, 2004 YT2095 said in post # :that isn`t the prime function of my guns either or my darts that I enjoy playing. Guns (as a concept) were designed to kill (well, cause severe damage, if you're taking them as evolving from cannon). Cars (as a concept) were designed to move people about faster than walking without the need for horses. Furthermore, the car fulfils another function. What can you do with a gun other than shooting things? [edit] To reduce it down to a statement: 'Guns kill by their nature, whereas cars can only kill through an unwanted sideeffect'
Sayonara Posted February 23, 2004 Posted February 23, 2004 YT2095 said in post # :does that extend to cars too? a large peice of metal that can travel at high velocity and kill more often than guns do, with a foot on the gas as opposed to a trigger? YT2095 said in post # :that isn`t the prime function of my guns either or my darts that I enjoy playing. I didn't realise we were only discussing your guns. I guess that's my argument thrashed. It's like I said before; make the ammo $30,000 a piece and the problem solves itself. [edit] I have to say, I find the comparison between target pistols etc and things like cars (which can kill, but weren't designed to do so) to be invalid. A target pistol performs a single function. It's to help to teach you to shoot accurately, and to keep that skill sharp. So that you can operate a gun properly. That makes it a dedicated accessory to 'proper guns', so its sole function lies in the whole "making with the death" area. Not. A. Difficult. Connection. To. Make.
Sayonara Posted February 23, 2004 Posted February 23, 2004 MrL_JaKiri said in post # : Furthermore, the car fulfils another function. What can you do with a gun other than shooting things? Bludgeon things?
YT2095 Posted February 23, 2004 Posted February 23, 2004 "What can you do with a gun other than shooting things? " that`s all it has to do. it doesn`t mean that`s bad or boring? what can a pack of cards do, well not alot really, it all depends on the games you wish to play, same with darts with a gun there`s a variety of things you do as a sport, Quick fire, quick draw, timed, distance shooting etc... all are good fun, and very difficult at times. sayo, I used my guns as an example, there are MANY in the UK like me and I`me not the only one that has such a gun, my arg applies to all like me.
Sayonara Posted February 23, 2004 Posted February 23, 2004 YT2095 said in post # :"What can you do with a gun other than shooting things? " that`s all it has to do. it doesn`t mean that`s bad or boring? what can a pack of cards do, well not alot really, it all depends on the games you wish to play, same with darts What has that got to do with this discussion? sayo, I used my guns as an example, there are MANY in the UK like me and I`me not the only one that has such a gun, my arg applies to all like me. Oh I see, so your cunning reply to my argument was to discuss the guns that my argument wasn't discussing? Bonus.
YT2095 Posted February 23, 2004 Posted February 23, 2004 "What has that got to do with this discussion?" I dunno, I wasn`t the one that said it initialy
JaKiri Posted February 23, 2004 Posted February 23, 2004 YT2095 said in post # :"What has that got to do with this discussion?" I dunno, I wasn`t the one that said it initialy He wasn't referring to the line of argument, but to the irrelevent reply. For instance, card games generally all involve the dealing of cards (and the like). There aren't any card games I know that don't involve the properties of playing cards; like their values, and the like (except 52 card pick up, but that's more of a very bad joke). That's identical to saying that you can shoot many different things with a gun, therefore a gun can be used for more than just shooting (or at least that's what your reply was implying).
Recommended Posts