Eternal God

[Deepak Kapur]

If god is eternal, how did he traverse all the infinite time before the point, at which he thought of creating the universe?

[Delta1212]

Maybe he didn't.

[Phi for All]

I can't help but think there are multiple religious answers to this question. They will most likely be presented as fact, and they will contradict each other, and thus they will have limited meaning.

 

Science, on the other hand, would warn you about the dangers of treating infinity as a common number.

[Dekan]

If god is eternal, how did he traverse all the infinite time before the point, at which he thought of creating the universe?

When you say "the universe", you're naturally using the word to refer to the universe we're currently experiencing.

This current universe seems to have started about 13.4 BY ago. At the point of the Big Bang.

 

But perhaps there were earlier universes. Which were created, expanded, and eventually came to some kind of end. Big Crunch or Heat-Death, whatever.

They then got replaced by another universe, in an eternal succession of universes. Constantly created by an eternal God.

 

I think the thrust of your post is that an eternal god might have got bored, in the long time before He suddenly thought of the Big Bang.

 

But that's not so - couldn't His time have been fruitfully occupied in devising myriads of pre-BB universes?

[Deepak Kapur]

I can't help but think there are multiple religious answers to this question. They will most likely be presented as fact, and they will contradict each other, and thus they will have limited meaning.

 

Science, on the other hand, would warn you about the dangers of treating infinity as a common number.

Why should science warn, this scenario seems highly plausible/possible/even certain....

When you say "the universe", you're naturally using the word to refer to the universe we're currently experiencing.

This current universe seems to have started about 13.4 BY ago. At the point of the Big Bang.

 

But perhaps there were earlier universes. Which were created, expanded, and eventually came to some kind of end. Big Crunch or Heat-Death, whatever.

They then got replaced by another universe, in an eternalsuccession of universes. Constantly created by an eternal God.

 

I think the thrust of your post is that an eternal god might have got bored, in the long time before He suddenly thought of the Big Bang.

 

But that's not so - couldn't His time have been fruitfully occupied in devising myriads of pre-BB universes?

I mean that even if an eternal god had been creating an eternal succession of universes, how all this infinite time could be traversed to reach 'the present moment/time'

[Phi for All]

Why should science warn, this scenario seems highly plausible/possible/even certain....

 

Where do most of the biggest contradictions in religion come from? Omnipotence, omniscience, omnipresence, eternity, all based on infinite capabilities fueled by limitless power.

 

For me, it always comes down to this: If a god can ignore the physical laws of the universe and do whatever it pleases, why would it create them in the first place? Why do we have gravity if a god could make the universe work without it at the snap of its fingers?

 

I don't find eternity/omnipotence plausible at all. To me, it seems much more plausible that, if there is a being we would define as a god if we were to be introduced, this being would merely be more powerful than anything we could imagine but still have limitations. A higher power, if you will, capable of astounding things, but not omnipotent, and not capable of superseding the physical laws of the universe.

[iNow]

If god is eternal, how did he traverse all the infinite time before the point, at which he thought of creating the universe?

Since god(s) is(are) almost certainly made up, then so too can be the answer to this question. It's a bit like asking, "If leprechauns get erections at the sight of pink unicorns, how do they avoid bumping into narrow invisible doorways with their gentleman sausages?"

 

I recommend you step back for a moment here instead of spinning your wheels on "how many angels can dance on the head of a pin" type questions. First, let's demonstrate conclusively with empiricism that angels (or, in the case of your question, god(s)) actually exist before we start asking other questions about them.

Edited July 3, 2014 by iNow

[Dekan]

 

I mean that even if an eternal god had been creating an eternal succession of universes, how all this infinite time could be traversed to reach 'the present moment/time'

 

How would you define "the present moment/time"?

[Deepak Kapur]

OK. Let me substitute an eternal god with an eternal series of causes and effects.

 

How could that be traversed to reach here and now?

 

How would you define "the present moment/time"?

Good question.

 

I think relativistic effects came into play only when this universe was created.

 

I am talking about 'prior to big bang" i.e. i am talking in very generalised terms, not at all limited to this universe.

[PeterJ]

God is not eternal. This is a mater of logic. Try reading Meister Eckhart on the 'perennial present'. The idea that God is fundamental and yet exists in time is a non-starter for sound philosophical reasons. Or, that is to say, for common-sense reasons.

 

We have to get beyond such naive ideas of God for something that stands up to analysis. Even the long gone Parmenides and Zeno had more sophisticated ideas. If we argue against a God that exists eternally in time then we are arguing against our own incoherent invention.

 

For a sophisticated view of God it would not be correct to say that He exists, let alone that He is subject to time. On this point Keith Ward is very good, and he explains a lot in his book God: A Guide for the Perplexed.

 

For religion it is not necessary to believe in ideas that fail in logic, and I would recommend avoiding all attempts to do so.

Edited July 4, 2014 by PeterJ