Wind-Solar Power

[fiveworlds]

We have wind power generators here which are skyscrapers pretty much but I want to know if it is possible to convert the already exsisting towers hull into solar panelling to provide heated water to the surrounding villages which currently run on water heated by dwindling fossil fuels.

[iNow]

Of course you could place solar panels along the exteriors or "hulls" of the turbine towers. Am I missing some caveat in your question or reason why you expect they couldn't?

[fiveworlds]

Well the turbine towers are fairly oddly shaped and buying solar panels can be really expensive because they have to be imported. Also we have a time frame of about 27 years before we run out of fossil fuels. Thing is that the country has not been profitable lately and well frankly we are worried we wont be able to both ensure we are making money and provide heated water to the pharmaceutical industry which makes many of those nice vaccines you hear about.

[Endy0816]

Install solar water heaters?

 

Solar panels are inefficient if all you want is hot water. You lose energy by making electricity and then using that electricity to heat up water. Sunlight is quite capable of heating up water all on its own.

 

Main issue with the towers would be that most of the available locations would decrease the amount of sunlight falling on the solar panel. Almost everywhere but the very top would see power intake cut by at least half. Flat stretches of land or roofs would tend to be better options.

[fiveworlds]

Roofs around here aren't flat. Most are a less than 45° angled point. But they are a popular option all the same. You are saying however that all I would need to do is angle the solar panels on the tower? All government buildings already have immersion heaters.

Edited July 23, 2014 by fiveworlds

[iNow]

You are saying however that all I would need to do is angle the solar panels on the tower?

Why not? You can mount a flat screen tv and angle it anywhere in the room, and you can do the same thing with a solar panel. However, if you're looking to heat water, there are (as mentioned above) far more efficient ways than using a panel to generate electricity to power a heater (such as solar water heaters).

[Dekan]

Why all this stress on "heated water". Can't cold water be used for essential purposes such as drinking and washing?

[Endy0816]

Apparently there is a more viable location than the hull...

 

 

http://inhabitat.com/scientists-develop-solar-powered-wind-turbine/

 

Wouldn't be worth it everywhere but is neat to see.

 

 

[fiveworlds]

Why all this stress on "heated water". Can't cold water be used for essential purposes such as drinking and washing?

That depends on what you are washing. Also winter can kill depending on how cold the house gets and pipes burst which can mean no working toilet and/or running water.We went away for two weeks one winter and the whole tank http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballcock froze solid and had to be replaced. We had to get pickaxes into the attic to break the ice into small chunks and drag them downstairs before we could do anything. Also some bacteria can survive being washed in cold water. That endy is quite neat.

Edited July 25, 2014 by fiveworlds

[Dekan]

That depends on what you are washing. Also winter can kill depending on how cold the house gets and pipes burst which can mean no working toilet and/or running water.We went away for two weeks one winter and the whole tank http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballcock froze solid and had to be replaced. We had to get pickaxes into the attic to break the ice into small chunks and drag them downstairs before we could do anything. Also some bacteria can survive being washed in cold water. That endy is quite neat.

Wielding pickaxes in the attic, that's a vivid image, but couldn't you just have switched on an electric fire in the living room, then waited a bit.

 

Regarding the wind turbine images, they look like big semaphore-mills, which might impress a time-traveller.from the 18th Century.

[fiveworlds]

Wielding pickaxes in the attic, that's a vivid image, but couldn't you just have switched on an electric fire in the living room, then waited a bit.

 

Ah no because letting the ice melt would cause leaks. My carpet wouldn't like that.

 

Regarding the wind turbine images, they look like big semaphore-mills, which might impress a time-traveller.from the 18th Century.

 

I have yet to meet 18th Century time travellers

[Dekan]

They're in the Republican Party

[Phi for All]

That depends on what you are washing. Also winter can kill depending on how cold the house gets and pipes burst which can mean no working toilet and/or running water.We went away for two weeks one winter and the whole tank http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballcock froze solid and had to be replaced. We had to get pickaxes into the attic to break the ice into small chunks and drag them downstairs before we could do anything. Also some bacteria can survive being washed in cold water. That endy is quite neat.

 

If you're having energy problems with supply, perhaps you need to work more on the demand side. How much have you done to insure that your buildings are adequately sealed from the elements? Are you using energy efficient appliances and lighting where possible? Are your pharma companies using the latest in energy saving devices? It's amazing how much electricity is saved by putting controls on lights so they go off automatically when no one is around.

 

I once read where a lot of power generation would be unnecessary if the demand were handled more responsibly. Like it would be smarter to take the money you were going to spend on a hydroelectric dam or coal plant, and buy an energy-efficient refrigerator for everyone in the country.

[Endy0816]

I have yet to meet 18th Century time travelers

 

Really? They were just telling me about the successful dinner party you will host.

[factseeker88]

We have wind power generators here which are skyscrapers pretty much but I want to know if it is possible to convert the already exsisting towers hull into solar panelling to provide heated water to the surrounding villages which currently run on water heated by dwindling fossil fuels.

 

Of course, but with their dependency on intermitant wind and sunlight, what purpose would it serve?

[Briarep]

I was listening to someone on NPR yesterday and they were saying that Wind Power is much less efficient for small single home power generation than it is for large scale wind farms because of the friction involved in turning the turbine and getting it moving.

 

Another thing I didnt really think of when posting this was that solar can also be used to generate heat for home heating and hot water which I would think is more efficient than converting solar or wind energy to electricity then converting it to heat. Still has the limitation of only working when the sun is shining but may reduce the need for electricity and gain some efficiency.

[Externet]

To heat water from solar, placing the collectors near the need is way better than up on a tower that will need reinforcement to support extra weight, plus will decrease the losses in piping lenghts to surrounding villages. Every village or dwelling should implement their own system.

 

----> http://www.expertsolar.com/images/solar-pool-heating-coils-tucson-east.jpg

----> http://www.solarheatmypool.com/solar_pool_heating_images/solar_heating_coils_ground_mount.jpg

 

And cost is much less than solar-electric panels, using black plastic tubing.

To increase efficiency, a clear greenhouse-duty plastic film can be placed on top of the coils. Prevents the wind from cooling the coils.

 

----> http://www.scienceforums.net/topic/87892-tough-clear-plastic-film-recommendations-please/?hl=%2Bclear+%2Bfilm+%2Bplastic

[Harold Squared]

They're in the Republican Party

Off topic, but which "Republican Party"? The Spanish Civil War Republicans were Communists. In other news, Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead.

 

Returning to the topic, wind power can be turned into hot water directly by agitating said water, maybe some vertical axis arrangement with Savonius rotors would do it.

Edited June 16, 2015 by Harold Squared

[imatfaal]

Off topic, but which "Republican Party"? The Spanish Civil War Republicans were Communists. In other news, Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead.

 

Returning to the topic, wind power can be turned into hot water directly by agitating said water, maybe some vertical axis arrangement with Savonius rotors would do it.

 

Of course: the original experiment/observation by Joule. Would be interesting to see the calculations/models that would allow one to predict the heat gain (ie from wind speed, blade size, viscosity etc - not just energy lost by one system is balanced as heat in the the water) - I suspect they might be horrendous.

[Robittybob1]

 

Of course: the original experiment/observation by Joule. Would be interesting to see the calculations/models that would allow one to predict the heat gain (ie from wind speed, blade size, viscosity etc - not just energy lost by one system is balanced as heat in the the water) - I suspect they might be horrendous.

Can you explain that again please?

[imatfaal]

Can you explain that again please?

 

If you set up a weight to fall, the falling weight pulls a string, the string drives paddles in a container of fluid; a bit simplistically - apart from friction losses the energy that the falling weight doesn't gain (compared to it just falling freely) is used to heat up the fluid. If you search on Joule the person you will find accounts of his original experiments conducted in his fathers brewery.

 

Joule's Apparatus (Harper's Scan) [Public domain], by Harper's New Monthly Magazine, No. 231, August, 1869., from Wikimedia Commons

 

My query was regarding the model which one would use to find the heat imparted by a certain size paddle rotating through a certain viscosity liquid - ie approaching it from the other side from looking at the energy balance