Discussions on Political Conservatism as Motivated Social Cognition. (Split requested by Phi for All)

[Ten oz]

Conservatism insanity exhibit Alpha :

Once Republican got control of the senate they made James Inhofe (Republican Senator from Oklahoma) the Chairman of the Senate Enviroment Committee. What are his qualifications for such a prestigious chairmanship? Well, he is the foremost Climate Change denier in the Senate. In 2012 he authored the book " The Greatest Hoax: How Global Warming Conspiracy Threatens Your Future". In his book Inhofe presents such evidence as "God is still up there" and "it is arrogance to assume we can undue what he has done". Recently Inhofe made news for throwing a snowball on the Senate floor to disprove Climate Change.

 

Nominating a Climate Change denier as CHAIRMAN of the Senate ENVIROMENT Committie is like making Jordan Belfort (Wolf of Wall Street) the Chair of the Federal Reserve. It is insane. It also require a plurality of support within the party and not merely a fringe splattering. There is no Liberal equivalent to this sort of nonsensical execution of governance or rather outright disrespect of.

[Acme]

I see little point in giving example after example of the 'insanity' of political conservatives. The issue I introduced in the OP is why they behave the way they do and what can be done about it.

[waitforufo]

I see little point in giving example after example of the 'insanity' of political conservatives. The issue I introduced in the OP is why they behave the way they do and what can be done about it.

Why do they behave the way they do? Because they have jobs and money.

What can be done about it? Take away there jobs and money.

 

Is that the obvious answer you are looking for?

 

What other answer could a liberal possibly want?

[Acme]

Why do they behave the way they do? Because they have jobs and money.

What can be done about it? Take away there jobs and money.

 

Is that the obvious answer you are looking for?

 

What other answer could a liberal possibly want?

An answer based on psychological studies per the OP.

[overtone]

Why do they behave the way they do? Because they have jobs and money.

What can be done about it? Take away there jobs and money.

The country tried that, in 2007/2008. They got worse, not better - started running around in tricorn hats and carrying guns.

Edited March 19, 2015 by overtone

[Ten oz]

I believe Conservatism as a major political influence in on its last leg. Voting Demographics have been trending against conservatism for 30yrs. W. Bush squeezed in just in time without the popular vote and 9/11 allowed for climate where Bush was able to push a lot of things through (DHS, Patriot Act, two wars, Roberts and Alito, etc). Today the GOP has little chance of winning back the administrative branch. They only win one voting demographic and seemingly every major city/economic driver in the country (Seattle, New York, San Francisco, Chicago, LA, Boston, Philadelphia, etc, etc) votes Democrat. Once the Federalist Judges on the Supreme Court no longer have the majority I believe Conservativism will become a fringe portions of the GOP are be interiorly banished to a third party all together. 5 - 4 decisions like citizens united and all the various assaults on the voting rights act will be repaired. That will essentially be like pulling the life support plug on the GOP.

The problem is slowly fixing itself. These days are the death throes. Scalia and Thomas can only out live maybe 1 - 2 more administrations. The GOP has gone too far to turn the corner with Black and Latino voters. Society is becoming more educated, less religious, more diverse, and less afraid of other countries.

[overtone]

 

 

They only win one voting demographic and seemingly every major city/economic driver in the country (Seattle, New York, San Francisco, Chicago, LA, Boston, Philadelphia, etc, etc) votes Democrat. Once the Federalist Judges on the Supreme Court no longer have the majority I believe Conservativism will become a fringe portions of the GOP are be interiorly banished to a third party all together. 5 - 4 decisions like citizens united and all the various assaults on the voting rights act will be repaired. That will essentially be like pulling the life support plug on the GOP.

The Democratic Party has become increasingly "politically conservative" in the crazy sense, so voting Democrat is not in itself going to dig the country out.

 

The Supreme Court is unlikely to overturn its major Reagan Era decisions until Roberts retires. He's 60 years old (the manipulations leading to his appointment were masterful). We are more likely to see Medicare declared unConstitutional than Citizens United overturned, by a Roberts Court.

 

The takeover of the US by the group put into power by the "rightwing authoritarian military/industrial atavistic-myth-justified family-values loyalty-based" political faction we are not allowed to name any more, or even discuss in plain language, is not dependent on the GOP for its continued maintenance. Historically, the only way to break the established grip of a ruling class like that has been cataclysm - the destruction and collapse of their economic base, by some means. The real question then is whether that grip has been established.

[waitforufo]

The country tried that, in 2007/2008. They got worse, not better - started running around in tricorn hats and carrying guns.

You are right. Taking away there wealth and capacity to make wealth simply isn't enough. I know, we can re-educate them as well. So we don't waste to much money on the effort we should first concentrate them in camps and make them work to pay for there education. By concentrating them in camps we can also keep them away from their guns.

I believe Conservatism as a major political influence in on its last leg. Voting Demographics have been trending against conservatism for 30yrs. W. Bush squeezed in just in time without the popular vote and 9/11 allowed for climate where Bush was able to push a lot of things through (DHS, Patriot Act, two wars, Roberts and Alito, etc). Today the GOP has little chance of winning back the administrative branch. They only win one voting demographic and seemingly every major city/economic driver in the country (Seattle, New York, San Francisco, Chicago, LA, Boston, Philadelphia, etc, etc) votes Democrat. Once the Federalist Judges on the Supreme Court no longer have the majority I believe Conservativism will become a fringe portions of the GOP are be interiorly banished to a third party all together. 5 - 4 decisions like citizens united and all the various assaults on the voting rights act will be repaired. That will essentially be like pulling the life support plug on the GOP.

The problem is slowly fixing itself. These days are the death throes. Scalia and Thomas can only out live maybe 1 - 2 more administrations. The GOP has gone too far to turn the corner with Black and Latino voters. Society is becoming more educated, less religious, more diverse, and less afraid of other countries.

 

Last leg? Perhaps you missed the last election.

 

 

The sooner we round them up, take there wealth, and stick them in re-education concentration camps the better.

[Ten oz]

How populated is all that red vs the blue? The demographics are strongly against the GOP.

 

 

 

@ Overtone, Roberts will be on the bench a long time but Scalia and Thomas won't. Once federalist judges lose their 5-4 advantage lots will change.

[waitforufo]

How populated is all that red vs the blue? The demographics are strongly against the GOP.

 

 

 

@ Overtone, Roberts will be on the bench a long time but Scalia and Thomas won't. Once federalist judges lose their 5-4 advantage lots will change.

 

You don't understand how Senators get elected?

[Ten oz]

You don't understand how Senators get elected?

You are right I posted Administrative branch when I meant Executive Branch good catch. Thank you.

 

Today the GOP has little chance of winning back the administrative branch. They only win one voting demographic and seemingly every major city/economic driver in the country (Seattle, New York, San Francisco, Chicago, LA, Boston, Philadelphia, etc, etc) votes Democrat.

Edited March 19, 2015 by Ten oz

[overtone]

The country tried that, in 2007/2008. They got worse, not better - started running around in tricorn hats and carrying guns.

You are right. Taking away there wealth and capacity to make wealth simply isn't enough. I know, we can re-educate them as well. So we don't waste to much money on the effort we should first concentrate them in camps and make them work to pay for there education.

That's already been tried as well - student aid was cut to make them work for it, dozens of private for-profit colleges sprang up for them, and they cooperated by concentrating themselves in various school districts and certain colleges.

It didn't work. Those folks don't take to "education" much.

But maybe the problem was that all that taking away of jobs and money and forcing them into educational ghettoes they have to pay for themselves was done to them by themselves.

Maybe they'd learn something from it if somebody else did it to them, the kinds of lessons we learned by having them do it to us.

Probably too late to find out.

Edited March 20, 2015 by overtone

[waitforufo]

You are right I posted Administrative branch when I meant Executive Branch good catch. Thank you.

 

What you actually said was.....

I believe Conservatism as a major political influence in on its last leg.

We have three co-equal branches of government. If they don't work together nothing happens. Nothing happening is what those insane conservatives want. Look at that map again. Don't count the insane out yet.

 

That's already been tried as well - student aid was cut to make them work for it, dozens of private for-profit colleges sprang up for them, and they cooperated by concentrating themselves in various school districts and certain colleges.

It didn't work. Those folks don't take to "education" much.

But maybe the problem was that all that taking away of jobs and money and forcing them into educational ghettoes they have to pay for themselves was done to them by themselves.

Maybe they'd learn something from it if somebody else did it to them, the kinds of lessons we learned by having them do it to us.

Probably too late to find out.

I said camps not ghettos. To protect progressives against the insane you need a lock a key. That's the only way to stop the insane from anti-progressive-activities.

 

You are not looking at the big picture. The education is simply to help them understand the necessity of keeping them locked up. To explain the need of their work walking on the big electrical generating treadmill whenever the wind doesn't blow or the sun doesn't shine. A frequent forced watching of "An Inconvenient Truth" will help them appreciate the virtue of their labor.

 

Before you know it we will be living in a progressive paradise.

[Ten oz]

@ Waitforufo, while there are 3 branches of government the Conservatives need the Executive Branch the most. That is how they pack the courts, get military contract deals, and influence forgien affairs. The motto of anti government and the best government is the one that does the least isnt one that best lends itself to the senate.

Nationally the demographics are against the GOP. They are on their last leg. Winning mid term years alone won't cut it. They will have to evolve n many key issues to have a shot at winning major national elections. They have lost yhe popular vote 5 of the last 6 presidential elections and are polling for another lashing in 2016. They may hang on to Congress but that alone doesn't keep them whole.

[waitforufo]

@ Waitforufo, while there are 3 branches of government the Conservatives need the Executive Branch the most.

Not true. Those insane folks think that a government that does nothing does best. I with the Senate they can stop the appointment of any judge.

[Ten oz]

Not true. Those insane folks think that a government that does nothing does best. I with the Senate they can stop the appointment of any judge.

 

Government that does nothing does best is just a opposition slogan for when they are out of power. When they have power they do a lot. Reagan spent massive amounts of money and grow the government by record amounts as did Bush. conservatives also love to flex international muscle selling weapons to fuel rebellions or outright invading countries for precieved strategic gain.

Having a federalist packed court is critical to conservative policies. 5-4 decisions have decided many key political issues. Even put the last GOP president in office. The longer conservatives are out of the white house the more footing they loose. They aren't the one packing the courts, writting policy for the DOD, DOJ, IRS and influencing foriegn polices. Law and Order, Strong Miliatry, intimidating foriegn policy, and Taxes are the key issues GOP has focused of for the last 40yrs and without the Executive Branch they don't have control of long term influence over those things.

The inability to win national office will force a shift in the party. We already see some signs of it. Current frontrunners Jeb Bush and former nominee Mitt Romney both have discussed the for the party to better court minorities and change their immigration stance. While the Libertarian wing get huge applause everywhere they go by championing marijuana legalization. By 2024 after 16yrs out of the White House I believe we will see a Republican party that is almost identical today's Democrats. Remember Bush ran as a "compassionate" conservative. Bush was pro immigration and ran around the country championing low interest rates helping poor people own their first home. He gave trillions to senior citizens for prescription medicine without working out how to pay for it. If not for 9/11 making many conservative foriegn policy, military build up, and civil rights dismantling possible Bush would've been a rather boring moderate.

[waitforufo]

Government that does nothing does best is just a opposition slogan for when they are out of power. When they have power they do a lot. Reagan spent massive amounts of money and grow the government by record amounts as did Bush. conservatives also love to flex international muscle selling weapons to fuel rebellions or outright invading countries for precieved strategic gain.

Having a federalist packed court is critical to conservative policies. 5-4 decisions have decided many key political issues. Even put the last GOP president in office. The longer conservatives are out of the white house the more footing they loose. They aren't the one packing the courts, writting policy for the DOD, DOJ, IRS and influencing foriegn polices. Law and Order, Strong Miliatry, intimidating foriegn policy, and Taxes are the key issues GOP has focused of for the last 40yrs and without the Executive Branch they don't have control of long term influence over those things.

The inability to win national office will force a shift in the party. We already see some signs of it. Current frontrunners Jeb Bush and former nominee Mitt Romney both have discussed the for the party to better court minorities and change their immigration stance. While the Libertarian wing get huge applause everywhere they go by championing marijuana legalization. By 2024 after 16yrs out of the White House I believe we will see a Republican party that is almost identical today's Democrats. Remember Bush ran as a "compassionate" conservative. Bush was pro immigration and ran around the country championing low interest rates helping poor people own their first home. He gave trillions to senior citizens for prescription medicine without working out how to pay for it. If not for 9/11 making many conservative foriegn policy, military build up, and civil rights dismantling possible Bush would've been a rather boring moderate.

Yeah, I'm sure the conservatives felt something very similar when Bush was elected after Reagan. All nonsense. The pendulum swings.

 

The danger today however is that when it swings back those insane Conservatives will take control of Obama's pen and phone. Chaos! Yep, for the safety of the sane (aka progressives), we will just have to lock them down in re-education work camps. Besides those conservatives like work. It sets them free.

 

Oh Yeah, stay on topic. As Acme states in post 302 the topic is why do conservatives behave the way they do (insane) and what can be done about it.

Edited March 21, 2015 by waitforufo

[Ten oz]

Yeah, I'm sure the conservatives felt something very similar when Bush was elected after Reagan. All nonsense. The pendulum swings.

 

The danger today however is that when it swings back those insane Conservatives will take control of Obama's pen and phone. Chaos! Yep, for the safety of the sane (aka progressives), we will just have to lock them down in re-education work camps. Besides those conservatives like work. It sets them free.

 

The pendulum does swing but demographics haven't. The GOP only wins one group, white males. That group is a shrinking one. The trend is pulling away from them. It isnt swing back and forth. The GOP can still win Idaho, Utah, Kanas, Wyoming, etc because those states voters are still predominantly white male. Such is not the case in larger States necessary for winning National races.

[overtone]

I said camps not ghettos. To protect progressives against the insane you need a lock a key.

And I pointed out: they are building their own, installing the gates with the locks themselves, and moving in behind them of their own free will. To protect themselves.

 

 

 

Those insane folks think that a government that does nothing does best.

Once in a while for a few minutes that string of verbiage crosses their speech centers and come out of their yaps, sure. Then, after saying that, they start two land wars in Asia and launch the biggest expansion of Federal bureaucracy since WWII, and set their (and our, which is the problem) government up chasing weed smokers all over the country and listening in on everybody's phone calls.

 

 

You are not looking at the big picture.

The Big Picture issue here is whether political conservatism in the US has become somewhat insane.

 

The little picture, an illustration, is your posting. The answer is yes. (Do you really think you are joking? These baroque fantasies of oppression and being picked on are central to your world view.)

 

If those guys are actually worried about progressives and liberals adopting their means and tactics, and they seem to be, one sane response would be to quit adding to the means - "political conservatives" in the US have been expanding the prisons, setting up camps for illegals and refugees, building high security exclosure/inclosure fences on borders and around boundaries, eroding the firm establishment of habeus corpus, discarding the Constitutional provisions against surveillance and preventive detention and interrogation by torture, and in general working their little tushies as hard as they can to set up a Federal government capable of exactly what they now project unto "progressives".

 

Which points to the hazard the country faces by having allowed this spawn of evils past to get its hands on the US military and the tax system and such - these people are completely sincere in their paranoid ravings, and if they have the means for a pre-emptive strike against these surrounding threats, they will use them.

Edited March 21, 2015 by overtone

[waitforufo]

The pendulum does swing but demographics haven't. The GOP only wins one group, white males. That group is a shrinking one. The trend is pulling away from them. It isnt swing back and forth. The GOP can still win Idaho, Utah, Kanas, Wyoming, etc because those states voters are still predominantly white male. Such is not the case in larger States necessary for winning National races.

I think we can all acknowledge that the camps will be almost exclusively white and males. That should actually expedite the process.

 

And I pointed out: they are building their own, installing the gates with the locks themselves, and moving in behind them of their own free will. To protect themselves.

I think you need to go look at the map showed earlier. Those insane folks have a lot of room to roam. In fact looking at that map I would say the opposite of the above is true.

 

Once in a while for a few minutes that string of verbiage crosses their speech centers and come out of their yaps, sure. Then, after saying that, they start two land wars in Asia and launch the biggest expansion of Federal bureaucracy since WWII, and set their (and our, which is the problem) government up chasing weed smokers all over the country and listening in on everybody's phone calls.

Sure they have their own agenda, but stopping the sane is right their at the top of their list. By having work camps we can change their exercise from chasing weed smokers to generating electricity. Listening to phone calls? Who is doing that at the moment?

 

The Big Picture issue here is whether political conservatism in the US has become somewhat insane.

Somewhat insane. Isn't that like being a little pregnant? Which brings to mind other possible solutions. Political eugenics. Brilliant.

The little picture, an illustration, is your posting. The answer is yes. (Do you really think you are joking? These baroque fantasies of oppression and being picked on are central to your world view.

Acme requested solutions in post 302, after 301 posts of whining examples of conservative insanity. I don't think the whining is working. At least I'm providing solutions to the insanity. You are just moping.

If those guys are actually worried about progressives and liberals adopting their means and tactics, and they seem to be, one sane response would be to quit adding to the means - "political conservatives" in the US have been expanding the prisons, setting up camps for illegals and refugees, building high security exclosure/inclosure fences on borders and around boundaries, eroding the firm establishment of habeus corpus, discarding the Constitutional provisions against surveillance and preventive detention and interrogation by torture, and in general working their little tushies as hard as they can to set up a Federal government capable of exactly what they now project unto "progressives".

 

Which points to the hazard the country faces by having allowed this spawn of evils past to get its hands on the US military and the tax system and such - these people are completely sincere in their paranoid ravings, and if they have the means for a pre-emptive strike against these surrounding threats, they will use them.

Now who's world view is on display. I like the "spawn of evils" comment the best. Now not insane, but evil. But who was more insane/evil than Ronald Reagan? I seem to recall old Ronnie having quite the affinity for the US Military. Funny how we are still free.

 

The above whining won't fix a thing. I read "quit adding to the means" as doing less then nothing toward a solution. Come on, you can do better than that.

 

 

edit-----

Hey, Didn't Ronnie get in trouble for calling people evil? In fact I think it was an entire country. Overtone and Ronnie. Birds of a feather.

Edited March 22, 2015 by waitforufo

[Acme]

... Acme requested solutions in post 302, after 301 posts of whining examples of conservative insanity. I don't think the whining is working. At least I'm providing solutions to the insanity. You are just moping. ...

For one thing, piggybacking obviously ridiculous ideas onto my words is of no merit, and for a second thing it has been made clear here that what I intended is of no merit whatsoever anyway. Then there is the absence of merit in my stupid idea that scholarly investigation and critical thinking belong on a science forum. I am positively gleeful at the turn of things and how so many folks such as yourself have shown me the error of my ways.

[overtone]

Now who's world view is on display. I like the "spawn of evils" comment the best. Now not insane, but evil.

One of the problems with crazy people is that they cannot read with comprehension.

 

Or will not. Which amounts to the same thing, on a science forum (in Ted Cruz's case, the implications are different).

 

Pointing out that political conservatism in the US is an "ideology" (of a sort) born of a great many evils, beginning (one must begin somewhere) with slavery and Jim Crow, and political conservatives are therefore adherents to a political ideology that is the spawn of these evils, is not the same thing as calling anyone evil.

 

Good people as well as bad can sell their soul - the good ones are rumored to fetch a higher price, even - and that doesn't make them evil. It does damn them, of course.

Edited March 22, 2015 by overtone

[waitforufo]

...beginning (one must begin somewhere) with slavery and Jim Crow

Better check your history books about the origins of slavery and Jim Crow. Both are firmly enshrined in the Democratic party.

For one thing, piggybacking obviously ridiculous ideas onto my words is of no merit, and for a second thing it has been made clear here that what I intended is of no merit whatsoever anyway. Then there is the absence of merit in my stupid idea that scholarly investigation and critical thinking belong on a science forum. I am positively gleeful at the turn of things and how so many folks such as yourself have shown me the error of my ways.

you're welcome

[overtone]

Better check your history books about the origins of slavery and Jim Crow. Both are firmly enshrined in the Democratic party.

As was Ronald Reagan's political career. Also Strom Thurmond's, and Phil Gramm's, and so many others.

 

As Reagan put it: the Democratic Party left him, and he found a new home. Likewise the KKK faction, which became the John Birch Society faction and now the Tea Party faction - Nixon invited them into the GOP tent, they accepted the invitation, and there they dwell. That happened in the mid 1960s, when the Democratic Party took on the Jim Crow laws and other racial oppressions supported by white people's racial bigotry in the US.

 

It's temporary, perhaps - that faction destroys its environs, and has to move on every so often - but not at all quiet or hidden.

 

And thus modern "political conservatism", as it styles itself, was born - crazy from the very beginning, guilt-based from the git-go.

Edited March 24, 2015 by overtone

[waitforufo]

As was Ronald Reagan's political career. Also Strom Thurmond's, and Phil Gramm's, and so many others.

 

As Reagan put it: the Democratic Party left him, and he found a new home. Likewise the KKK faction, which became the John Birch Society faction and now the Tea Party faction - Nixon invited them into the GOP tent, they accepted the invitation, and there they dwell. That happened in the mid 1960s, when the Democratic Party took on the Jim Crow laws and other racial oppressions supported by white people's racial bigotry in the US.

 

It's temporary, perhaps - that faction destroys its environs, and has to move on every so often - but not at all quiet or hidden.

 

What still no solutions? Still whining? Try being a little more creative.

 

But since you bring it up I can't help myself. So you really think Richard Nixon was the savior of the Democratic party? All by him self did it really erase all that Democratic party history? From slavery, sedition, succession, the revolutionary war, Jim crow, lynching, segregation, etc.? Did Nixon wipe from the history books that the KKK was the terrorist arm of the National Democratic Party? All that wiped away by Richard Nixon? Even the taint? No kidding? From the slave owning of the party founder Thomas Jefferson, to slavery promoter John C. Calhoun, to KKK member Robert Byrd, and segregationist George Wallace all suddenly irrelevant? Wow, you must think of old Dick Nixon as the pied piper of the Democratic party.

 

Isn't this topic about Conservatives being mildly insane?

Edited March 24, 2015 by waitforufo