JFK Assassination - Current Info

[Airbrush]

Recently there aired on History Channel a few new documentaries, including “Lee H. Oswald – 48 Hours to Live”. It was very interesting to hear the few things Oswald said, and see a re-enactment of what he did after shooting JFK. Little is known of him except his living in Russia and his contacting the Soviet, and Cuban, embassies in Mexico City shortly before the assassination. Did he tell them what he was planning? Did they encourage him and promise to help him escape? If Oswald was not killed by Jack Ruby, would it have come out that Russia and/or Cuba was behind the assassination?

 

History is often a record of delusional actions by actors. Hitler’s strategic blunders are some good examples. Oswald, when questioned about killing the president in the police car after he was picked up in the theater, said something like, “What’s the big deal about the president getting killed? There will be a new one in a few days.” Oswald consistently denied anything, including shooting Officer Tibbet. Another delusional action, Jack Ruby believed he would be congratulated for shooting Oswald, and let go!

 

Here is my question. Does anyone know WHEN did Oswald get his job at the school book depository? Was he looking for a job along the published presidential route? Did Russian KGB help Oswald find a job along the parade route? Or was it by chance that he was working there.

 

Does anyone now still believe the assassination was a conspiracy?

[swansont]

According to multiple sources: He was hired on October 15 after hearing about the job by sheer chance via his wife. He could have been assigned to another warehouse, and the route had not been planned at the time he was hired.

 

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/leejob2.txt

http://westwingreports.com/jfk-elm-street/oct-15-oswald-is-hired-by-the-texas-school-book-depository

 

[Airbrush]

Thanks for that info, Swansont. That is exactly what I wanted to know!

 

There were probably a number of people like Oswald, living in Dallas, that would have been glad for the opportunity to take a shot at Kennedy. Among them, Oswald was the lucky guy. There were probably a number of people like Jack Ruby, living in the area, that would have been glad for the opportunity to take a shot at Oswald. Again, another delusional individual, was the lucky guy.

 

"...When Oswald was hired, it was known that President Kennedy would be visiting Texas sometime in November, but no trip itinerary had been planned. The announcement that Kennedy's motorcade would even pass through Dealey Plaza on November 22 wasn't made public until November 21 - five weeks after Oswald was hired to work at the Depository. - See more at: http://westwingreports.com/jfk-elm-street/oct-15-oswald-is-hired-by-the-texas-school-book-depository#sthash.emUEKOvu.dpuf..."

 

It looks like a mistake above on the date the path of the Kennedy motorcade was announced. If it was announced to the public on 11-21-63 and JFK was shot the next day, how could Oswald have time to prepare? He must have known the route earlier than the day before he took his shots.

Edited August 4, 2014 by Airbrush

[swansont]

I thought I also read that Oswald's job was as a temp, and so it was not a done deal that he would work through the latter part of November.

 

 

 

It looks like a mistake above on the date the path of the Kennedy motorcade was announced. If it was announced to the public on 11-21-63 and JFK was shot the next day, how could Oswald have time to prepare? He must have known the route earlier than the day before he took his shots.

 

Not to fan the conspiracy flames, but that wouldn't be a problem if Oswald wasn't the shooter.

 

But it was announced on the 19th, according to the Warren Commission

http://www.archives.gov/research/jfk/warren-commission-report/chapter-2.html

[Airbrush]

".....On November 19, the Times-Herald afternoon paper detailed the precise route: From the airport, the President's party will proceed to Mockingbird Lane to Lemmon and then to Turtle Creek, turning south to Cedar Springs. The motorcade will then pass through downtown on Harwood and then west on Main, turning back to Elm at Houston and then out Stemmons Freeway to the Trade Mart...."

 

So Oswald had a little over 2 days notice, at the most, to come up with a plan, and to carry it out. He may have had less time to prepare if he read the article late on 11-19-63 or the next day. Interesting the documentaries missed this fact. This is astonishing. Until Oswald read the precise route in the Dallas Times-Herald, or heard on the radio, or likely heard from a co-worker at the TSBD, he probably never considered he might have an opportunity to assassinate JFK. He put his plan together with VERY short notice, shockingly short notice.

 

When Oswald met with officials at the USSR and Cuban embassies in Mexico City, he may have revealed his intentions to assassinate JFK. But maybe not, since he never dreamed that he would have an opportunity until the route was announced on 11-19-1963.

 

The JFK assassination is a story as strange as fiction. It almost appears that "the powers that be" wanted JFK to get assassinated, and have Oswald shot 48 hours later. It is too complex a series of unlikely coincidences, and yet it is.

Edited August 5, 2014 by Airbrush

[Airbrush]

Did anyone see the documentary "JFK - The Smoking Gun"? It is on Netflix, where I just saw it a couple times.

 

It says there was a conspiracy concerning the secret service, after the assassination of JFK, to cover up the fact that the 3rd shot, that hit Kennedy in the head, came from not Oswald, but from secret service agent George Hickey, accidentally.

 

BTW, his investigation also concluded that the second shot, through Kennedy's neck, would have been a fatal wound.

 

According to a 4-year investigation by an Australian detective, Colin Mclaren, and the book “Mortal Error” by Howard Donohue, there seems to be a secret service cover-up concerning the 3^rd shot which hit JFK in the head. After Oswald fired his first shot from the 6^th floor of the Texas School Book Depository, secret service agent George Hickey picked up a “cocked and loaded” AR-15, set on safety, and looked around for the source of the then 2 shots, waving his assault rifle, but tragically, accidentally fired the shot that killed JFK.

 

There was no conspiracy other than the conspiracy among the secret service agents and the Warren Commission to cover-up George Hickey’s “Mortal Error”.

 

552 witnesses gave testimony, the Warren Commission selected a limited number of these, the witnesses that supported the story they wanted for history.

 

The 3 shots occurred within 5.6 seconds. Eleven marksmen later attempted 3 shots, using the same cheep, inaccurate, Italian army surplus rifle, on the same size target, at the same distances, moving at the same speed, in an exact re-enactment of the scene in Daley Plaza. Only one marksman was able to hit the target 3 times, and that was only after he attempted it a third time. This shows how hard it would have been for Oswald to hit the president even twice in 3 shots.

 

Governer Connelly was certain that he was hit by the second shot and the Warren Commission ignored that. The single bullet theory was correct for the second shot, but it is likely the first shot missed as several witnesses saw the bullet hit the pavement. That shot would have sent fragments of bullet and pavement flying towards the presidential limo, which prompted Kennedy to say “Someone is shooting at us!” After that he was hit in the back of his neck. He lowered his head and was aligned with George Hickey, in the following car, and his AR-15 that accidentally went off as the 3^rd shot.

 

The second shot was a full metal jacket, the third shot was an exploding, frangible, hollow-point bullet, which actually left 30 to 40 fragments in Kennedy’s head. Also the head entry wound was 6mm and a metal jacket round is larger, 6.5mm.

 

Ten witnesses, at street level, smelled gun powder, including some expert witnesses. The wind was blowing 15 mph from the southwest. Shots from Oswald’s gun could not be smelled at street level.

 

Several witnesses said they saw a secret service agent pull out a rifle, waving it around. One witness, Jamie Hill, testified she saw “…secret service agents firing back…” but she was never called to testify.

 

The secret service refused to have an autopsy, according to Texas law, before the body could be moved, for no apparent reason.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortal_Error

[swansont]

Let me get this straight: a conspiracy involving an un-aimed rifle hitting the president is accepted, while Oswald as the lone shooter is dismissed because it was "hard", i.e. unlikely.

[Airbrush]

Not just a hard shot, but the third shot was from a low angle, AND a different kind of ammo, an exploding round, and of a smaller size.

 

Ten witnesses reported the smell of gun powder at street level.

 

Several irregularies and inconsistencies in the Secret Service actions and testimony.

 

"...Other evidence of a cover-up put forward by McLaren states how an evasive Secret Service chief James Rowley admitted, at the Warren Commission, that AR-15s were no longer used by his organisation inside protection vehicles since the assassination, and also that classified Secret Service documents on the assassination were destroyed just one week prior to being handed over to the Assassination Records Review Board in 1995. McLaren suggests the chaos of the aftermath of the assassination, including threatening and interfering behaviour by Secret Service agents towards Parkland Memorial Hospital staff, involving the removal of Kennedy's body without an autopsy having taken place, was "...evidence they knew one of their agents had shot JFK" and pointed to a cover-up. He further suggests that Kennedy's eventual autopsy with its "...overcrowding in the room, the Secret Service's constant interference, the pressure cooker autopsy, lost photographs, falsified x-rays...all point to conspiracy". Several scenes are dramatically reconstructed, including the removal of the body from the Dallas hospital...."

 

Try reading the wikipedia article on the book "Mortal Error" for further details.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mortal_Error

Edited December 24, 2014 by Airbrush

[imatfaal]

I am not happy with this topic being anywhere other than Speculations. It is rank conspiracy theory at its absolute nadir. I started to read some of the links but had to stop as my angry shouts at the computer screen were beginning to be disturbing - the misuse of the word evidence, especially in a quasi-legal context, is criminal, the leaps of faith required are stupendous, and the upshot is not that world-shattering anyway. Even if it were true, and it isn't, I am not sure that the Secret Service may have covered up some stuff is that news-worthy; Oswald is, was, and will remain the shooter.

[StringJunky]

Thinking about this as a conspiracy effort dedicated to covering up someone's professional mistake seems very implausible. It would have required the co-operation of too many people to pull off and for what? To cover up the embarrassment that Kennedy was killed by accident by one his own entourage? I see no gain or sense in all those professional people colluding to cover up a simple accident. I get a similar feeling from this as with the "fake" Apollo missions: Bleuch!

[Airbrush]

According to accepted evidence, the third shot could not have originated from Oswald's rifle because it was a different kind of ammo, a frangible round while the second shot was a full metal jacket round. Also Oswald was shooting down from an angle of 16 degrees, while the entrance and exit wounds of the third round, pointed to street level and to JFK's left, towards the following secret service car.

 

The secret service controlled EVERYTHING related to the assassination, with a vengence, issuing gag orders to everyone in the autopsy room. All photos, and blank film, was confiscated after the autopsy and were "lost". Many years later evidence was destroyed immediately after it was requested. Agent Hickey never spoke publically about this, and evaded talking with the book's author.

 

I never heard it mentioned, but I wonder if the Secret Service were the ones that immediately wiped down the car of blood and brain splatter, outside Parkland Hospital, to make the car clean and neat and erase forensic evidence?

 

I would like to see some SPECIFIC criticism of these evidence.

 

"....Even if it were true, and it isn't, I am not sure that the Secret Service may have covered up some stuff is that news-worthy; Oswald is, was, and will remain the shooter."

 

So for the Secret Service to cover-up something of this magnitude is not news-worthy? The book "Mortal Error" fell on deaf ears because it was not favored by the conspiracy people, nor was it favored by the Warren Commission proponents. People just don't care that much about this any longer.

 

Oswald was, is, and will remain, the shooter, of shots number one and two. But to suggest he also fired shot number three is "junk science".

Edited December 24, 2014 by Airbrush

[Ten oz]

I have never given the JFK conspiracy serious thought. Though the older I get the more all conspiracies seem possible. A modern example would be the way conservative media can blatantly lie and distort the truth without any blow back. The depth of the people involved is amazing. Whether it is finding scientist to write BS research papers or getting billionaires to fund birth certificate scandals the right has an infrastructure able to place huge amounts of energy behind anything they choose. Surely they aren't the first incarnation of that. There must have been others and must be others still.

[Willie71]

I've always assumed the official story on JFK was bogus, just like the reasons for the Vietnam war, the weapons of mass destruction Bush claimed, the Grand Jury process on police shootings etc. most of the official explanations are so absurd, only a faithful patriot could choose to believe them. I have no idea who shot JFK, it might have been Oswald, maybe not. I have as much faith in the story as Wilson's testimony, and the "lack of bias" in the prosecutor'so interrogation. It's just a sick joke, all of it.

[Airbrush]

I've been following the JFK assassination since I was in grammar school, when the only thing on tv for the following week, when we had only 7 tv stations, was the Kennedy assassination.

 

Here is my own recent investigation. I was wondering if the person(s) who wiped down the presidential limo, outside Parkland Hospital, immediately after JFK and Connelly were carried by stretcher into ER, were Secret Service agents. That would support the theory that George Hickey accidentally shot JFK. Here is what I found from the Warren Commission.

 

According to a statement by Parkland Hosp Aide, Shirley Randal: "...I asked some man - I don't know who he was - if there was any more hurt...he said he didn't think so. He asked me if I would get someone to come and wash the blood out of the car..."

 

Joe Richards, Orderly: "...then someone asked me to get a bucket of water; I did. Secret Service Men asked me where the telephones were..."

 

Here it seems safe to assume that the person asking for a bucket of water was a Secret Service man.

 

From the book "Legacy of Secrecy" by Lamar Waldron: "...As Hugh Sidney observed, Secret Service agents cleaned and wiped down JFK's limo..."

Edited December 26, 2014 by Airbrush

[swansont]

The trouble with conspiracy theories (well, one problem) is that there's lots of stuff that "supports" a theory. It's a pretty low hurdle. It also supports a theory that The Amazing Mysterio hypnotized a bunch of people to cover up his involvement with the crime, to throw suspicion elsewhere.

[MigL]

I don't think you mean that the 'right' is involved in the cover up, do you Ten oz ?

[Ten oz]

I don't think you mean that the 'right' is involved in the cover up, do you Ten oz ?

The cover up of JFK......of course not. I was referencing climate denial and billionIre suppurt of fake movements as examples of wealthy powerful people conspiring to minipulate the public. I was not imply the political right as it exists today had anything to do with JFK's death. I was explaining that I believe conspiracy is possible. I don't really have the information to make any claims about the JFK assassination.

[MigL]

Darn.

I thought we could have another dust-up.

[swansont]

The cover up of JFK......of course not. I was referencing climate denial and billionIre suppurt of fake movements as examples of wealthy powerful people conspiring to minipulate the public. I was not imply the political right as it exists today had anything to do with JFK's death. I was explaining that I believe conspiracy is possible. I don't really have the information to make any claims about the JFK assassination.

 

But we know about this attempt to manipulate the public. You need an example of a conspiracy that was kept private for a long time, involving a large number of people.

[Ten oz]

 

But we know about this attempt to manipulate the public. You need an example of a conspiracy that was kept private for a long time, involving a large number of people.

Golf of Tonkin and weapons of mass destruction in Iraq quickly come to mind.

[swansont]

Golf of Tonkin and weapons of mass destruction in Iraq quickly come to mind.

 

How are WMDs in Iraq a successful conspiracy? The old ones that were were found we knew about, and the ones that were used as an excuse, nobody actually thought existed. We knew we were being BS-ed not long afterwards. Not exactly a successful conspiracy.

 

Gulf of Tonkin shows that the government keeps records of everything. Where are they for the assassination?

[Ten oz]

 

How are WMDs in Iraq a successful conspiracy? The old ones that were were found we knew about, and the ones that were used as an excuse, nobody actually thought existed. We knew we were being BS-ed not long afterwards. Not exactly a successful conspiracy.

 

Gulf of Tonkin shows that the government keeps records of everything. Where are they for the assassination?

Firstly, I do not believe in any JFK conspiracy. My initial comment was simply that I believe conspiracy is possible in general. Not that I know of any that had been. If you were to say I had ZERO proof that there was a conspiracy surround JFK's death I would not be able to refute that. I do not have any evidence nor do I claim that there was a conspiracy surrounding JFK.

 

As for WMD's and the Golf of Tonkin both are known today but for their time they served their purpose. Both got us into wars for false reasons known to be false at the time. As for examples successful conspiracies that we don't know about; we don't know what we don't know. Perhaps there have been some perhaps there has not. I am not advocating any specific conspiracy.

[swansont]

Firstly, I do not believe in any JFK conspiracy. My initial comment was simply that I believe conspiracy is possible in general. Not that I know of any that had been. If you were to say I had ZERO proof that there was a conspiracy surround JFK's death I would not be able to refute that. I do not have any evidence nor do I claim that there was a conspiracy surrounding JFK.

 

As for WMD's and the Golf of Tonkin both are known today but for their time they served their purpose. Both got us into wars for false reasons known to be false at the time. As for examples successful conspiracies that we don't know about; we don't know what we don't know. Perhaps there have been some perhaps there has not. I am not advocating any specific conspiracy.

 

I wasn't asking you, specifically, for evidence. Just a rhetorical device — this would be a wide-spread conspiracy that has been kept for decades. Nobody has leaked any hard evidence. They've just pointed to coincidences and random events as if they are causally related, and taken the standard "you can't disprove this" attitude.

[Ten oz]

 

I wasn't asking you, specifically, for evidence. Just a rhetorical device — this would be a wide-spread conspiracy that has been kept for decades. Nobody has leaked any hard evidence. They've just pointed to coincidences and random events as if they are causally related, and taken the standard "you can't disprove this" attitude.

I am with you. I see a successful conspiracy in the JFK case as a very low probability. I wish was educated enough o the topic to play devil's advocate a little but I am not.

I actually think the Robert Kennedy's assassination is more interesting because is at least Sirhan Sirhan is still alive to be interviewed.

[MigL]

Oh, you don't need much knowledge of a subject to play Devil's advocate, you just need to get the ball rolling until others take over.

 

Lets assume there was a cover-up to hide the 'real' assassin.

The first criteria would be who stands to gain from the assassination, and that the truth NOT be known ?

 

This rules out the Mob, as they like to 'send a message'.

One could make the same argument against Cuba/Russia and other foreign interests.

 

That leaves domestic players such as the CIA/secret service, disgruntled citizens, husbands of all the women he slept with...