Does Extra-cocurricular Activities Play Important Role in Science University Enrollment

[Nicholas Kang]

I am currently 15 years old, still at a high school. I am looking forward to study in only 2 countries-UK and USA. I have been interested in studying in Princeton University, Caltech, University of California, Oxford and Cambridge University. My academics aren`t bad, but my extra-curricular activities aren`t very good. I will be elected as the vice-president of my Science Club by next year. I am also participating SETI@home too. What else can I improve?

[ajb]

You are aiming very high here, but of course I don't know your standard of education or the type of school you are at. Your academic record needs to be outstanding.

 

Now to your question. Generally, I would say that extra-curricular activities don't matter much, but this maybe different when applying to high ranking universities that need to do whatever they can to differentiate students. One suggestion, if you are interested is to join the local astronomy society.

Edited August 6, 2014 by ajb

[lycerius]

Order of importance:

1. Grades
2. Competition awards
3. Some kind of experience in research
4. Extra curricular activities

[Nicholas Kang]

Achievement recorded

Kuiz kemerdekaan- National Independence Quiz

Pertandingan Mengarang Bahasa Malaysia Tingkatan 2- Malay Language Essay Writing Competition Form 2-14 years old

First Aid Competition by Red Crescent Society Unit 42 Malaysia

Persatuan Bahasa Inggeris-English Language Society

 

It is clear that I don`t do very well in cocurriculum and several projects aren`t take into marks consideration/computation because they doesn`t receive approvement from the Malaysia Ministry of Education, for example, SETI@home.

 

I tried to paste screenshots of my results as pictures pasted directly in this reply section but fail, so I uploaded them.

The achivement section does not include the current year this year/2014 achievement. Untill now, I received 2 champion-one for Malay Language Essay Writing Competition and the other one for English Language Essay Writing Competition, both are school level.

 

Edit: I have removed my results.

Edited August 13, 2014 by Nicholas Kang

[ajb]

I am not sure you really want to post personal information like that here.

 

Anyway, I don't know the standard of Malaysia education and how it is seen internationally. You would need something equivalent to A* A* A or maybe A* A A at A-level. Then these universities may ask you to do more.

 

For example if you wanted to study mathematics at Cambridge then you will have to passed Sixth Term Examination Papers (STEP) as part of the terms of their conditional offer. If you get a conditional offer that is. Some other UK universities are saying they like students to have passd STEP.

 

I don't want to put you off, maybe you could get in to these places as an undergraduate. Again, I don't know what kind of school you are at, the standard of your education or your social standing.

 

My advice is to also have some back-up plan here.

[Nicholas Kang]

What/how can I provide you?

What do you mean by social standing? Maybe you can Google my school (name) a malay version name would be much better-SMJK Chung Ling Butterworth

Do you want me to email my results to you?

[ajb]

What do you mean by social standing?

Well, we know that you will have a far better change of getting accepted in Oxford or Cambridge if you went to a private school instead of a state funded school. I am not sure what the situation is for the big names in the US, it maybe different, but I expect not. I hope someone from the US can say a little more here.

 

 

Do you want me to email my results to you?

I would not know how to interpret them in this context. You need to find out the international standing of your school system. There should be some information on this at the universities' websites, look under international students.

[Nicholas Kang]

I would not know how to interpret them in this context. You need to find out the international standing of your school system. There should be some information on this at the universities' websites, look under international students.

 

Maybe you can provide me some websites like Cambridge or Oxford`s one. Then I can check my own school.

[ajb]

Maybe you can provide me some websites like Cambridge or Oxford`s one. Then I can check my own school.

http://www.ox.ac.uk/admissions/undergraduate/international-students

 

for example outlines what Oxford would expect of you.

 

http://www.study.cam.ac.uk/undergraduate/international/

 

the same for Cambridge.

 

All UK universites will have a similar webpage.

Edited August 13, 2014 by ajb

[Nicholas Kang]

I have found the page, but their requirements seemed to be very high, especially English requirement which is CPE level of CEFR, I am only taking FCE exam this year(in 1 week time).

 

http://www.study.cam.ac.uk/undergraduate/international/qualifications/malaysia.html

I have also found the requirements in Oxford page, but it looks simple and no strict rules and regulations, just STPM with AAA, that`s all.

Also Oxford provides 2 options for both CAE(at least A) and CPE(at least B), which is much looser than Cambridge.

[Bignose]

I am also participating SETI@home too.

This needs to be expanded upon, too. Are you actually contributing code to the project, or are you just running the software on your computer when the CPU load isn't very high? Because anyone can download software and run it on their computer, and I'm sorry, but that doesn't mean very much. It is another thing entirely to contribute programming to a project.

 

In the big picture here, I think it should also be said that while the 'big name' universities do carry some importance, it certainly is not the only way to be successful. There is little shame in attending and excelling at a local public university for 4 years and then attempting to apply to these schools for graduate work. For that matter, doing all your schooling at a local school can lead to success as well. Like a lot of things in life, what you get out of schooling is largely a function of what you put in. If you go to the school, take challenging classes, volunteer to help on research projects, do a little networking, at most any higher education institution doors will be opened for you. In the real world, the name of the institution you have received your degree(s) from don't really mean a whole lot, it is your skills, abilities, drive and personality that really matter.

Edited August 14, 2014 by Bignose

[Nicholas Kang]

Do you mean I must go for programming? Isn`t it participating in analyzing data from Arecibo is enough?

Edited August 15, 2014 by Nicholas Kang

[Bignose]

Do you mean I must go for programming? Isn`t it participating in analyzing data from Arecibo is enough?

How active is your data analyzing? Are you actually doing anything or is their program just using your excess CPU cycles?

 

I am not super familiar with SETI@Home, but my understanding was that it was using your unused CPU cycles and uploading its analysis to a main server. The user themselves don't need to do anything. If that perception is accurate, then I am saying that a typical user's contributions don't add up to much that would impress most people.

 

On the other hand, if you an active code contributor to the project, that shows a much higher level of involvement.

[Nicholas Kang]

What? How to be an active code contributor? I am just running SetI@home this july. I have no idea of contributing codes. I am just following the norm. What normal people do is just install BOINC on computers. Then, download the files to be analyze. Some take hundred of hours, some take only 14-16 hours(my SETI@home) and for Astropulse it is just 6 hours estimated but actualy I take 3 hours to complete it. Then, after the period, the PC automatically upload the files and the researcher will then award the points. The cycle continues.

 

Is this what you mean/consider as using unused CPU cycle? Then this woud mean I am just the norm, not standing out of the crowd? And what about code programming? Why SETI need code programming? Isn`t SETI just help universities launch SETI project?

[Bignose]

NK, all I am saying is that while it is not typical for people to download and analyze files, you yourself are not actually doing the analysis. You are just contributing your computing time to the project. A contribution that has some value, but it is not anywhere nearly as valuable as being the one who designed what analysis to actually do, or the one who programmed the software to do that analysis.

 

In short, all I am saying is that unless you can demonstrate that you are doing something more than just downloading files and uploading automated analyses to a server... if I were reviewing your application, I would not put very much weight on this activity.

 

I am not trying to put you down or belittle what you've done. You asked for opinions about what you presented. My opinion is that just running files for SETI@HOME is not terribly meaningful unless you helped write or design the code. Someone else may have a different opinion.

[Nicholas Kang]

So, what about activities other than the normal one(download and upload and analysis). Maybe you can give me some advice? You can either revolve around the topic SETI@home or other science projects. So for programming, what is the code and what are they?

And one more question, usually, in Malaysia parents would simply send their students to learn piano lesson. May I know in USA does the Grade 8 certificate is really that important when applying for scholarships?

[Bignose]

So, what about activities other than the normal one(download and upload and analysis). Maybe you can give me some advice? You can either revolve around the topic SETI@home or other science projects. So for programming, what is the code and what are they?

 

And one more question, usually, in Malaysia parents would simply send their students to learn piano lesson. May I know in USA does the Grade 8 certificate is really that important when applying for scholarships?

Nicholas, I think it would be a good learning experience for you to research SETI@HOME yourself and figure out how you can contribute to the project, if you so desire. I found some links with about 2 minutes of using Google and clicking on links on their site.

 

If you are completely stuck, I'll post some links after several days, but you should be able to find these on your own.

 

Also, it doesn't have to be SETI@HOME. There are a wide variety of open source projects that would gladly accept some help.

 

It also doesn't have to be programming. There are also a wide variety of other projects where you volunteering your time would be gladly accepted as well.

 

You can't expect us to find these for you, or know what you'd be interested in. You need to demonstrate some initiative (this helps your application too, by the way!) and find them on your own.

[John Cuthber]

It was 30 years or so ago that I got into Oxford to study chemistry.

 

I didn't have much extra curricular activity to show- I was captain of a quiz team and I went rock climbing, but that was about it.

However, at least at that time, the University didn't care very much.

They did, however take account of the fact that, even though I was at a rather poorly regarded state-funded school, I took A level chemistry, and O level maths 2 years early and I also did the A level in physics a year early.

 

Also I did go for an interview there and that gave them a chance to find out what sort of person I was as, well as things like how well I could think when they asked questions to which I didn't know the answers.

 

Oxford was , and I think still is, is a very academically focussed institution, I understand that Cambridge, Princeton, and Caltech are similar.

[CharonY]

The thing is that ivy leagues typically have more excellent students than they can accept. Extra-curricular activities are just the cherry on top to distinguish yourself from all the other equally excellent students. If you are not competitive in that regard, there is little that extras could do.

[Nicholas Kang]

Nicholas, I think it would be a good learning experience for you to research SETI@HOME yourself and figure out how you can contribute to the project, if you so desire. I found some links with about 2 minutes of using Google and clicking on links on their site.

 

If you are completely stuck, I'll post some links after several days, but you should be able to find these on your own.

 

Also, it doesn't have to be SETI@HOME. There are a wide variety of open source projects that would gladly accept some help.

 

It also doesn't have to be programming. There are also a wide variety of other projects where you volunteering your time would be gladly accepted as well.

 

You can't expect us to find these for you, or know what you'd be interested in. You need to demonstrate some initiative (this helps your application too, by the way!) and find them on your own.

 

I don`t expect you to not help in finding these projects for me. Never mind. But what key words should I google? Science projects? I will demonstrate my initiatives, of course if you tell me the key words. You mean other open source projects in BOINC, like Rosetta at home, Einstein at home, etc.? Mr. Bignose, I do need your help, I am a newcomer to the ever-evolving science projects world. You know, I am not participating in these projects for getting marks or as a passport to enter top universities. I really have the interest and the passion to serve the scientific community, and to learn science. That`s why I am here, in this science forum. Hope to see your guided links.

 

Nicholas

It was 30 years or so ago that I got into Oxford to study chemistry.

 

I didn't have much extra curricular activity to show- I was captain of a quiz team and I went rock climbing, but that was about it.

However, at least at that time, the University didn't care very much.

They did, however take account of the fact that, even though I was at a rather poorly regarded state-funded school, I took A level chemistry, and O level maths 2 years early and I also did the A level in physics a year early.

 

Also I did go for an interview there and that gave them a chance to find out what sort of person I was as, well as things like how well I could think when they asked questions to which I didn't know the answers.

 

Oxford was , and I think still is, is a very academically focussed institution, I understand that Cambridge, Princeton, and Caltech are similar.

 

30 years ago is much different from today, for sure, you don`t have modern internet that change our living landscape 30 years ago. Today`s world is highly competitive. To distinguish yourself from the others, assume that others are excel in their academics, I think universities would rely on your extra curricular activities performance to determine your position when deciding on your scholarships and your ability to enter the university itself.

The thing is that ivy leagues typically have more excellent students than they can accept. Extra-curricular activities are just the cherry on top to distinguish yourself from all the other equally excellent students. If you are not competitive in that regard, there is little that extras could do.

 

I understand what the first 2 sentences mean. But I don`t understand the third sentence. You mean I must be competitive in extra curricular activities to be excel? What do you mean by "there is little that extras could do"?

[Ophiolite]

I am just following the norm.

I regret the need to blunt be. People who follow the norm do not get accepted by Oxford or Cambridge. Only extraordinarily gifted people, who have demonstrated their abilities do. If you wish to follow the norm then apply for another UK or US university where acceptance will be easier and the education almost as good - and sometimes better - than Oxford or Cambridge. But as others have noted, it is your academic attainments that will be important to getting in to any of these.

[ajb]

... "there is little that extras could do"?

When a university has more A++ students than it can take on, then they have to look at other things when deciding who to give offers to.

... - and sometimes better - than Oxford or Cambridge.

Also not everyone who gets into these places fits in and I know people who left in their first year.

[Nicholas Kang]

Only extraordinarily gifted people, who have demonstrated their abilities do.

 

I am not part of them, maybe.

But as others have noted, it is your academic attainments that will be important to getting in to any of these.

 

When a university has more A++ students than it can take on, then they have to look at other things when deciding who to give offers to.

 

Some agree that extra curricular activities are important, some do not. Who/which is correct?

[ajb]

Some agree that extra curricular activities are important, some do not. Who/which is correct?

Well, for the top universities they can be a way of helping them sort out who to give offers to when all else is equal. And by equal we mean A+++ scores.

 

For most universities I expect the extra activites won't matter much, as long as your grades are what they are looking for.

 

So the answer is not yes or no. Whatever, your grades are the most important thing.

[Nicholas Kang]

Frankly, I think I have been doing well in my studies, just the extra-curricular activities are the ones I missed. So, any suggestions?