WHAT CAUSE CURVE-LINED MOVEMENT OF QUANTA?

[Kramer]

 

WHAT CAUSE CURVE-LINED MOVEMENT OF QUANTA?
In the news, about a model atom’s experiment in Washington University Missouri, the electron performed circular spherical trajectories with a figure like a deformed clew of thread.
Indeed, this was a model. But the idea that electron in atom performs circular spherical trajectories, is something (I think) contradictory with “statement that electron is wave”.
Now I am convinced that, no scientist has absolute argument to tread electron as “ wave” and to deprive it from its status as “mass particle”, as “charged particle”.

But in this thread I want to learn about mechanism of trajectories of quanta, stripped by “mass”, stripped by “electric charge”, --- a simple quanta.
Please illuminate me about the cause that forces “electron as waves”, and in general whatever quanta, to move in curve-lined trajectories, instead of linear movement of “light’s quanta”.

 

[Sensei]

Do you mean something like this, from Cloud Chamber & Bubble Chamber x-ray photos?

 

 

It's result of presence of magnetic field (magnet or electro magnet) below particle detector chamber.

It's used to reveal charge, mass and momentum of particle. Positively charged particles are "curling" in reverse direction than negative, and neutral don't curl at all.

And it's additionally restricting volume it's traveling (long trace could optionally exceed chamber otherwise).

 

If you would follow my suggestions to build your own Cloud Chamber, you would see these traces on your own eyes..

 

ps. If you would strip middle of post, this question could be as well asked in mainstream part of this forum...

Can't you constrain yourself to just asking questions about things you want to learn.. ?

Edited August 22, 2014 by Sensei

[swansont]

 

In the news

 

 

What news? This is where you provide a link, so the rest of us can tell what you're talking about.

[Strange]

In the news, about a model atom’s experiment in Washington University Missouri, the electron performed circular spherical trajectories with a figure like a deformed clew of thread.

 

As I am not a mind reader, I have no idea what you are talking about.

 

 

But the idea that electron in atom performs circular spherical trajectories, is something (I think) contradictory with “statement that electron is wave”.

 

As electrons clearly have wave properties (electron microscope, double-slit interference, etc) and can also be constrained to circular movements (e.g. in a synchrotron) it would seem you are wrong.

 

 

But in this thread I want to learn about mechanism of trajectories of quanta, stripped by “mass”, stripped by “electric charge”, --- a simple quanta.

 

The only quanta I am aware of with no charge and no mass is the photon. What do you want to know about it?

[Strange]

In the news, about a model atom’s experiment in Washington University Missouri, the electron performed circular spherical trajectories with a figure like a deformed clew of thread.

 

This?

http://news.wustl.edu/news/Pages/27133.aspx

 

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v511/n7511/full/nature13559.html?WT.mc_id=TWT_NatureMagazine

http://arxiv.org/abs/1403.4992

 

Maybe someone else can explain what this is about. It is over my head. But I assume that the trajectories are not physical paths through space, but through state space?

Edited August 23, 2014 by Strange

[Kramer]

 

Sensei

Do you mean something like this, from Cloud Chamber & Bubble Chamber x-ray photos?

---- No. Those in your chamber are all charged particle.
Strange

As electrons clearly have wave properties (electron microscope, double-slit interference, etc) and can also be constrained to circular movements (e.g. in a synchrotron) it would seem you are wrong.

---- It is different saying: “electron reveal property of waves” from “electron is wave”. I think you admit the difference.
Swansont and Strange.
----- Sorry that I was so inaccurate in my post about the source that pushed me. And thanks Strange, for your help to mend my inaccuracy.
But I thought that the idea of my thread is about trajectories of matter: For mass or mass-less particles, and their cause of movement, their mechanism that forms different trajectories. But most about mass-less particles (alleged striped by charge and mass), pure quanta.

[Strange]

---- It is different saying: “electron reveal property of waves” from “electron is wave”. I think you admit the difference

 

Yes. Saying "an electron is a wave" is inaccurate. Saying "an electron is a particle" is inaccurate. Electrons have some properties that are similar to waves and some properties that are similar to particles. They are not either.

 

 

For mass or mass-less particles, and their cause of movement, their mechanism that forms different trajectories.

 

Massless particles (photons) travel in straight lines at the speed of light.

 

Massive particles can travel at any speed less than the speed of light, depending on their energy. They normally travel in straight lines. If they have electrical charge then an electrical or magnetic field can alter their velocity (speed them up, slow them down, change their direction).

Edited August 23, 2014 by Strange

[swansont]

 

Swansont and Strange.

----- Sorry that I was so inaccurate in my post about the source that pushed me. And thanks Strange, for your help to mend my inaccuracy.

But I thought that the idea of my thread is about trajectories of matter: For mass or mass-less particles, and their cause of movement, their mechanism that forms different trajectories. But most about mass-less particles (alleged striped by charge and mass), pure quanta.

 

 

Without context, there's no basis for a discussion. Different concepts will apply depending on the circumstances.

[Sensei]

 

Sensei

Do you mean something like this, from Cloud Chamber & Bubble Chamber x-ray photos?

---- No. Those in your chamber are all charged particle.

 

But you were talking about charged particles too:

"the electron performed circular spherical trajectories with a figure like a deformed clew of thread.

Indeed, this was a model. But the idea that electron in atom performs circular spherical trajectories, is something (I think) contradictory with “statement that electron is wave”."

Electron is charged particle..

[swansont]

!

Moderator Note

 

Kramer, you may re-introduce this subject if you provide a link to the news you were referring to and/or provide a more specific example of what you are asking about. People are trying to answer you but you have to meet us halfway.