Scottish Independence.

[pears]

They want independence from the UK parliament in London, not the EU. There's a huge difference between the two.

[Delbert]

So maybe it is just greed after all. Maybe they expect wealth from oil and gas like in Norway?

Or perhaps Uruguay? Who I understand has oil etc.

 

They want independence from the UK parliament in London, not the EU. There's a huge difference between the two.

Yes that's right. They'll be just one of 28, I believe. No that's wrong, upon joining they'll be one of 29. Whereas with England, they were (assuming a 'yes') one of two.

[John Cuthber]

 

 

Yes that's right. They'll be just one of 28, I believe. No that's wrong, upon joining they'll be one of 29. Whereas with England, they were (assuming a 'yes') one of two.

You are about to be beaten to death by the Welsh.

[Delbert]

You are about to be beaten to death by the Welsh.

I was waiting for that. Not forgetting Northern Ireland. Then I understand there's the Cornish...

 

I'm sure you know I used England as a default because the UK might be referred to something different following a yes vote - not forgetting the Union Jack.

 

Frankly, I'm hoping for a 'no' vote because it may then disappear from the media headlines - it bores the life out of me. Since with a 'yes' vote we'll doubtless be hearing all about progress and consequences in the media for time immemorial - and that will really give me the yawns.

[John Cuthber]

I was waiting for that. Not forgetting Northern Ireland. Then I understand there's the Cornish...

 

I'm sure you know I used England as a default because the UK might be referred to something different following a yes vote - not forgetting the Union Jack.

 

I thought you said one of 2 because you didn't realise it was one of 4.

[Delbert]

I thought you said one of 2 because you didn't realise it was one of 4.

This is semantics and getting silly. I used the word England to cover everything within these islands except Scotland should they say yes.

[John Cuthber]

This is semantics and getting silly. I used the word England to cover everything within these islands except Scotland should they say yes.

That is "semantics" in the same way that it would be a "semantic" error to use the word "Italy" to describe the bits of the UK that are not Scotland.

It is a semantic error, because semantics is the study of meaning and "England" doesn't mean what you used it for.

However it's just plain wrong.

 

In any event, it's not the use of the word that matters- it's the inability to count.

 

Whatever you call the places, there is a difference between being one of 4 and being 1 of 2.

 

And yes, it's silly. It was silly when you got it wrong in the first place, and it's not getting any less so while you try to pretend you got it right.

 

Two simply isn't four.

 

Meanwhile, back at the topic,

What worries me is the fact that, without the Scots, the (whatever we are going to call the leftovers) will be stuck with a Tory government for the foreseeable future.

Edited September 4, 2014 by John Cuthber

[Delbert]

Whatever you call the places, there is a difference between being one of 4 and being 1 of 2.

Well, as far as I recollect or tell, the proponents of separation only seem to refer to being controlled by, and want separation from, Westminster. I don't recall them mentioning anything about being controlled by a group of 4.

 

What worries me is the fact that, without the Scots, the (whatever we are going to call the leftovers) will be stuck with a Tory government for the foreseeable future.

In case you've missed it, we live in a democracy and we get stuck with whatever we vote for. That's one of the consequences of a democracy. You say stuck with a Tory government. I say we were stuck with a disastrous Labour government for 13 years.

 

But as like you said: back to the subject.

 

In contrast to the media consequences I mentioned above, I think a 'yes' vote will be fantastic. Taking one aspect of defence, I believe the main proponent has said when questioned about defence: what enemy? Well, what's the betting odds of a reality test if the Russians send a few more Bear bombers over to test things out? I should think that the possibility of an incursion might be in their thoughts should things develop, as it would be an ideal pincer movement on Europe. Shouts of Impossible do I hear? Don't you believe it.

 

And then there's the currency. They say the Pound. So their plan is to use someone else's currency of which they'll have no control! How can that be separation?

Edited September 5, 2014 by Delbert

[John Cuthber]

"In case you've missed it, we live in a democracy and we get stuck with whatever we vote for".

What I missed was a box on the ballot paper marked "coalition of two parties with opposed ideologies- to the extent that their usual names, Conservative and Liberal, are antonyms- who are both so keen to get into power that they got into bed together".

 

First past the post isn't a very democratic system.

And when the outcome is a government that wasn't even on any ballot paper there's not a lot of point trying to tell me it's a democracy.

 

Broadly speaking, from the point of view of the North of the UK, we vote Labour and get Tory.

 

"And then there's the currency. They say the Pound. So their plan is to use someone else's currency of which they'll have no control! How can that be separation?"

Try going to an underdeveloped country. You will find that they use the US dollar for currency.

It works just fine.

There's no real reason why Scotland couldn't do something similar.

They could also do what the Irish did and adopt a new currency, or they might choose to join the Euro.

[Delbert]

What I missed was a box on the ballot paper marked "coalition of two parties with opposed ideologies- to the extent that their usual names,

It was either a coalition with another party or a minority government. And as for an alternative voting system, AV (think that's what it was called) was offered and rejected by the people. Don't tell me, it should've been something else.

 

Broadly speaking, from the point of view of the North of the UK, we vote Labour and get Tory.

Again that's democracy. Doubtless there'll always be a large section of people that take the view that they have the wrong government. I voted conservative and had to tolerate two lunatics in power for 13 years; but I accepted it without complaint (accept for these remarks) as being what happens in a democracy.

 

Try going to an underdeveloped country. You will find that they use the US dollar for currency.

It works just fine.

So, being underdeveloped with a foreign currency is viewed as working just fine?

 

As for Scotland, and contrary to what I said previously, I may have changed my mind by hoping for a 'yes' vote. Because the ramifications of using a foreign currency will be mildly interesting. Might be worth a joke or two in the pub.

Edited September 5, 2014 by Delbert

[Dekan]

Surely Scots don't really want to break up the United Kingdom. It'd be like going back to the Middle Ages. Who wants that? The whole idea of so-called "Independence" never entered any Scot's sensible head, until the puppet politicians, TV and newspapers started relentlessly plugging it.

 

Anyone can see that it's just part of a blatant conspiracy. Which is to shatter all European states into small bits - so that they can be more easily controlled by a Global World Government.

[John Cuthber]

"Surely Scots don't really want to break up the United Kingdom. It'd be like going back to the Middle Ages."

What?!

 

Just for a start, three were roughly two centuries after the middle ages and before the act of Union.

 

"Who wants that? "

According to the polls, a large (and growing) fraction of the voters.

 

"Anyone can see that it's just part of a blatant conspiracy."

Oh!, I see now- it's a conspiracy theory, so it doesn't have to make sense.

Edited September 6, 2014 by John Cuthber

[DimaMazin]

 

Anyone can see that it's just part of a blatant conspiracy. Which is to shatter all European states into small bits - so that they can be more easily controlled by a Global World Government.

No, Scots don't want to participate in military and scientific competitions, because whiskey is more important.

Edited September 7, 2014 by DimaMazin

[imatfaal]

No, Scots don't want to participate in military and scientific competitions, because whiskey is more important.

 

For a country of about 5 million (and smaller in the past) I think you will struggle to find a country other than Scotland with a finer record of producing great Scientists and (unfortunately?) dangerously brave Soldiers

[DimaMazin]

 

For a country of about 5 million (and smaller in the past) I think you will struggle to find a country other than Scotland with a finer record of producing great Scientists and (unfortunately?) dangerously brave Soldiers

Will that be the same in independent Scotland?

Edited September 7, 2014 by DimaMazin

[Delbert]

My history is somewhat lacking, but wasn't it James VI of Scotland that came down to ascend the English throne and became James I? In other words, it's Scotland that took over England, and not the other way around.

 

Anyway, I'm looking forward to a 'yes' vote with all the consequences. The consequences like Scotland would thus become a foreign country. And not only then not being part of the EU, there would presumably be the need for border controls and passport requirements to cross into England. And also, presumably we could refuse entry. Then there's the currency, the consequences of which sound very interesting - consequences of using the Pound. And as for a new currency, that, I think, would be even more interesting.

Edited September 8, 2014 by Delbert

[DimaMazin]

My history is somewhat lacking, but wasn't it James VI of Scotland that came down to ascend the English throne and became James I? In other words, it's Scotland that took over England, and not the other way around.

 

Anyway, I'm looking forward to a 'yes' vote with all the consequences. The consequences like Scotland would thus become a foreign country. And not only then not being part of the EU, there would presumably be the need for border controls and passport requirements to cross into England. And also, presumably we could refuse entry. Then there's the currency, the consequences of which sound very interesting - consequences of using the Pound. And as for a new currency, that, I think, would be even more interesting.

In your dream I see only new senseless workplaces which make no development .

[Bill Angel]

If Britain and Scotland split, won't it put Scottish students at a financial disadvantage, compared to their current situation, if they wish to enroll and pay tuition at a British college or university?

Edited September 8, 2014 by Bill Angel

[CaptainPanic]

If Britain and Scotland split, won't it put Scottish students at a financial disadvantage, compared to their current situation, if they wish to enroll and pay tuition at a British college or university?

 

I think there are MANY practical issues that have not been fully resolved, and that are not being discussed. All cross-border traffic will be affected somehow: people living on one side of the border and working on the other side. Goods, waste and energy that crosses the border will now become international traffic. Pension funds, car insurances, and whatever financial agreements exist between people in Scotland and companies in England, and vice versa will be affected.

 

Some of these issues can be easily solved with a treaty between the two nations, and some won't be (otherwise what is the point of being independent if everything stays the same?).

[DimaMazin]

If Britain and Scotland split, won't it put Scottish students at a financial disadvantage, compared to their current situation, if they wish to enroll and pay tuition at a British college or university?

To be a customs officer is easier than to be a physicist. The split will simplify their life.

[Delbert]

In your dream I see only new senseless workplaces which make no development .

Think it's a bit more than dreaming; just read that house purchase transactions have stalled. Stalled apparently because finance companies are not sure about the value of currency should Scotland go for a new one. And similarly if they use the Pound. Indeed, house values have reportedly dropped already. Think it was also reported they are worried about the 4 billion (think that was the amount) already loaned. Far from being a dream, it sounds like it's building up quite well. Yes, I make no excuses to being a voyeur.

 

As for a general view, I don't see what all the political heat is all about. If Scotland wants to go it alone then I can't see why the rest of us should get too worked up in a lather. If they want to go, just go. But don't look to us for a bob or two if it all goes wrong.

[DimaMazin]

Think it's a bit more than dreaming; just read that house purchase transactions have stalled. Stalled apparently because finance companies are not sure about the value of currency should Scotland go for a new one. And similarly if they use the Pound. Indeed, house values have reportedly dropped already. Think it was also reported they are worried about the 4 billion (think that was the amount) already loaned. Far from being a dream, it sounds like it's building up quite well. Yes, I make no excuses to being a voyeur.

 

As for a general view, I don't see what all the political heat is all about. If Scotland wants to go it alone then I can't see why the rest of us should get too worked up in a lather. If they want to go, just go. But don't look to us for a bob or two if it all goes wrong.

And so Scotland wants to worsen ability of its people to recieve knowledges ! When people don't want to know science then all goes wrong! Science isn't a bob!

Edited September 9, 2014 by DimaMazin

[Delbert]

And so Scotland wants to worsen ability of recieving knowledges by its people! When people don't want to know science then all goes wrong! Science isn't a bob!

I haven't the foggiest to what it is you're talking about.

 

As for this Scotland business, and if I've not made my view too clear, I'll try again. If someone came to me and said they were dissatisfied with conditions, I'd say: be kind enough to close the door as you leave. Likewise with Scotland.

 

And as for this cancellation of PM's question time tomorrow, that's nothing more than cowering to threats. Did Drake stop his game of bowls?

[DimaMazin]

 

As for this Scotland business, and if I've not made my view too clear, I'll try again. If someone came to me and said they were dissatisfied with conditions, I'd say: be kind enough to close the door as you leave. Likewise with Scotland.

 

It's your personal deal. But many Scots don't want to lose UK and UK doesn't want to lose Scotland. I assume the separatists are backward politicians, then it is large risk. I can't see reason, Scots need to risk due to which .

[MigL]

Latest poll is 51% to 49% in favour of independence.

Stock markets are already falling to be followed by the government.

This could get ugly.

 

I blame Sean Connery, swansont.