yahya515 Posted November 16, 2014 Author Posted November 16, 2014 Ghosts lived with Cain!! Genesis chapter 4 "And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD. 2 And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.........And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.......and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me." At that time there were only three people, Adam , Eve, Cain, and Abel was killed, so who will run after Cain to kill him? will Adam or Eve kill their son? only if God ordered them, but God did not "And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him." and even if Cain lived many years and during these years other people were born, those were Cain's close relatives, nobody from Cain's close relatives will kill him, nobody will correct a mistake by doing another mistake, and another thing Abel died without having sons so who would kill Cain, only if there was Abel's Ghost running after him!! I think the writer of the book, likes the idea of putting marks by God , it appears a lot in the old Testament, even circumcision is a kind of mark. so he invented the idea that Cain was chased, in order to give him the holy old Testament mark!!
ajb Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 The mistake here is that there was no Adam and Eve.
Robittybob1 Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 The mistake here is that there was no Adam and Eve. Does the Quran mention Adam and Eve?
ajb Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 Does the Quran mention Adam and Eve? Yes. I believe the story is similar, but with a few subtle differences. You can google this and find comparisons.
Ophiolite Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 The mistake here is that there was no Adam and Eve. This is incorrect. If we recognise that the Hebrews used the full range of literary devices, including metaphor, then Adam and Eve cease to be individuals, but become proxies for the first humans. As such it evokes a concept similar to that of the Noble Savage (and probably as inaccurate). We should not underestimate the knowledge of their ignorance that the writers of Genesis probably possessed.
Robittybob1 Posted November 17, 2014 Posted November 17, 2014 This is incorrect. If we recognise that the Hebrews used the full range of literary devices, including metaphor, then Adam and Eve cease to be individuals, but become proxies for the first humans. As such it evokes a concept similar to that of the Noble Savage (and probably as inaccurate). We should not underestimate the knowledge of their ignorance that the writers of Genesis probably possessed. Those that study genetics of the human origins use terms like Genetic Adam and genetic Eve. They don't seem to be living at the same time.
yahya515 Posted November 18, 2014 Author Posted November 18, 2014 Does the Quran mention Adam and Eve? similar with less details .
Robittybob1 Posted November 19, 2014 Posted November 19, 2014 similar with less details . How do you feel about what this guy says? Adam and Eve were NOT first humans: Ahmed Kutty
Ophiolite Posted November 19, 2014 Posted November 19, 2014 (edited) He mixes science and religion in a manner that is unlikely to sit comfortably with either perspective. I suppose that is what Fox considers to be a broadcast about cutting edge, evolutionary science. Edited November 19, 2014 by Ophiolite
Moontanman Posted November 19, 2014 Posted November 19, 2014 Ghosts lived with Cain!! Genesis chapter 4 "And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD. 2 And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.........And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.......and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me." At that time there were only three people, Adam , Eve, Cain, and Abel was killed, so who will run after Cain to kill him? will Adam or Eve kill their son? only if God ordered them, but God did not "And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him." and even if Cain lived many years and during these years other people were born, those were Cain's close relatives, nobody from Cain's close relatives will kill him, nobody will correct a mistake by doing another mistake, and another thing Abel died without having sons so who would kill Cain, only if there was Abel's Ghost running after him!! I think the writer of the book, likes the idea of putting marks by God , it appears a lot in the old Testament, even circumcision is a kind of mark. so he invented the idea that Cain was chased, in order to give him the holy old Testament mark!! Who did Cain and Abel marry to have children with,,, 1
yahya515 Posted November 19, 2014 Author Posted November 19, 2014 How do you feel about what this guy says? Adam and Eve were NOT first humans: Ahmed Kutty the Qur'an does not present a period of time since Adam and Eve, if we consider this man is right, he adds another mistake to the Bible! Who did Cain and Abel marry to have children with,,, God gave them women as he did for Adam you may notice that Cain married a woman without speaking to her father.
Robittybob1 Posted November 19, 2014 Posted November 19, 2014 the Qur'an does not present a period of time since Adam and Eve, if we consider this man is right, he adds another mistake to the Bible! God gave them women as he did for Adam you may notice that Cain married a woman without speaking to her father. Another mistake in the Bible! What are you really trying to say?
yahya515 Posted November 19, 2014 Author Posted November 19, 2014 Another mistake in the Bible! What are you really trying to say? Christians say that Adam lived 6000 years from now according to the Bible and this man shows that humans lived 25000 years( I am not sure his accent is terrible ) . which means that the Bible is wrong.
Robittybob1 Posted November 19, 2014 Posted November 19, 2014 Christians say that Adam lived 6000 years from now according to the Bible and this man shows that humans lived 25000 years( I am not sure his accent is terrible ) . which means that the Bible is wrong. Would you like to say what the Muslims teach?
ajb Posted November 20, 2014 Posted November 20, 2014 Christians say that Adam lived 6000 years from now according to the Bible and this man shows that humans lived 25000 years( I am not sure his accent is terrible ) . which means that the Bible is wrong. I don't think the bible actually states when the Man, the Earth and the Universe were created, but rather some people have tried to deduce this from the bible by taking it very literally. This is young Earth creationism and gives the age of the Universe as 6,000 to 10,000 years. The evidence for the age of the Earth points to more like 4.5 billion years. There are also old Earth creationism where Christians and Jews take the story of genesis as metaphor. The account is not taken so literally. Would you like to say what the Muslims teach? I was under the impression that Muslims generally accept the Old Testament. I would thus expect a similar 'estimate' of the age of the Universe as young Earth creationists. But I await to be corrected.
yahya515 Posted November 20, 2014 Author Posted November 20, 2014 Would you like to say what the Muslims teach? I do not think Muslims have estimated the age of the universe , since the Qur'an has little details, but I think it is more than 6000 the flood of Noah caused the whole world to destroy to begin again with Noah and his family and Noah was at late time (comparing to the time of Adam) because there was the Ark invention.
Robittybob1 Posted November 20, 2014 Posted November 20, 2014 I do not think Muslims have estimated the age of the universe , since the Qur'an has little details, but I think it is more than 6000 the flood of Noah caused the whole world to destroy to begin again with Noah and his family and Noah was at late time (comparing to the time of Adam) because there was the Ark invention. The story of Noah's Ark was one of the first things I found real suspect about the Bible. There is no way there is enough water in the Earth to cover all the lands, mountains etc. Yet I do believe the Earth did have a lot more water on it billions of years ago. Could Muslims drop the idea of Adam and Eve and Noah and become modernised?
Willie71 Posted November 20, 2014 Posted November 20, 2014 The age of the universe according to the bible Is derived from adding up all the begats. It's about 6000 years. All three Abrahamis religions are based on the same God of Abraham through Moses and so on. I'm assuming it's the same approximate lineage, and therefore about the same age. I may be wrong as I have the Koran but haven't finished reading it. It's much more poetic than the bible, almost like reading a song. It's less violent than the bible, but it's just a matter of degree though. I did a Google search, and it appears some muslims think the world is 6000 years old. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/8814298/Richard-Dawkins-attacks-Muslim-schools-for-stuffing-childrens-minds-with-alien-rubbish.html Other sources disagree. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_views_on_evolution
Acme Posted November 20, 2014 Posted November 20, 2014 I do not think Muslims have estimated the age of the universe , since the Qur'an has little details, but I think it is more than 6000 the flood of Noah caused the whole world to destroy to begin again with Noah and his family and Noah was at late time (comparing to the time of Adam) because there was the Ark invention.The flood story and the garden of Eden in Genesis, as well as parts of Ecclesiastes, are rewrites taken from the earlier Sumerian Epic of Gilgamesh. If selective plagiarism is a mistake, then that's another few for the Bible. So too we should consider the Apocrypha mistakes whether as mistakes of inclusion or exclusion.
Eise Posted November 20, 2014 Posted November 20, 2014 I did a Google search, and it appears some muslims think the world is 6000 years old. I assume they just took over the Christian calculation by James Ussher.
Moontanman Posted November 20, 2014 Posted November 20, 2014 I do not think Muslims have estimated the age of the universe , since the Qur'an has little details, but I think it is more than 6000 the flood of Noah caused the whole world to destroy to begin again with Noah and his family and Noah was at late time (comparing to the time of Adam) because there was the Ark invention. A world wide flood is evidently false, the mere existence of animals like echinoderms and cephalopods not to mention other obligate freshwater and marine animals and trees and plants show unequivocally that no world wide flood occurred.
yahya515 Posted November 21, 2014 Author Posted November 21, 2014 A world wide flood is evidently false, the mere existence of animals like echinoderms and cephalopods not to mention other obligate freshwater and marine animals and trees and plants show unequivocally that no world wide flood occurred. why the existence of marine and freshwater animals makes Noah's flood imaginary ?
Robittybob1 Posted November 21, 2014 Posted November 21, 2014 why the existence of marine and freshwater animals makes Noah's flood imaginary ? I think he means that if the waters were so high to cover the mountains the oceans would have to mix with the flood water over the land so the whole becomes salty. So not fresh water fish could survive, or they had to re-evolve post flood.
ajb Posted November 22, 2014 Posted November 22, 2014 If Noah's flood was real, then it was most likely some local even in or prehistory. I assume this happened somewhere in the Mediterranean area.
yahya515 Posted November 22, 2014 Author Posted November 22, 2014 I assume this happened somewhere in the Mediterranean area. yes, the world at that time was not the seven continents!!
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