US-Americans mean their country was most democratic?

[MigL]

Are you now stooping to calling me a bigot Acme ?

Or am I misunderstanding ?

 

No really, it wasn't clear from your post.

[Acme]

 

 

The latinos you are referring to Mr.Zurich92, are illegals.

All legal latinos call themselves Americans and have appropriate rights and obligations.

Poppycock! Latinos, whether American citizens or no, refer to themselves as Latinos and/or Latinas. It is no different than Black Americans referring to themselves as Blacks or Irish Americans referring to themselves as Irish inasmuch as these terms refer to heritage. It is your kind of attitude Mr.MigL that leads Mr.Zurich to inquire about the big deal and the big deal is bigotry the same as in his own country or any other.

 

Are you now stooping to calling me a bigot Acme ?

Or am I misunderstanding ?

 

No really, it wasn't clear from your post.

 

I'm straight-up saying you misrepresented Latinos and the big deal in the US South in your reply to Mr.Zurich.

[zapatos]

I'm straight-up saying you misrepresented Latinos and the big deal in the US South in your reply to Mr.Zurich.

Sorry but I must have missed it. In what way has MigL misrepresented Latinos and the big deal in the South? I was under the impression that MigL was just saying that there is a difference between how legal Latinos and illegal Latinos are treated in this country.

[Roamer]

Did the Dutch even have the right to vote if they want the EURO as currency?

 

Nope, but that wouldn't 've made much difference, the general public would 've been swayed by "easier on vacations" and not understanding the economic implications(like most economists)

 

 

Do you know what is even far less democratic than representative democracies? The European Union!

 

 

Autocracy.

 

 

So please don't say the USA was the most democratic country on earth!

 

 

I doubt most Americans actually think that btw, iirc only a third of their population still bothers to vote.

I think what you saw was some propaganda by their government, bringing democracy to some of the various countries they invaded.(they 're now "fighting terrorism" btw)

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Endy0816]

Sorry but I must have missed it. In what way has MigL misrepresented Latinos and the big deal in the South? I was under the impression that MigL was just saying that there is a difference between how legal Latinos and illegal Latinos are treated in this country.

 

No, about how legal Hispanic immigrants don't refer to themselves as Latinos and that those who do are illegal. Very inaccurate as most sweeping generalizations tend to be and depending on who you are talking to, insulting. I see Hispanic, Latino, latinoamericano and latino americano, used as a self descriptive on a regular basis.

 

Nope, but that wouldn't 've made much difference, the general public would 've been swayed by "easier on vacations" and not understanding the economic implications(like most economists)

 

Yeah, that was just kind of dubious without a means to ensure country fiscal policy follows suit.

 

They aren't widespread by any stretch of the imagination, but even the US has what amount to local currencies in some places.

Edited September 10, 2014 by Endy0816

[Mr.Zurich92]

 

 

 

 

 

That's correct the European Union is an Autocracy!

Edited September 10, 2014 by Mr.Zurich92

[Roamer]

Yeah, that was just kind of dubious without a means to ensure country fiscal policy follows suit. Somebody is getting easy money and someone else is having to worry about the effects of bailing them out.

 

This is true.

On the other hand, Greece maintained itself pre-euro by devaluating it's currency a lot(which is what all euro-countries did pre-euro and are now desperately trying to do with the euro)

not saying it is the best economic policy, but it was their economic policy.

 

 

 

They aren't widespread by any stretch of the imagination, but even the US has what amount to local currencies in some places.

 

If only the euro was introduced as a currency for international trade without replacing national currencies the eurozone would have so much more room t manouver.

[MigL]

My apologies Endy0816, I really didn't realize my post could be interpreted that way. I assure you that's not the way it was meant.

 

I intended to mean that legal Americans ( and even a lot of the illegals ) are proud to call themselves Americans. It is only locally that they identify their race/culture.

I don't live in the US, but I assure you, any visitors/tourists we get in Canada don't call themselves Latinos, Hispanics, etc.

They call themselves American !

[Endy0816]

My apologies Endy0816, I really didn't realize my post could be interpreted that way. I assure you that's not the way it was meant.

 

I intended to mean that legal Americans ( and even a lot of the illegals ) are proud to call themselves Americans. It is only locally that they identify their race/culture.

I don't live in the US, but I assure you, any visitors/tourists we get in Canada don't call themselves Latinos, Hispanics, etc.

They call themselves American !

 

That's a good way to put it

 

 

This is true.

On the other hand, Greece maintained itself pre-euro by devaluating it's currency a lot(which is what all euro-countries did pre-euro and are now desperately trying to do with the euro)

not saying it is the best economic policy, but it was their economic policy.

 

Sad but true, that is the single lasting economic policy in all of human history.

 

If only the euro was introduced as a currency for international trade without replacing national currencies the eurozone would have so much more room t manouver.

 

In theory you could make the whole system more flexible instead. Have the value of your money shift based on location.

 

Be controversial but everything would work better.

[MigL]

I may be controversial again, but I don't think its the Euro that's messing up European economies, its their way of life and how its tied to their fiscal policies.

Even before the Euro there were areas which struggled and other areas which resented having to support them. They were areas of individual countries though. Just as there are now countries in the Euro zone which have good work ethics ( Germany comes to mind ) and countries which are irresponsible and live one election at a time ( sure I was born there so I'll pick on Italy), there were areas in Italy, when they still had the Lira, which were irresponsible and corrupt ( the southern half ). They cannot grow the economy in the Italian south because any industry which relocates there has to put up with a few days a week absenteeism of employees. Politicians are always promising lower taxes to get re-elected and increase borrowing to compensate. I have a house and property in Italy and pay hardly any property taxes ( in Canada I pay over 6000 can$ per yr ), yet Italians still expect to retire early and all other benefits.

 

How can their economy not be in the dumps, whether they use the Euro or the Lira ?

Edited September 12, 2014 by MigL

[Mr.Zurich92]

I may be controversial again, but I don't think its the Euro that's messing up European economies, its their way of life and how its tied to their fiscal policies.

Even before the Euro there were areas which struggled and other areas which resented having to support them. They were areas of individual countries though. Just as there are now countries in the Euro zone which have good work ethics ( Germany comes to mind ) and countries which are irresponsible and live one election at a time ( sure I was born there so I'll pick on Italy), there were areas in Italy, when they still had the Lira, which were irresponsible and corrupt ( the southern half ). They cannot grow the economy in the Italian south because any industry which relocates there has to put up with a few days a week absenteeism of employees. Politicians are always promising lower taxes to get re-elected and increase borrowing to compensate. I have a house and property in Italy and pay hardly any property taxes ( in Canada I pay over 6000 can$ per yr ), yet Italians still expect to retire early and all other benefits.

 

How can their economy not be in the dumps, whether they use the Euro or the Lira ?

Corruption is a problem in entire Italy not only in the south. It has to do with their mentality! It's how they are.

 

 

My mother is from South Italy. The organized criminality do harm the economy in South Italy. There is no investor who wants to invest in a new

waste incinerating plant, because they fear of the Camorra, that's why! The result is Napoli has a big waste problem.

 

 

Of course if you would build a factory in Calabria, you would have workers who are missing at work a lot of time, but a bigger issue are the

’Ndrangheta! You have to pay to them that you can have there your factory. And from time to time they want to have more money from you, otherwise you get trouble with them.

 

 

Mafia= cancer

Edited September 12, 2014 by Mr.Zurich92

[Roamer]

How can their economy not be in the dumps, whether they use the Euro or the Lira ?

There is only one difference between the lira and the euro, and that is the size of of the area that uses it as currency,

as i was trying to point out, the countries using the euro are different, and have different problems and so they also have need for differend solutions/policies.

It 's not comparing the euro to the lira, it's comparing the euro to ALL the currencies it replaced.

[Endy0816]

If it were still on the Lira, the Lira could drop down in value, decreasing the(effective) labor and bribe costs to the point where it would be profitable to employ people.

 

Since it isn't though, one should reasonably expect inflation, federalization and subsidies. One way or another market forces will try and resolve the supply/demand issue.

[Amity]

But people don't have a say so much in the USA. Let's say a city parlament wants build a new football stadium. That cost a lot of tax money. So here a year ago, the people of Zurich city could vote if they want a new stadium(cost: minimum 250'000'000 $). A big majority said NO! So the tax money was saved.

 

Or nation level we can vote very soon if you can drive on Swiss highways maximum 140 km/j(87 mph) instead of 120 km/h(74mph). I will vote NO because there will be more car accidents if you can drive faster on highways.

 

Or it is the same with genetic modified food. 10 years ago we coukd vote if we wand to forbid genetic modified food and a majority said YES. Since then it's illegal for farmers to use semen of genetic modified food.

 

Or in a month we can vote about a change in our health system. While in the USA you go cracy because of Obamacare and put up a fuss, we can vote directly what kind of health system we want!

 

 

I hardly believe an US-citizen has such an influence!

 

Here we have the same sort of local/state gov't where we as the people can veto if certain things get built, such as large casinos here in Massachusetts. Certain cities have vetoed it while so have accepted and voted yes. The rest that you have said, are devised by the fed/state/local governments and we as the people don't have the influence that we should. I would much rather live in Switzerland due to the democracy that your country upholds. Although, on the status of Obamacare there is only a fuss because of ignorant politicians and conservatives. Overall, it has helped millions but has screwed some as well. In the end, it is actually working which the Republicans will not admit.

 

Politics in the United States are quite disgusting, really.

[Mr.Zurich92]

 

Here we have the same sort of local/state gov't where we as the people can veto if certain things get built, such as large casinos here in Massachusetts. Certain cities have vetoed it while so have accepted and voted yes. The rest that you have said, are devised by the fed/state/local governments and we as the people don't have the influence that we should. I would much rather live in Switzerland due to the democracy that your country upholds. Although, on the status of Obamacare there is only a fuss because of ignorant politicians and conservatives. Overall, it has helped millions but has screwed some as well. In the end, it is actually working which the Republicans will not admit.

 

Politics in the United States are quite disgusting, really.

Politicans generally, because they are only humans at the end. And humans are driven by primitive instincsts.

Edited September 20, 2014 by Mr.Zurich92

[Amity]

Politicans generally, because they are only humans at the end. And humans are driven by primitive instincsts.

 

I can not agree with you more.