CArbon based Life vs. Plasma based Life.

[jeremyjr]

Life based on carbon needs very especial conditions to thrive, life on earth is a clear example of that. Lots of time and research have been dedicated trying to find carbon based life elsewhere on the Universe, but that search may be too narrow because that search assumes that life can only be based on carbon.

The genesis of Life somehow appears to contradicts the second law of thermodynamics( locally, it is known that the law holds in the system under consideration), this law in essence state that: the degree of disorder or randomness(entropy) in our Universe always is increasing, but Life is characterized by an increase in order( a decrease in entropy ). It appears that when “complex” systems are considered then some “emergent” properties are present that can not be explained by consideration of basic principles. The emergency/genesis of carbon based Life is such an emergent property.

It will be very naïve to think that these emerging properties are the absolute domain of chemical reactions( carbon based/organic chemical reactions ), complex plasmas also are subject to the same emergent properties of self-organization, as it is explained in the 2008 book: Elementary Physics of Complex plasmas: http://en.bookfi.org/book/455683, so Life based on plasma could be a real possibility.

If plasma based life is a reality, then that kind of life may have been present in our Universe since very early after the Big Ban and if plasma based life follows more or less the same principles that carbon based life, then plasma based life forms had plenty of time to expand all over the Universe. Plasma based life forms can exist in “empty” space, there is nothing practically that can slow down their expansion in any direction.

Carbon based life forms could have not emerged very early in our Universe because the basic elements for carbon based life forms are created inside stars, so that implies that several billions years have to pass before these elements are abundant enough for carbon based life forms to be a reality. It could be argued( The Anthropic Principle ) that for us to be here the Universe needs to be as old as it is now, but that argument do not applies to plasma based life forms. So if that is the case plasma based life forms could be pervasive all over the Universe. We could be missing something that may be in our own backyard and we are not seeing it because we are not looking for that.

[Strange]

but that search may be too narrow because that search assumes that life can only be based on carbon.

Does it? I doubt it. Although, as it is the only example we know of, it is the only form that we know what to look for.

 

The genesis of Life somehow appears to contradicts the second law of thermodynamics

 

No it doesn't.

 

 

Elementary Physics of Complex plasmas: http://en.bookfi.org/book/455683, so Life based on plasma could be a real possibility.

 

From the description of that book, I see nothing to support the idea that plasmas could sustain life. Do you have any evidence to support this diea, or is it just random speculation?

 

 

If plasma based life is a reality, then that kind of life may have been present in our Universe since very early after the Big Ban and if plasma based life follows more or less the same principles that carbon based life, then plasma based life forms had plenty of time to expand all over the Universe. Plasma based life forms can exist in “empty” space, there is nothing practically that can slow down their expansion in any direction.

 

Then where is the evidence of this?

 

 

We could be missing something that may be in our own backyard and we are not seeing it because we are not looking for that.

 

What should we be looking for in order to identify this hypothetical form of life?

[Fuzzwood]

So, any chance of our sun harboring any life within its corona?

[Janus]

complex plasmas also are subject to the same emergent properties of self-organization, as it is explained in the 2008 book: Elementary Physics of Complex plasmas: http://en.bookfi.org/book/455683, so Life based on plasma could be a real possibility.

There is complex and there is Complex. The types of complexities mentioned in the description of the book are many magnitudes less than that needed for a form of life. Not just any complex system can support life. It takes a very special complexity for that. One the reasons carbon makes such a good basis for life is that it forms many types of molecule chains that are both flexible and durable. It is this variety that allows the degree of complexity that make life possible.

[jeremyjr]

Does it? I doubt it. Although, as it is the only example we know of, it is the only form that we know what to look for.

 

 

No it doesn't.

 

 

From the description of that book, I see nothing to support the idea that plasmas could sustain life. Do you have any evidence to support this diea, or is it just random speculation?

 

 

Then where is the evidence of this?

 

 

What should we be looking for in order to identify this hypothetical form of life?

 

In the 2008 book: "Elementary Physics of Complex Plasmas", by authors V. N. Tsytovich et al.(http://en.bookfi.org/book/455683) It is mentioned the "self-organization tendency of complex plasma" and the following striking fact: "that the description of electrostatics of DNA is surprisingly similar to that used in complex plasma". So from this is really not far fetched to infer the real possibility of the emergency/genesis of Life based on complex plasma.

 

When you ask what we should be looking for in order to identify this hypothetical form of life I can answer that we should be looking for autonomous plasma-like/amorphous objects in empty space, objects that very likely are similar to unicellular microorganisms showing the same amoebic pulsations and/or configurations, but of course nature forms always will be richer than anybody imagination. These objects of course will be very hard to spot at long distance but not at relatively close range, also very likely some of these objects will be self-luminous and will respond to electromagnetic pulses, maybe they will be found in the high levels of our atmosphere were the atmosphere is very rare, if they already had been spotted and not recognized by what they are it is likely that they were called "anomalies".

[Moontanman]

 

In the 2008 book: "Elementary Physics of Complex Plasmas", by authors V. N. Tsytovich et al.(http://en.bookfi.org/book/455683) It is mentioned the "self-organization tendency of complex plasma" and the following striking fact: "that the description of electrostatics of DNA is surprisingly similar to that used in complex plasma". So from this is really not far fetched to infer the real possibility of the emergency/genesis of Life based on complex plasma.

 

When you ask what we should be looking for in order to identify this hypothetical form of life I can answer that we should be looking for autonomous plasma-like/amorphous objects in empty space, objects that very likely are similar to unicellular microorganisms showing the same amoebic pulsations and/or configurations, but of course nature forms always will be richer than anybody imagination. These objects of course will be very hard to spot at long distance but not at relatively close range, also very likely some of these objects will be self-luminous and will respond to electromagnetic pulses, maybe they will be found in the high levels of our atmosphere were the atmosphere is very rare, if they already had been spotted and not recognized by what they are it is likely that they were called "anomalies".

 

 

That has been put forward as an explanation of or for UFOs.

[jeremyjr]

The fact that this argument have been used for what you mentioned is really irrelevant, this is a real possibility and should be explored. If "anomalies" have been spotted with plasma-like/amorphous characteristics then that really give even more weight to the argument provided above and again it should be studied exhaustively. Because if that is the case and we have plasma based life forms that move freely in empty space that will change radically lots of things. To being with then the space between planets and or stars can not be considered "empty" or void, that space have then to be considered as a huge ecosystem of plasma based life forms and life will be pervasive all over the Universe.

[jeremyjr]

Now if what you said is the case a direct search for these plasma based life forms could be a problem because the topic that you mentioned is considered taboo in many academic circles, but the search for these plasma based life forms in the high level of the atmosphere could be masked behind some "authentic" atmospheric studies, like the atmospheric scattering of electromagnetic radiation, aerosol distribution, etc.

 

I can imagine that these studies can be made with very limited resources first, since we want to make optical observations, small telescopes dimensioned for atmospheric observation should be used. Now these observations should be done in daylight in clear skies for the obvious reason of the abundance of light and it is well known for any photographer that to get the best images you need light.

 

Now it is well known that the sky scattering of visible light decrease with wavelength, it is bigger in the blue portion of the spectrum( the reason why the sky is blue ) and decreases to the red segment, it is even lower in the infrared portion of the spectrum and even lower in short radio waves. Another effect of the sky scattering of light is its masking effect, that is the reason why in daylight we can not see the stars, also this masking effect render "invisible" to the naked eye many objects that are in the atmosphere. This masking effect is very easy to check by anyone using just binoculars, by making first some observation around clouds with the binoculars and then repeating the same observations with the same binoculars but now with red filters in front of them, it will be noticed that more details are seen when using the red filters, the reason simply is that the sky scattering of light is lower in the red portion of the spectrum and its masking effect is lower.

 

Now moving to the infrared portion of the spectrum this masking effect will appear more dramatic, if the sky is scanned with an infrared capable camera using a 950nm IR pass filter( a filter that will only allow to pass the radiation around the 950nm infrared portion of spectrum ) many objects in daylight will be detected that are not visible to the naked eye, for example Mars will be relatively easy to detect in daylight using such a camera, but Mars is not visible to the naked eye in daylight, some bright stars could also be detected in daylight, but we will be mostly interested in "local" objects and we want to observe these objects optically too, then aligning and centering a medium sized telescope to the infrared capable camera, with zoom lens and a 950nm IR pass filter will result in a system able to detect many objects in the sky that are not visible to the naked eye and with the centered/aligned telescope close-ups of these objects will be possible.

 

It is not difficult to imagine with today's technology that such simple system can be setup to automatically scan the sky and track the many objects detected, latter some manual review of the obtained footage can be done, and maybe surprises will be found. If automatic tracking is not possible then manual scanning of the sky is also a possibility and then the identification of interesting objects can be done at the spot by the operator, extra analysis of the recorded footage can be done at a later time.

Some people may ask: How can you make such specific recommendations? Answer: Because I already had observed multiple times these plasma-like objects and my goal with this post is to motivate people to make similar observations and verify independently the reality of these objects. If no independent verification is done this will continue to be known for just a very limited number of people and the knowledge gained by this reduced number of people may be lost due to this generalized "social dismissal" of an extraordinary phenomenon.

 

But I am convinced that since the number of people aware of the reality of these plasma-like objects is growing it will lead to a point were the academic circles that have been blind to this until now will be forced to acknowledge something that have already been confirmed by multiple people all around the world. This is a clear cut case where the documentation and study of something extraordinary is being done by people outside academia and it is not the first time that this had happened, but is really extraordinary that is happening in the 21th century. We are very lucky to have still people that act and think independently even in the age of "organized science".

Edited September 27, 2014 by jeremyjr

[jeremyjr]

The reality of atmospheric anomalies have been known now for a while, but this knowledge have been contained to a very reduced number of people, since these people usually do not have "academic" formation or scientific training their ideas have always been mixed with superstition and subjectivism, but they have been brave and continue to be so, because even in this age of connectivity and rapid spread of information they are mostly alone in their quest.

 

I have been part of that quest for almost two years now and I have found extraordinary things:

 

1- Anomalies behave like living beings and usually they have a plasma-like appearance, that is the real genesis behind the initial post in this thread.

 

2- Anomalies can be systematically observed using "dual optical systems" in any clear sky in daylight at any location in our planet.

 

3- Some anomalies respond to direct light signals sent in their direction, usually anomalies are not visible to the naked eye because they move at very high altitude and as was explained before they are being masked by the sky scattering of visible light, but they can be detected easily using infrared capable cameras with zoom lens and IR pass filters. But some anomalies that are not visible to the naked when light signals are sent in their direction, I use a mirror for that, they unequivocally respond by increasing their brightness in such a way that they make themselves visible to the naked eye as a very bright star in daylight, this have been witnessed multiple times.

 

4- As is mentioned in 3, some anomalies respond to light signals sent in their direction, I use a mirror for that. But I do not sent random signals, I sent sequence of reflections following the prime numbers: I sent 3 reflections, pause, then 5 reflections, pause, etc. Well now in several occasions anomalies had responded in a way that is correlated to the signals sent. I mentioned that anomalies are usually plasma-like/amorphous, they change shape in a continues and apparently random way, like amoebas, in several occasions now anomalies have formed shapes representing digits, in one occasion they formed digits "3" and "5" together and in several occasions they have formed digit "3" alone and in one occasion they have formed digit "5" alone.

 

As is mentioned in previous posts, this is a report of observational claims, and as any observational claim it can be independently confirmed by anyone using the right tools, dual optical systems is one of such tools, these dual optical systems will work better if the searching/spotting part works in the short wave radio portion of the electromagnetic spectrum, as a radar, but they are very effective too if the searching spotting part works in the infrared segment. I have observed and recorded hundreds of anomalies using dual optical system using infrared capable cameras, I had gained a great deal of experience observing these objects, usually they are alone but sometimes I had observed several of them together and acting like living beings interacting.

 

I am attaching some pictures of a dual optical system, and some anomalies.

[jeremyjr]

Anomalies can be observed systematically by anyone:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEG8oWl5hy4

[jeremyjr]

This post have been expanded here: http://www.scienceforums.net/topic/85807-the-reality-of-atmosphericnear-space-anomalies/