Dark Matter (Sunshaker discussion split)

[sunshaker]

 

 

All those stars pumping light out into space. Some since the beginning of time, as we know it. And that light is still out there. We just don’t see it.

 

I often wonder of the webs of light that we do not "see", If there is something we are still missing.

I wonder about the focal points where all light from stars converge, Which would be mainly within galaxies, with webs stretching between galaxies.

 

 

IIRC the distribution of dark mater is densest in a somewhat spherical shape around the center of galaxies with strands stretching between galaxies.

cosmic projectors.

Edited September 27, 2014 by sunshaker

[sunshaker]

I am unsure about photons colliding from stars,

 

 

For example, in order for two photons to collide and produce an electron-positron pair, the incident photons need an initial energy of more than 1 MeV - that is 1,000,000 eV whereas ordinary photons of visible light only have an energy of 1-2 eV range.

But as there are 100's of billions of stars throwing out photons in every direction, At the focal points where all light/photons from stars converge,There must be Billions of photons colliding/passing through each other at any point in space? Each with energies of 1 MeV, Plus gamma ray photons, Are these energies multiplied by each other at focal points allowing collisions to happen producing many electron-positron pairs?

[Strange]

I wonder about the focal points where all light from stars converge

 

What makes you think that such focal points exist?

There must be Billions of photons colliding/passing through each other at any point in space? Each with energies of 1 MeV, Plus gamma ray photons, Are these energies multiplied by each other at focal points allowing collisions to happen producing many electron-positron pairs?

 

There are relatively few photons with energies above 1MeV. And most of those do not come from stars.

 

Also, if they create electron-positron pairs, there is no new mass-energy created so there is no change to the gravitational effect.

 

And then the positron will quickly annihilate with an electron, recreating the original gamma rays.

[sunshaker]

 

What makes you think that such focal points exist?

 

 

I cannot see how they don't exist, Even on earth the light from ever observable star will converge on any point of the planet, Our planet being a focal point, But in space every point would be a focal point where photons cross paths..

 

http://www.theguardian.com/science/2014/may/18/matter-light-photons-electrons-positrons

 

 

Matter will be created from light within a year, claim scientists

In a neat demonstration of E=mc2, physicists believe they can create electrons and positrons from colliding photons

 

 

The scientists' calculations show that the setup squeezes enough particles of light with high enough energies into a small enough volume to create around 100,000 electron-positron pairs.

So I thought maybe over billions of years photon collisions at these focal points may be a factor in the formation of planets.

So in effect multiplying 1MeV many billions of times at each point producing (matter).

Edited September 27, 2014 by sunshaker

[Strange]

I cannot see how they don't exist, Even on earth the light from ever observable star will converge on any point of the planet, Our planet being a focal point, But in space every point would be a focal point where photons cross paths..

 

Light does not "converge" on our planet. The light from the sun, for example, is diverging even as some of it falls on the Earth. And it falls on every part of the Earth. So it is not a focal point.

 

And if photons pass through "every point" (they do) then no point is a focal point.

 

So I thought maybe over billions of years photon collisions at these focal points may be a factor in the formation of planets.

So in effect multiplying 1MeV many billions of times at each point producing (matter).

 

Even if it happens, what difference do you think it would make?

 

Also, it would produce both matter and antimatter. The antimatter would rapidly annihilate with an equal amount of matter, producing photons. So no net change.

[sunshaker]

 

 

And if photons pass through "every point" (they do) then no point is a focal point.

 

 

If photons pass through every point, Then every point is a focal point, Meaning billions of photons passing through every point at every moment.

 

 

 

Light does not "converge" on our planet. The light from the sun, for example, is diverging even as some of it falls on the Earth. And it falls on every part of the Earth. So it is not a focal point.

Earth is one large focal point. Every stars light/beam that as reached us converges on the planet earth.

 

 

 

Also, it would produce both matter and antimatter. The antimatter would rapidly annihilate with an equal amount of matter, producing photons. So no net change.

I am unsure of this, whether after collisions all matter/antimatter annihilate, Or are they scattered in different trajectories allowing matter to gravitate to matter.

So maybe there are many of these clumps of matter through out our universe which may account for some of this missing/dark matter.

[Strange]

If photons pass through every point, Then every point is a focal point, Meaning billions of photons passing through every point at every moment.

 

Then you have a very different interpretation of "focal point" than me. If there is the same amount of light everywhere, then it isn't being focussed.

 

I am unsure of this, whether after collisions all matter/antimatter annihilate, Or are they scattered in different trajectories allowing matter to gravitate to matter.

So maybe there are many of these clumps of matter through out our universe which may account for some of this missing/dark matter.

 

1. It doesn't make any difference because all you are doing is converting energy to mass (and maybe back to energy). This does not make any difference to the gravitational field.

 

2. If the antimatter somehow formed clumps, then they would be highly visible because, surrounded by matter, they would radiate large amounts of gamma rays. Observations have looked for such radiation (and are still looking) and nothing has yet been found.

[sunshaker]

 

 

2. If the antimatter somehow formed clumps, then they would be highly visible because, surrounded by matter, they would radiate large amounts of gamma rays. Observations have looked for such radiation (and are still looking) and nothing has yet been found.

There are many Gamma ray bursts from yet unknown sources, Perhaps some of these bursts are from these antimatter/matter clumps.

http://csep10.phys.utk.edu/astr162/lect/cosmology/gammaray.html

[Strange]

There are many Gamma ray bursts from yet unknown sources, Perhaps some of these bursts are from these antimatter/matter clumps.

http://csep10.phys.utk.edu/astr162/lect/cosmology/gammaray.html

 

They have the wrong energies.

 

And, anyway, it is irrelevant: converting photons to matter will not make any difference.

 

Also, the whole point about dark matter is that it does not interact electromagnetically. Therefore it cannot be photons or (normal) matter/antimatter.

Edited September 27, 2014 by Strange

[sunshaker]

 

 

2. If the antimatter somehow formed clumps, then they would be highly visible because, surrounded by matter, they would radiate large amounts of gamma rays. Observations have looked for such radiation (and are still looking) and nothing has yet been found.

 

With Earth perhaps being one of these focal/converge points, I thought there must be some evidence of electron/positrons matter/antimatter,

I remembered the Van allen belts, Which have two belts of electrons, Also the belts are believed to contain quite an amount of antimatter.

And radiate large amounts of gamma radiation.

 

 

 

n 2011, a study has confirmed earlier speculation that the Van Allen belt could confine antiparticles. The PAMELA experiment detected orders of magnitude higher levels of antiprotons than are expected from normal particle decays while passing through the SAA. This suggests the Van Allen belts confine a significant flux of antiprotons produced by the interaction of the Earth's upper atmosphere with cosmic rays.^[23] The energy of the antiprotons has been measured in the range from 60–750 MeV.

 

The formation of these belts are not yet completely understood, Perhaps Photon collisions should not be completely ignored. There is much about light that we still do not understand.

 

 

The Van Allen belts.

http://image.gsfc.nasa.gov/poetry/tour/AAvan.html

[swansont]

!

Moderator Note

Hijack, split from http://www.scienceforums.net/topic/85751-dark-matter/

[Strange]

Which have two belts of electrons, Also the belts are believed to contain quite an amount of antimatter.

 

This appears to be true (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Allen_radiation_belt#Antimatter_confinement)

 

But how is that relevant to dark matter?

[sunshaker]

 

This appears to be true (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Allen_radiation_belt#Antimatter_confinement)

 

But how is that relevant to dark matter?

I was thinking that if photon collisions do produce electrons, As every point would have billions of these photon collisions producing electrons/positrons.

Electrons have a tiny mass also there is the point that electrons can be in multiple places at once, Which would lead me to believe that every point in space would be full of electrons, Each exerting a gravitational force, Helping to slow down space expansion/holding galaxies together as does dark matter,

[Strange]

I was thinking that if photon collisions do produce electrons, As every point would have billions of these photon collisions producing electrons/positrons.

Electrons have a tiny mass also there is the point that electrons can be in multiple places at once, Which would lead me to believe that every point in space would be full of electrons, Each exerting a gravitational force, Helping to slow down space expansion/holding galaxies together as does dark matter,

 

1. It doesn't make any difference: the electrons have the same mass as the energy of the photons they were formed from.

 

2. Electrons interact with light; dark matter doesn't.

[sunshaker]

I thought this was interesting about ultra-relativistic electrons in a 3rd intermittent Van Allen belt.

http://newsroom.ucla.edu/releases/ucla-scientists-explain-the-formation-248209

 

 

extremely energetic particles that made up this ring, known as ultra-relativistic electrons, are driven by very different physics than typically observed Van Allen radiation belt particles.

 

 

 

"Their velocity is very close to the speed of light, and the energy of their motion is several times larger than the energy contained in their mass when they are at rest,"

 

 

"I believe that, with this study, we have uncovered the tip of the iceberg," Shprits said. "We still need to fully understand how these electrons are accelerated, where they originate

If electrons can be caused by photon collisions,

I would expect the created electrons to be scattered at close to the speed of light. Some perhaps becoming caught in the magnetic fields within the Van Allen belts (Electron solar storms)

 

Could they then lose energy and then dissipate into the two major electron belts, Until the next electron storm that will create another 3rd ring of ultra relativistic electrons.

[sunshaker]

Just a thought,

I was wondering that if all stars are emitting photons in all directions there would still be a beam the diameter of each star hitting our sun,

In effect adding energy to our sun (stars feeding stars),

I wondered about our suns 11 year solar cycle and Jupiters 11.8 year orbit, And thought maybe there is a connection,

If Jupiters orbit acts like a eclipse blocking out a large amount of these incoming photons from hitting our sun, In effect cooling our sun by a small margin,

Also adding heat to Jupiter, Maybe a factor to storms on Jupiter.

 

 

Most of our nearest stars are within 11 light years

http://www.universetoday.com/102920/what-is-the-closest-star/

1. Alpha Centauri – 4.2
2. Barnard’s Star – 5.9
3. Wolf 359 – 7.8
4. Lalande 21185 – 8.3
5. Sirius – 8.6
6. Luyten 726-8 – 8.7
7. Ross 154 – 9.7
8. Ross 248 – 10.3
9. Epsilon Eridani – 10.5
10. Lacaille 9352 – 10.7
11. Ross 128 – 10.9
12. EZ Aquarii – 11.3
13. Procyon – 11.4
14. 61 Cygni – 11.4
15. Struve 2398 – 11.5
16. Groombridge 34 – 11.6
17. Epison Indi – 11.8
18. Dx Carncri – 11.8
19. Tau Ceti – 11.9
20. GJ 106 – 11.9