Relative Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 (edited) Does an equal polarity of the same magnetic force, in magnetism, repel and not attract? Edited October 5, 2014 by Relative Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 Yes, a north pole repels a north pole, and a south pole repels a south pole. BUT. Things are a little more complicated that with electrical charges because you always get north and south together in a magnet. This means that if you suspend two bar magnets by threads around their middles, then same poles will repel (and different poles attract) until the magnets are aligned with different poles adjacent to each other. At which point the two magnets will attract each other. With no external forces, two magnets will always attract each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relative Posted October 5, 2014 Author Share Posted October 5, 2014 OK so your answers I have put into diagram form. Is this a correct diagram of magnet interaction? and what is the effect of the main body in this diagram,attract or repel? would the magnet be 50% positive polarity and 50 % negative polarity, where there is a central point of the the two meeting? ? The earth and the suns magnetic poles are this way around? Earth been the smaller circle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 (edited) OK so your answers I have put into diagram form. at.jpg Is this a correct diagram of magnet interaction? That is correct. (I have just realised one reason your diagrams are confusing: I would draw the arrows the other way to indicate attraction - but it doesn't really matter) and what is the effect of the main body in this diagram,attract or repel? You mean the bit in the middle of the magnet? I'm not sure how to answer that as it is the magnetic field outside the magnet that interacts. This is due to the whole magnet but is strongest at the ends. would the magnet be 50% positive polarity and 50 % negative polarity, where there is a central point of the the two meeting? Kind of. I suppose it will get progressively weaker towards the middle and the reverse polarity in the middle. The earth and the suns magnetic poles are this way around? I don't know. It changes over time. Both the Sun's and the Earth's magnetic fields change direction constantly. Sometimes they flip completely. I have no idea how they are aligned now. But note that the forces due to these magnetic fields are approximately zero. Probably far less than the force between a magnet on my fridge door and the one you have. Edited October 5, 2014 by Strange Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relative Posted October 5, 2014 Author Share Posted October 5, 2014 That is correct. (I have just realised one reason your diagrams are confusing: I would draw the arrows the other way to indicate attraction - but it doesn't really matter) You mean the bit in the middle of the magnet? I'm not sure how to answer that as it is the magnetic field outside the magnet that interacts. This is due to the whole magnet but is strongest at the ends. Kind of. I suppose it will get progressively weaker towards the middle and the reverse polarity in the middle. I don't know. It changes over time. Both the Sun's and the Earth's magnetic fields change direction constantly. Sometimes they flip completely. I have no idea how they are aligned now. But note that the forces due to these magnetic fields are approximately zero. Probably far less than the force between a magnet on my fridge door and the one you have. approximately zero. well yes. and isnt a magnet also a force equal to zero, you answered yes that the opposites attract in magnetism, so a minus and plus standard magnet the polarities are attracted to each other to the central point? ''You mean the bit in the middle of the magnet? I'm not sure how to answer that as it is the magnetic field outside the magnet that interacts. This is due to the whole magnet but is strongest at the ends.'' Yes in the middle of a magnet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 well yes. and isnt a magnet also a force equal to zero, you answered yes that the opposites attract in magnetism, so a minus and plus standard magnet the polarities are attracted to each other to the central point? Sorry, I'm not sure what you are asking. There isn't really a "minus" and a "plus" magnet. There is just a magnet which has a north pole and a south pole. (If you cut it in half, you get two magnets both with a north and a south pole. If you put those end-to-end you get a single magnet again.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relative Posted October 5, 2014 Author Share Posted October 5, 2014 (edited) Sorry, I'm not sure what you are asking. There isn't really a "minus" and a "plus" magnet. There is just a magnet which has a north pole and a south pole. (If you cut it in half, you get two magnets both with a north and a south pole. If you put those end-to-end you get a single magnet again.) Sorry I thought a magnet had a + and - polarity What I was asking is when a magnet is whole, A north polarity is attracted to a south polarity of another magnet , so a magnet as a singular, on itself , still has a North and South Polarity,so throughout the magnet is the north still attracted to the south, and the force direction inwards centripetal has in my diagram above? Also If we had a 10m magnet and stood it vertical south polarity on the ground, north in the air, would the north magnetic field push the magnet over towards the south magnetic pole of the planet? Edited October 5, 2014 by Relative Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuzzwood Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 You don't have to make the magnet that big; just use a compass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relative Posted October 5, 2014 Author Share Posted October 5, 2014 You don't have to make the magnet that big; just use a compass. I know lol, but much easier to consider big than small when considering what questions to ask. I suppose I am just confirming what I have learnt, and been correct in my understandings. I am avoiding speculations, and just refreshing on the knowledge. Magnets have a magnetic flow that always follows north and south of the earth in magnetic terms? Magnets allow the Earths magnetic energy to be harnessed through them and amplified? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 (edited) What I was asking is when a magnet is whole, A north polarity is attracted to a south polarity of another magnet , so a magnet as a singular, on itself , still has a North and South Polarity,so throughout the magnet is the north still attracted to the south, and the force direction inwards centripetal has in my diagram above? OK. "Are the north pole and south pole of a single magnet attracted to each other?" I suppose they are. I have never thought about that before. Also If we had a 10m magnet and stood it vertical south polarity on the ground, north in the air, would the north magnetic field push the magnet over towards the south magnetic pole of the planet Yes. Although I doubt there would be enough force to move the magnet. Unless the magnet was very light (or was balanced on a point). Magnets allow the Earths magnetic energy to be harnessed through them and amplified? No. Edited October 5, 2014 by Strange Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relative Posted October 5, 2014 Author Share Posted October 5, 2014 OK. "Are the north pole and south pole of a single magnet attracted to each other?" I suppose they are. I have never thought about that before. Yes. Although I doubt there would be enough force to move the magnet. Unless the magnet was very light (or was balanced on a point). No. ''OK. "Are the north pole and south pole of a single magnet attracted to each other?" I suppose they are. I have never thought about that before.'' I put fn at zero on my diagram, so would the force of a single magnet by its own action of forces have a central point that the force was Fn=0? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuzzwood Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 Is the magnet massless? If not, Fn cannot be at 0 and remain still, assuming gravity is working on it. Then again, what does any of that have to do with magnetism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relative Posted October 5, 2014 Author Share Posted October 5, 2014 (edited) Is the magnet massless? If not, Fn cannot be at 0 and remaed in still, assuming gravity is working on it. Then again, what does any of that have to do with magnetism? Probably my definition of fn , but still on subject, what I was trying to say is that the N is attracted to its S in a singular ,a few posts up, the force in the center of the magnet is equal to zero like the fn you use on the ground, north polarity equal to the south polarity with inwards force in itself? Edited October 5, 2014 by Relative Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 There will be a maximum force of attraction between the ends of the magnets. There will be a little less force of attraction a little distance from the end. There will, I suppose, be zero force between their middles. But that is all irrelevant because the force acts on the whole solid magnet. So the whole of one magnet is attracted to the whole of the other magnet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relative Posted October 5, 2014 Author Share Posted October 5, 2014 There will be a maximum force of attraction between the ends of the magnets. There will be a little less force of attraction a little distance from the end. There will, I suppose, be zero force between their middles. But that is all irrelevant because the force acts on the whole solid magnet. So the whole of one magnet is attracted to the whole of the other magnet. Do you mean like the sides of the magnet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted October 5, 2014 Share Posted October 5, 2014 Do you mean like the sides of the magnet? Just: "the whole magnet". The magnet is solid. Any force on it will act on the whole magnet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relative Posted October 11, 2014 Author Share Posted October 11, 2014 electromagnetism even at a low energy state can rotate another body, according to Faraday and the Lorentz force. ? This angular velocity my magnetic interaction? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 This has nothing to do with Lorentz force as there are no charges involved. Calculating the force between two magnets is very complicated because (unlike gravity or the force between two charges) it cannot be treated as the force between two points. The N pole of one magnet is repelled strongly by the other N pole but every point on the magnet is more or less strong attracted or repelled by every point on the other magnet. However, the overall effect in the case of, say, two bar magnets put at a random angle to one another is they will rotate until they are aligned N----S S----N And then they will be attracted to one another and snap together. You could try this yourself with two magnets on a frictionless surface (floating on water or hanging from threads, for example). Note that the force between the two needs to be strong enough to overcome friction or anything else keeping the magnets apart. The force between them decreases with distance much more rapidly than the force of gravity or the force between two charges. So you if you move the magnets a little distance apart there will not be enough force to move them. angular velocity my magnetic interaction? This sentence string of words makes no sense. It is not even a sentence. So I don't know if I have answered your question. In case you are still banging on about the Sun and the Earth.... The force at that distance is too small to have any effect. Also, the Earth is roughly like a bar magnet with a N and S pole while the Sun's is much more complex and changeable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relative Posted October 11, 2014 Author Share Posted October 11, 2014 This has nothing to do with Lorentz force as there are no charges involved. Calculating the force between two magnets is very complicated because (unlike gravity or the force between two charges) it cannot be treated as the force between two points. The N pole of one magnet is repelled strongly by the other N pole but every point on the magnet is more or less strong attracted or repelled by every point on the other magnet. However, the overall effect in the case of, say, two bar magnets put at a random angle to one another is they will rotate until they are aligned N----S S----N And then they will be attracted to one another and snap together. You could try this yourself with two magnets on a frictionless surface (floating on water or hanging from threads, for example). Note that the force between the two needs to be strong enough to overcome friction or anything else keeping the magnets apart. The force between them decreases with distance much more rapidly than the force of gravity or the force between two charges. So you if you move the magnets a little distance apart there will not be enough force to move them. This sentence string of words makes no sense. It is not even a sentence. So I don't know if I have answered your question. In case you are still banging on about the Sun and the Earth.... The force at that distance is too small to have any effect. Also, the Earth is roughly like a bar magnet with a N and S pole while the Sun's is much more complex and changeable. Sorry in the typo, my was by. ''. For any produced force there will be an opposite reactive force. In the case of the magnetic field, the reactive force may be obscure, but it must be accounted for.'' You admit that magnets will rotate , but friction, will stop the magnet, from having a connection force, if spread to far apart, space has no friction, and yes I am still going on about the lorentz etc, I have not heard a single argument that really denies the idea, A north and south polarity at y vector horizontally or angled to an opposing polarity of either, will give axle tilt if offset to either, stronger of a force.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 and yes I am still going on about the lorentz etc, I have not heard a single argument that really denies the idea, There is no charge in your diagram. Therefore there is no Lorentz force. F = q(E + v X B) If q = 0 then F = 0. A north and south polarity at y vector horizontally or angled to an opposing polarity of either, will give axle tilt if offset to either, stronger of a force.? Swap magnet banana frisson, quantitative thing is maybe wobble ship. (In other words, I have no idea what your random string of words is supposed to mean.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relative Posted October 11, 2014 Author Share Posted October 11, 2014 (edited) There is no charge in your diagram. Therefore there is no Lorentz force. F = q(E + v X B) If q = 0 then F = 0. Swap magnet banana frisson, quantitative thing is maybe wobble ship. (In other words, I have no idea what your random string of words is supposed to mean.) I did have the other formula at first , forgive the spelling my mind gone blank, Colons law Alternate titles: Coulomb interaction; Coulombic force; electric force; electrostatic force Coulomb force, also called electrostatic force or Coulomb interaction, attraction or repulsion of particles or objects because of their electric charge Edited October 11, 2014 by Relative Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 I did have the other formula at first , forgive the spelling my mind gone blank, Colons law Alternate titles: Coulomb interaction; Coulombic force; electric force; electrostatic force Coulomb force, also called electrostatic force or Coulomb interaction, attraction or repulsion of particles or objects because of their electric charge Better. But you still have no charge in your diagram so even that is irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relative Posted October 11, 2014 Author Share Posted October 11, 2014 Better. But you still have no charge in your diagram so even that is irrelevant. I can not possibly know everything, that is why I am here, at least you understand the concept, can I ask to which diagram you are referring to ? and what exactly do you mean by no charge in my diagram? Force , about represents all in basic formula structure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted October 11, 2014 Share Posted October 11, 2014 I can not possibly know everything, that is why I am here, at least you understand the concept, can I ask to which diagram you are referring to ? The one your posted today (post 17). and what exactly do you mean by no charge in my diagram? You show two magnets. You do not show any charges. Force , about represents all in basic formula structure. Banana, wibble frogmarch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relative Posted October 11, 2014 Author Share Posted October 11, 2014 The one your posted today (post 17). You show two magnets. You do not show any charges. Banana, wibble frogmarch. ''If an electric force of one unit (one dyne) arises between two equal electric charges one centimetre apart in a vacuum, the amount of each charge is one electrostatic unit, esu, or statcoulomb. '' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts