Lost interest in working in science

[Penelope]

Hi,

 

I'm a 4th year phd student and I've found that I have increasingly lost interest in working in science. Things are going relatively well for me, I have a great relationship with my advisor who is happy with me, I have published a couple of papers (just recently even got some coverage in the news) and I have been offered a postdoc position. My personal and family life is also satisfactory, no complaints there. My problem is that I have lost interest in doing scientific research, and so am not sure whether I should continue after my phD. I have seen other people talking about lack of motivation online, but usually they complain about frustration with their project or too much benchwork, and I don't think that is my case. I used to believe that publishing papers is a good way to contribute to the increase of knowledge in society, and now for various reasons, I am very skeptical of this. I am also sort of demotivated by the prevalent focus on competitively publishing papers, together with what I see as a relative lack of focus on learning, and seeking knowledge and truth. This has been like this for atleast a couple of years, and is becoming clearer to me as I became less overwhelmed with the novelty of starting a phd. I have considered continuing in research anyway, but somehow this feels sort of dishonest to me. Also my lack of motivation makes me spend more time reading about other topics than on reading and thinking about my science work. On the other hand, maybe this is a sort of emotional phase, or just some kind of general desmotivation that I would re-experience if a work in another sector? I have told my advisor some time ago that I am not sure what I want to do after my phd, and he was very responsive and asked me if there was anything that I could change so to regain my motivation, maybe do more experimental work, or more reading, give classes, go to conferences, etc, or if I needed more time with my family, or more autonomy or personal space, etc. But I do not see any of these things as my problem. Has this happened to anybody else out there? I am not sure what I should do, so any comments or suggestions would be nice. Thanks

 

[ajb]

It is normal to have periods of getting fed up during a PhD. I think it is normal in life generally. You will have to decide if you take the offered postdoc or not. What I will say is that postdoc positions are not so easy to get. If you turn this one down you may not get another offer later.

 

Anyway, if you don't want to stay in science then that is up to you. Fair enough. But you will have to think about what to do instead.

 

By the way, what field do you work in?

[Willie71]

I work in mental health, but cannot diagnose online. Some things to explore with someone you trust, and who is qualified is to address burnout, or if you might be experiencing the start of depression (not diagnosing here, just asking about possibilities.) it might be as simple as boredom and disillusionment.

[davidivad]

you are bored because you haven't blown something up.

science is supposed to be fun right?

perhaps you have taken the fun out of science for yourself in an attempt at accuracy?

yep, x marks the spot... blow something up the best way you like.

[elfmotat]

you are bored because you haven't blown something up.

science is supposed to be fun right?

perhaps you have taken the fun out of science for yourself in an attempt at accuracy?

yep, x marks the spot... blow something up the best way you like.

 

That's probably the worst career advice I've ever encountered.

[davidivad]

ha!

i was speaking figuratively of course.

i will explain better next time.

Edited November 7, 2014 by davidivad

[mississippichem]

you are bored because you haven't blown something up.

science is supposed to be fun right?

perhaps you have taken the fun out of science for yourself in an attempt at accuracy?

yep, x marks the spot... blow something up the best way you like.

Blowing stuff up is in my job description. Even that can get old sometimes.

 

I can't tell you how many times I've been over joyed to stop blowing things up and go do a boring titration, calculation or cure study (cure study: literally watching paint dry)!

[Bill Angel]

You have not mentioned what outside interests you might have. To cite a famous example, Einstein played the violin. I personally believe that photography and hiking are good methods for mental rejuvination. Also exercising in a gym.

You might also feel happier pursuing a career in science writing than in grinding out research papers, as it is apparent from your post that you have the ability of expressing yourself effectively in the English language and also of holding the reader's interest.

[CharonY]

Everyone is in a funk every now and then. However, you should be aware that there will be some shifts once once you get towards a proper academic position (i.e. TT). Yet, if you are not terribly interested in what you are doing it will be quite painful as, a) the path to TT is very uncertain and stressfull and b) can take quite a long while with a lot of financial insecurity.

Even after landing an academic job you will often take your work home with you, which is alright if you love what you are doing, but adds to stress if you do not.

 

It would be a good time to evaluate what you want from life (e.g. work life vs private life balance, family, location etc.) and see which careers would provide you with what you want.While it is not universally true, some industrial jobs allow you to leave your job at work. Even if you are not terribly interested in it (but are decently competent) you could balance that part off with a fulfilling private life. An academic job tends to stay with you the whole time although in theory you could settle down once you achieve tenure. However, you are typically in your 40s (and in some countries even older) and by then you probably do not know how to do things differently anymore....

 

To summarize, the correct mindset is to think about what you want from live. What do you want to have and do in the next 5 years, ten years, twenty years? And go from there.

[michel123456]

 

Hi,

 

I'm a 4th year phd student and I've found that I have increasingly lost interest in working in science. Things are going relatively well for me, I have a great relationship with my advisor who is happy with me, I have published a couple of papers (just recently even got some coverage in the news) and I have been offered a postdoc position. My personal and family life is also satisfactory, no complaints there. My problem is that I have lost interest in doing scientific research, and so am not sure whether I should continue after my phD. I have seen other people talking about lack of motivation online, but usually they complain about frustration with their project or too much benchwork, and I don't think that is my case. I used to believe that publishing papers is a good way to contribute to the increase of knowledge in society, and now for various reasons, I am very skeptical of this. I am also sort of demotivated by the prevalent focus on competitively publishing papers, together with what I see as a relative lack of focus on learning, and seeking knowledge and truth. This has been like this for atleast a couple of years, and is becoming clearer to me as I became less overwhelmed with the novelty of starting a phd. I have considered continuing in research anyway, but somehow this feels sort of dishonest to me. Also my lack of motivation makes me spend more time reading about other topics than on reading and thinking about my science work. On the other hand, maybe this is a sort of emotional phase, or just some kind of general desmotivation that I would re-experience if a work in another sector? I have told my advisor some time ago that I am not sure what I want to do after my phd, and he was very responsive and asked me if there was anything that I could change so to regain my motivation, maybe do more experimental work, or more reading, give classes, go to conferences, etc, or if I needed more time with my family, or more autonomy or personal space, etc. But I do not see any of these things as my problem. Has this happened to anybody else out there? I am not sure what I should do, so any comments or suggestions would be nice. Thanks

 

 

 

From your description it looks to me you are doing great. Maybe you need a new challenge."more experimental work, or more reading, give classes, go to conferences" would not be my personal dream but that's up to you.

My goal was always to escape from studies and engage the real world with a good diploma. I have absolutely no respect (sorry for that) for the people who remain a life long in the academics cocoon no matter how intelligent they are.

 

My simple life advice is the same I say to everyone (at the risk of being gnagna):

Never look back. Like an mountaineer, always proceed.

 

Also it is interesting to note that you have the chance to choose what you will do next. The vast majority of human kind does not have that chance, did not and never will You are one of the few. And always keep in mind that some other people will hate you for that.

Edited November 8, 2014 by michel123456

[timo]

Not sure about the situation in the US (where judging from "4th year PhD student" I assume you are located at). But from my experience (Germany): It is perfectly normal for PhD students to realize they do not want to follow the university research path at some point. It does feel weird at first, because almost all people you know do not know any other life than that - and that also includes your advisor, for example. But as a matter of fact, all the top people in my undergrad, masters and PhD peer group left academia (top people being measured by academic performance). And none of them regretted it.

 

There is a lot that could be said about weirdness/wrongs of academia, the ridiculous trend to publish papers for the sake of getting a paper published being only one of them. But such weirdness exists in every place, so that should not be what turns you off (I have enough stories from my current workplace that people would not believe, like the expert for the analysis of a 20 million Euro research project not being able to attend the meetings because being an undergrad he had to attend lectures ...). My recommendation would be to realize that there is a huge range of interesting opportunities of what one can do in life, and that a university career is only one of them. So open up your mind what you find interesting. And if you do not find anything better you can still go for the post-doc - which should be an interesting one, not merely one you happened to get offered.

[Penelope]

Thanks to everyone for their replies, I have thought about this and feel I have made some progress on this issue. I also read about burnout and depression as someone suggested and listened to some inspiring talks by Srikumar Rao on the issue of happiness at work. Although I think I have found out little ways that can make my work feel more meaningful and enjoyable, unfortunately I still am not sure what I should do. (Maybe this is the wrong way of thinking about this, maybe there is nothing I 'should' do). It seems that most people that work in science either have personal ambitions of scientific success, and/or are driven by a sort of idealism about scientific thought and progress, as if science was an ideology that needed supporters, advocates and so on. I do not feel comfortable with these roles (I do not, as people say often, ´love´ science) and as far as personal ambitions go, they would probably be better served in other areas. On the other hand, I do not feel it would be responsible for me to refuse a job option when I need the economic support and do not have any other solid options. I guess I will just inform myself of my options, and wait and see if at some point I see some opportunity.

[studiot]

Hi, Penelope, you haven't said what you field is (or I missed it) so it's difficult to offer specific thoughts.

 

But hey, the world is your oyster, there are so many organisations, apart from straight academe, who would be glad to have you.

 

If later in life you felt like returning there you could do so, some of my best lecturers at University had spent long stints in industry and some of the most unintelligible (though no doubt brilliant) had never been outside the classroom.

 

California, huh, here are a few ideas

 

Become a consultant to the film industry.

Work for a dolphinarium

Join Greenpeace

.Join............

 

[davidivad]

Thanks to everyone for their replies, I have thought about this and feel I have made some progress on this issue. I also read about burnout and depression as someone suggested and listened to some inspiring talks by Srikumar Rao on the issue of happiness at work. Although I think I have found out little ways that can make my work feel more meaningful and enjoyable, unfortunately I still am not sure what I should do. (Maybe this is the wrong way of thinking about this, maybe there is nothing I 'should' do). It seems that most people that work in science either have personal ambitions of scientific success, and/or are driven by a sort of idealism about scientific thought and progress, as if science was an ideology that needed supporters, advocates and so on. I do not feel comfortable with these roles (I do not, as people say often, ´love´ science) and as far as personal ambitions go, they would probably be better served in other areas. On the other hand, I do not feel it would be responsible for me to refuse a job option when I need the economic support and do not have any other solid options. I guess I will just inform myself of my options, and wait and see if at some point I see some opportunity.

 

i see what you ae talking about now...

do you consider yourself ethical?

are you left with a distaste in your mouth about current process handling in the science community?

it sounds as if you are at odds with the current structure of the science community.

if i am coming from the wrong direction, please forgive my silliness.

you are doing what is called "presenting"

like the animals of the forest floor, we present ourselves: like a deer nodding its head to the group to signal danger.

you must get this off your chest by giving away the whole thing (not just part).

tell me why you dislike the process in more detail...

[CharonY]

 

(Maybe this is the wrong way of thinking about this, maybe there is nothing I 'should' do). It seems that most people that work in science either have personal ambitions of scientific success, and/or are driven by a sort of idealism about scientific thought and progress, as if science was an ideology that needed supporters, advocates and so on. I do not feel comfortable with these roles (I do not, as people say often, ´love´ science) and as far as personal ambitions go, they would probably be better served in other areas.

 

There are many reasons why people pursue academic careers. Some because they love teaching, others (me included) because it is pretty much the only job where you can work to satisfy your curiosity about the world and still get paid for it. But what is true that academia is not a 9-5 job where you can do your job and just be satisfied by it. You have to be driven to a point to pursue a career that is risky (low success rate) less monetary rewarding than alternatives and eating much more of your time and brainpower than your other jobs.

If that does not sound attractive to you, you are well advised to look for other jobs,

 

 

On the other hand, I do not feel it would be responsible for me to refuse a job option when I need the economic support and do not have any other solid options. I guess I will just inform myself of my options, and wait and see if at some point I see some opportunity.

 

This is a good plan, I will add that you should try to start networking as at that level a good network has a much higher chance to score a rewarding career than waiting for an opportunity to present itself. Remember, a postdoc is not a career, it is a waiting position that you have to utilize to get one.

[davidivad]

 

There are many reasons why people pursue academic careers. Some because they love teaching, others (me included) because it is pretty much the only job where you can work to satisfy your curiosity about the world and still get paid for it. But what is true that academia is not a 9-5 job where you can do your job and just be satisfied by it. You have to be driven to a point to pursue a career that is risky (low success rate) less monetary rewarding than alternatives and eating much more of your time and brainpower than your other jobs.

If that does not sound attractive to you, you are well advised to look for other jobs.

 

this is such a good point charony.

it is proof that someone successful in thier field recognizes that successful people have learned to stay in thier uncomfortable zone.

this is a common thread among successful people.

waiting for a reward is a high level process that, in my opinion, is a sign of higher intelligence.

it means you have a good functioning management system in place.

this speaks volumes on the subject at hand.

[Bill Angel]

There is another career option you might consider, assuming that you stay the course in getting a PhD: scientific support work for the US Government. I don't mean working as a staff scientist at a national laboratory, but employment with agencies who need people to evaluate the possible usefulness of other's scientific work in assisting that agency in fulfilling its mission. The two agencies that I have particularly in mind are the National Security Agency (NSA) and the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA).