Why does God punish the innocent and innocuous?

[MonDie]

I think it was mentioned earlier, that that requires the assumption that you are only your conscious self and that your subconscious behavior is irrelevant of you -- a kind of quasi-virtual perspective of dualism. However, I think it is generally agreed that you are the entirety of yourself, including your body as well, but not including the environment around you. So with that said, I think I finally see what you're suggesting -- that subconscious decisions completely override conscious ones and thus yourself. I would like to provide the counter-argument that you are actually making those decisions with who you are and the processes and deliberations that you, as a person, choose to undergo in order to find conclusion, and that your conscious self is like your voice, in that you initiate speech before you hear. In this case, your choice is still dependent on who you are and what you think is a good way. It is interesting that meditation is sometimes thought of a way learn to understand yourself from a level deeper than consciousness (i.e. similar to understanding that you initiate your speech and then you hear it). As a consequence of the argument of self-ability, I think the feeling of doing something deliberately and the conscious desire to do something is indicative of free-will.

 

What reason have you for believing in free-will? We seem to directly experience intentionality, but the percieved time of intent and time of action are adjusted after the fact in relation to the action's effects.

I need to review this stuff.

Edited January 5, 2015 by MonDie

[SiameseSam]

It makes me cringe when I see innocent people suffer.

Would a caring God partake of such injustice?

What conclusion does this lead us to?

 

Please advise.

The Bible doesnt say God punishes the innocent. It says quite the opposite.

 

Ezekiel 18:20

 

The one who sins is the one who will die. The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child. The righteousness of the righteous will be credited to them, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against them.

 

http://biblehub.com/ezekiel/18-20.htm

[Strange]

The Bible doesnt say God punishes the innocent.

 

So who does cause the suffering of innocent people? And why is god helpless to do anything about it?

[John Cuthber]

The Bible doesnt say God punishes the innocent. It says quite the opposite.

 

Ezekiel 18:20

 

http://biblehub.com/ezekiel/18-20.htm

Actually, as is quite often the case with the Bible, it says both.

Deuteronomy 5:9 - Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God [am] a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth [generation]

[iNow]

Btw... Similar quote (almost word for word) to John's in Exodus 20:5-6: "I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me."

 

Also, if the mom is sinful, surely her children must perish:

 

"Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.And I will kill her children with death." Revelation 2:22-23

 

"And I will not have mercy upon her children; for they be the children of whoredoms." Hosea 2:4

 

 

OF COURSE god doesn't punish the innocent, though. Everyone is born sinful so NOBODY is innocent. Ha! It's perfect logic. Duh! Checkmate, atheists!

[John Cuthber]

[Willie71]

Btw... Similar quote (almost word for word) to John's in Exodus 20:5-6: "I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the parents to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me."Also, if the mom is sinful, surely her children must perish:"Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.And I will kill her children with death." Revelation 2:22-23"And I will not have mercy upon her children; for they be the children of whoredoms." Hosea 2:4OF COURSE god doesn't punish the innocent, though. Everyone is born sinful so NOBODY is innocent. Ha! It's perfect logic. Duh! Checkmate, atheists!

 

Thank you for saving me the hassle. I always find it tiresome to reply to the faithful who believe in the peaceful truth in their infallible book that they have not actually read, nor do they realize that it says what people who have read it say.

[iNow]

There were so many more passages like that I could have cited, too.

[Delta1212]

 

So who does cause the suffering of innocent people? And why is god helpless to do anything about it?

In fairness, that's a false dichotomy. It doesn't come down to either "God is punishing the innocent" or "God is helpless to stop their suffering." God could also be perfectly capable of ending the suffering and simply choose not to, for example.

[Strange]

In fairness, that's a false dichotomy. It doesn't come down to either "God is punishing the innocent" or "God is helpless to stop their suffering." God could also be perfectly capable of ending the suffering and simply choose not to, for example.

 

He's too busy.

He hasn't noticed.

He has forgotten us.

He doesn't care.

He is still celebrating Genesis.

He has a really bad hangover.

He thinks it is someone else's responsibility.

He is sulking.

He is depressed.

He hasn't been well.

He is dead.

[iNow]

It strikes against the consistent and core assumption that god is omniscient, omnipotent, and omnibenevolent.