What constitutes a good education?

[physica]

After moving around being involved in 3 different universities (maybe a 4th next year) I come to realise that I can't really tell the difference between grads from different universities. Is this just me having terrible perception or have others found this? The suicide of one of the professors in my hospital got me thinking. He killed himself because he stated that the university was obsessed with grant money not science and that he'd been bullied via technicalities (link to news article below). One of the other professors at Imperial just has computers in his lab and makes all his juniors to literature reviews. Although he hasn't produced a single original piece of work in years the college loves him as he bashes out loads of publications every year at a very low cost.

 

This has got me thinking, I've worked round the clock to have a chance at world leading universities in London. However, do these universities provide better education or are they just obsessed and efficient at hitting the technicalities to bump but the world rankings. I appreciate that bigger universities have more money but I'm retraining in physics with the aim to get onto a theoretical physics msc next year. From my understanding theoretical physics isn't wildly expensive. Would it be better for me to go for a university that's not competing in the top 10 world rankings? I'd prefer to actually do physics and appear like I haven't achieved much to outsiders than appear like a high flyer but simply hit technicalities behind the scenes.

 

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2014/12/01/imperial-college-london-investigates-role-pressure-death-academic

[ajb]

Unless you are speaking of Oxford and Cambridge, I do not think it matters so much where you do your Masters and PhD. The universities at London are well-known for mathematics and theoretical physics. They would be good places to go as there is some concentration of talent.

[Ophiolite]

I don't know how it is in academia, but the fact that you have already "sampled" three universities and do not yet have your degree would set off warning bells in the business world.

[studiot]

Students (like everyone else) suffer a wide range of personal issues, but one of their biggest problems is the tendency to think they are unique and that whatever it is has never happened to anyone else.

This is an observation, not a criticism, and I think it is due to youthful lack of general experience of the world.

I originally started the wrong course at the wrong university due to this and the experience certainly affected my career.

 

My brother in law studied Electronic Engineering at Liverpool, where all technical subjects are highly mathematical and theoretical.

He came out well and went straight into a large multinational where he thrived.

 

Another friend studied Physics at Liverpool, but left after year 1 because he could not hack the mathematics.

He later completed a London External in Physics at Portsmouth, where they are much more hands on than theoretical.

He also left and joined a large multinational, where he also thrived.

 

I would suggest that at least part of your question is best dealt with by PM.

Edited December 10, 2014 by studiot

[physica]

I don't know how it is in academia, but the fact that you have already "sampled" three universities and do not yet have your degree would set off warning bells in the business world.

I haven't failed a single course I've been on or dropped out. Family pressured me into NHS (most probably because it was safe when the recession kicked in) after 5 years (with graduation) I realised I didn't like the medical scene. I've managed to skip the first year of physics and at the end of this year will graduate in physics studying full time whilst working in the emergency department. Only the last part of my education has been self funded and I've paid that through my salary as opposed to a government grant so I have zero student debt at the age of 25. I'll be shocked if people look at my CV and are concerned.

 

 

Unless you are speaking of Oxford and Cambridge, I do not think it matters so much where you do your Masters and PhD. The universities at London are well-known for mathematics and theoretical physics. They would be good places to go as there is some concentration of talent.

Thank you for this insight. I will keep this in mind and look at which ones seem the most friendly.

 

 

Students (like everyone else) suffer a wide range of personal issues, but one of their biggest problems is the tendency to think they are unique and that whatever it is has never happened to anyone else.

This is an observation, not a criticism, and I think it is due to youthful lack of general experience of the world.

I originally started the wrong course at the wrong university due to this and the experience certainly affected my career.

I actually agree with this. I've seen this many times with students. I don't think universities help when they keep massaging the egos of their students. However, this trait is always harder to see in yourself. Although I might be perceptive of others there is a very high chance that I'm not very perceptive about myself. We will say what it is it is criticism but don't get the impression that I've taken offence. I'm not going to go very far in life if I don't listen to criticism. So what I'm getting from you is that I haven't proved myself to be special at all so I should expect to go through the technicalities like everyone else no matter where I end up going. Thank you as always studiot, I remember you helping me out with some of my maths problems last year.

 

This also leads to another question. Incase academia isn't for me or I fail to get onto a phd is a msc in theoretical physics much use in industry?

Edited December 10, 2014 by physica

[studiot]

 

So what I'm getting from you is that I haven't proved myself to be special at all so I should expect to go through the technicalities like everyone else no matter where I end up going.

 

Not quite.

 

I'm suggesting that there is a wealth of previous human experience out there and offering some, because it's probably happened before more than once.

 

 

This also leads to another question. Incase academia isn't for me or I fail to get onto a phd is a msc in theoretical physics much use in industry?

 

 

Don't undervalue theoretical physics, the ability to think logically is valued in all sorts of fields, besides theoretical physics.

 

One of my contemporaries (now a millionaire) was told when he applied to a firm of accounts to start accountancy training

 

"We prefer entrants with a technical background such as yours, we find they make better high level professionals"

[Ophiolite]

I haven't failed a single course I've been on or dropped out. Family pressured me into NHS (most probably because it was safe when the recession kicked in) after 5 years (with graduation) I realised I didn't like the medical scene. I've managed to skip the first year of physics and at the end of this year will graduate in physics studying full time whilst working in the emergency department. Only the last part of my education has been self funded and I've paid that through my salary as opposed to a government grant so I have zero student debt at the age of 25. I'll be shocked if people look at my CV and are concerned.

You have to keep in mind that most positions receive many more applicants than there are openings for. Employers are looking for reasons not to hire just as much - and initially more - than they are looking for reasons to hire. Frequent changes are viewed negatively by most employers in most situations. Just make sure you convey the changes positively in the CV. Once you get to interview stage it should not be a problem.

[CharonY]

On the undergrad level the university (above a minimum threshold) does not matter much. Learning is and should be much more self-driven. At grad levels, the availability of of faculty and research money could start to limit what type of projects you will be able to do. In pure teaching unis it is possible that you can only do written thesis for a MSc, which is less ideal if you want to have at least some technical expertise.

 

As such, I would make my choices pretty much independent on ratings. For graduate degrees I would start looking at individual faculty or research topics. Ophiolite provides important advice. People look through CVs (business as well as academia, at least on the faculty level) to search for red flags rather than highlights. Do not just put in that you have attended various unis and delayed your degree, but add a bit that explains your choices (and why this experience makes you a better candidate than others with more streamlined CVs). Grades tend to be a bit of a non-issue.

 

As an additional note, typically the struggles of faculty and admins within universities typically does not impact undergrads at all and graduates only slightly (aside from budget issues that typically faculty have to resolve). So as a student I would not let that impact my decision, either.

Edited December 10, 2014 by CharonY