Commander Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 How much is the Energy emitted by Sun ? Where does it go and what form it transforms itself - Matter or Energy Storage ? As of this moment Virginia US has around -2 Deg C while New Delhi has around 9 Deg C and Kashmir around - 9 Deg C and Bangalore has 20 Deg C ! We all know how much Energy it takes to Air Condition a Small area and Imagine what an amount of Variation in Energy and Temperature is involved in lifting the Temperatures or lowering it over such vast areas. No MAN is an ISLAND and similarly no Particle, Atom , Molecule , Body , City, Planet , Star System , Galaxy or Universe is so, in such a way that its Properties are not determined by the Rest of the Environment. Therefore the fact that Sun is Emitting so much Energy and Earth is absorbing part of it while emitting out itself certain energy in the process of the Sun and Earth everything else connected Hurtling through Space at an unknown Velocity in an unknown direction makes it almost impossible for us to treat any of these Entities as a SYSTEM and work out Equations within itself and decide on factors such as Entropy etc. We must take into consideration Everything Else too !! Therefore Assuming it to be a System talking about Global Warming etc I am not convinced about as we need to evaluate how much Energy is received by Earth, How much is dissipated out of it and what is the Effect of its Speed of travel through Space in this context !!! How much ?
swansont Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 How much is the Energy emitted by Sun ? About 384 yottwatts (3.8 x 10^26) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun Total energy would be the power integrated over time. An approximation would be that power multiplied by the age of the sun.
imatfaal Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 About 384 yottwatts (3.8 x 10^26) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun Total energy would be the power integrated over time. An approximation would be that power multiplied by the age of the sun. I do like the sound of the word yottwatts - but I think yottawatts is more usual
Strange Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 Therefore the fact that Sun is Emitting so much Energy and Earth is absorbing part of it while emitting out itself certain energy in the process of the Sun and Earth everything else connected Hurtling through Space at an unknown Velocity in an unknown direction makes it almost impossible for us to treat any of these Entities as a SYSTEM and work out Equations within itself and decide on factors such as Entropy etc. We must take into consideration Everything Else too !! It seems very unlikely that even our nearest star, Alpha Centauri, makes any significant contribution to the thermodynamics of the Earth-Sun system. Never mind galaxies which are billions of light years away. So the idea that we "must take into consideration Everything Else too" is clearly wrong. The only way science and technology can make progress is by knowing what information is important and what can be ignored. Therefore Assuming it to be a System talking about Global Warming etc I am not convinced about as we need to evaluate how much Energy is received by Earth, How much is dissipated out of it and what is the Effect of its Speed of travel through Space in this context !!! Why would speed through space be relevant to global warming? (Although, obviously, the Earth's changing position with respect to the Sun may be.) Also, speed relative to what?
Sensei Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 How much is the Energy emitted by Sun ? See this thread. I explained fusion process in the Sun very detail way: http://www.scienceforums.net/topic/85656-solar-fusion-neutrinos-and-age-of-solar-system/ Where does it go and what form it transforms itself - Matter or Energy Storage ? f.e. liquid water (that's majority of Earth's surface) is transforming to gaseous state. It takes energy to do so. CO2 + energy -> C + O2, vegetables are consuming carbon dioxide and energy, and carbon is used to build their cells, while Oxygen is released to atmosphere. But majority of energy stored at day, is simply released during night.
studiot Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 (edited) I really don't know what this thread is about, but would like to pitch in with a couple of observations, apologies if they are irrelevant. Firstly it doesn't matter much to us how much the Sun puts out since most of that flows the other way. What matters to us is how much we receive. And that bring me to my second point that picks up on some of your comments. What we do receive is very unevenly distributed over the planet's surface. Significant natural processes occur transporting huge quantities energy about the surface of the planet. Most of this transport is actually carried by mass in the two fluid environments. Understanding and allowing for this transport is vital to any discussion of climate and climate trends, but is sadly all too often forgotten or ignored in discussions. Edited January 2, 2015 by studiot
Commander Posted January 2, 2015 Author Posted January 2, 2015 About 384 yottwatts (3.8 x 10^26) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun Total energy would be the power integrated over time. An approximation would be that power multiplied by the age of the sun. Hi Swansont, Thanks. Yes it is interesting to study everything about the Sun. While Sun's Surface temp is reported to be around 5800 K it says that the Temp of the Corona region is much higher and can reach around 20 Million K. This might be because of a Stream of Particles or Highly excited/burning Stuff revolving around the Sun in such a high Speed just enough to keep in Orbit around the sun but not escape from its gravitational Pull like some other more excited Particles/Energy Matter. The core of the Sun has 15.7 Million K Temperature. While only a Fraction of the Energy emitted from the Sun is held within the Solar System the burnt out Energy escapes into Space travelling its Light Years just like Light from other Stars. Much is needed to explain and charter the paths of this energy. Regards I really don't know what this thread is about, but would like to pitch in with a couple of observations, apologies if they are irrelevant. Firstly it doesn't matter much to us how much the Sun puts out since most of that flows the other way. What matters to us is how much we receive. And that bring me to my second point that picks up on some of your comments. What we do receive is very unevenly distributed over the planet's surface. Significant natural processes occur transporting huge quantities energy about the surface of the planet. Most of this transport is actually carried by mass in the two fluid environments. Understanding and allowing for this transport is vital to any discussion of climate and climate trends, but is sadly all too often forgotten or ignored in discussions. Hi Studiot, Thanks. Yes, we are constantly receiving an abundant Solar Energy/Radiation on our Planet Earth ! While we can discuss about intra Earth Energy Pattern as one topic we are pondering over the overall Systemic changes as well. Considering that the Global Warming has much to do with the Temperature of Earth and its Variations we try to envisage what energy might get added and lost. As the whole of Solar System is hurtling along in its path with our Earth orbiting around the Sun while being carted along the Solar System Carrying along together the Moon [which catches up orbiting around the Earth while trying to fall towards the Earth as per Gravity Pull] and its atmosphere as well as Earth's Own Atmosphere and Surface Water etc, I think EARTH might lose or Gain Matter as well as Energy during its Journey [same goes to other Bodies as well] Albeit the change might be untraceable and in a Stable state of coordinated Motion it might be minimal with Steady Gravitational Fields and State of the Space traveled through.
studiot Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 (edited) The Moon's relationship to the Earth is not stable. American measurements of the last thre decades or so show that it is receding at 33 mm per year. https://solarsystem.nasa.gov/planets/profile.cfm?Object=Moon&Display=FAQ#q17 Edited January 2, 2015 by studiot
Sensei Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 Firstly it doesn't matter much to us how much the Sun puts out since most of that flows the other way. What matters to us is how much we receive. These things are correlated. See inverse-square law. [math]P=\frac{P_0}{4*\pi*r^2}[/math] r - distance from Sun to Earth P0 - energy emitted per second. P - energy received per second per m2. Neither power is constant (Sun cycles), nor distance between Sun and Earth, because of elliptical orbit 147 mln km-152 mln km depending on date.
Commander Posted January 2, 2015 Author Posted January 2, 2015 See this thread. I explained fusion process in the Sun very detail way: http://www.scienceforums.net/topic/85656-solar-fusion-neutrinos-and-age-of-solar-system/ f.e. liquid water (that's majority of Earth's surface) is transforming to gaseous state. It takes energy to do so. CO2 + energy -> C + O2, vegetables are consuming carbon dioxide and energy, and carbon is used to build their cells, while Oxygen is released to atmosphere. But majority of energy stored at day, is simply released during night. Hi Sensei, Thanks. Yes, that is quite a bit of energy received per Sq m of Earth's Surface. That shows how much Energy Sun is losing. Can you quantify that and how much is the mass of Sun getting reduced as a result as per our current understanding. Maybe the larger parts of that will be leaving the Solar System once and for all. Regards
Strange Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 While only a Fraction of the Energy emitted from the Sun is held within the Solar System the burnt out Energy escapes into Space travelling its Light Years just like Light from other Stars. Much is needed to explain and charter the paths of this energy. I'm not sure that "much is needed" to explain the paths of this energy. We know that light travels in straight lines. We know it can be absorbed or reflected. We know about gravitational lensing. As the whole of Solar System is hurtling along in its path with our Earth orbiting around the Sun while being carted along the Solar System Carrying along together the Moon [which catches up orbiting around the Earth while trying to fall towards the Earth as per Gravity Pull] and its atmosphere as well as Earth's Own Atmosphere and Surface Water etc, I think EARTH might lose or Gain Matter as well as Energy during its Journey [same goes to other Bodies as well] Why do you think any of this is relevant to global warming? Can you quantify that and how much is the mass of Sun getting reduced as a result as per our current understanding. Maybe the larger parts of that will be leaving the Solar System once and for all. Taking swansont's earlier figure of 384 yottwatts (3.8 x 10^26) and Einstein's e=mc2; we can calculate a loss of mass of about 3.8*1026 / c2 = 4 x 109 kg/s. There is also the solar wind which accounts for about another 1.5 x 109 kg/s. So about 6.5 million tons per second. This is a tiny fraction and could mean that the radius of the Earth's orbit increases by about 1.5 cm in a year. Pretty insignificant. While checking that, I came across this which comes to about the same conclusion: http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronomy/2014/07/14/solar_wind_versus_fusion_how_does_the_sun_lose_mass.html
Commander Posted January 2, 2015 Author Posted January 2, 2015 I'm not sure that "much is needed" to explain the paths of this energy. We know that light travels in straight lines. We know it can be absorbed or reflected. We know about gravitational lensing. Why do you think any of this is relevant to global warming? Taking swansont's earlier figure of 384 yottwatts (3.8 x 10^26) and Einstein's e=mc2; we can calculate a loss of mass of about 3.8*1026 / c2 = 4 x 109 kg/s. There is also the solar wind which accounts for about another 1.5 x 109 kg/s. So about 6.5 million tons per second. This is a tiny fraction and could mean that the radius of the Earth's orbit increases by about 1.5 cm in a year. Pretty insignificant. While checking that, I came across this which comes to about the same conclusion: http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronomy/2014/07/14/solar_wind_versus_fusion_how_does_the_sun_lose_mass.html Hi Strange, Thanks. Yes, it might be insignificant but I would like to study what are the Parameters taken into the Global warming Phenomenon before taking a final call/opinion !
Strange Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 Yes, it might be insignificant but I would like to study what are the Parameters taken into the Global warming Phenomenon before taking a final call/opinion ! Then why don't you research or ask about that, rather than making random statements about velocity and other irrelevancies?
Robittybob1 Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 I'm not sure that "much is needed" to explain the paths of this energy. We know that light travels in straight lines. We know it can be absorbed or reflected. We know about gravitational lensing. Why do you think any of this is relevant to global warming? Taking swansont's earlier figure of 384 yottwatts (3.8 x 10^26) and Einstein's e=mc2; we can calculate a loss of mass of about 3.8*1026 / c2 = 4 x 109 kg/s. There is also the solar wind which accounts for about another 1.5 x 109 kg/s. So about 6.5 million tons per second. This is a tiny fraction and could mean that the radius of the Earth's orbit increases by about 1.5 cm in a year. Pretty insignificant. While checking that, I came across this which comes to about the same conclusion: http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronomy/2014/07/14/solar_wind_versus_fusion_how_does_the_sun_lose_mass.html 1.5 cm/y and you say that is insignificant! What how long do you think the Earth has been here? Any small amount multiplied by 4.6 billion works out to be a long way.
Strange Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 From the Slate article: Assuming the mass loss is constant, the Earth has only moved out from the Sun 70,000 km in a billion years! That’s only a few times Earth’s own diameter. Even over its lifetime, the Earth’s orbit hasn’t changed much due to the Sun’s mass loss. Why do people have such a poor grasp of scale? That is a really, really, really tiny number. One of my favourite BBC programs, More or Less, has a standard question: "is that a big number?". Even very large numbers are not necessarily "big numbers".
Commander Posted January 2, 2015 Author Posted January 2, 2015 Then why don't you research or ask about that, rather than making random statements about velocity and other irrelevancies? Tell me what you know if you can - What is this Global Warming Scare ? Give me the Equations.
Strange Posted January 2, 2015 Posted January 2, 2015 Tell me what you know if you can - What is this Global Warming Scare ? Give me the Equations. It is not something I know that much about. This might help: http://nas-sites.org/climatemodeling/
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