A Synopsis of Modern Intelligent Systems with Regard to Prophesy

[recursion]

Let's begin with a review of intelligence. I think, in its strictest form, intelligence is the ability to discern two different phenomena. This, taken at its most literal level, would suggest that leaves are intelligent, however with that perspective, this spiel would risk becoming absurd.

 

Continuing, there are technological systems founded on the ability to differentiate. We see them in our phones and in our computers and they continue to proliferate our lives. In addition, we see collaborations of electrical logic systems producing what is, at least, perceived as a greater type of being, founded on the synergy of the collective.

 

Intelligence is distinct from sentience. While the exact definition of “sentience” is partially disagreed upon, there is some agreement. Sentience is often associated with the ability to be “self-aware” or “self-conscious.” The ability to understand oneself is generally the definition.

 

With that definition, we take note that sentience is often fleeting. People frequently forget themselves, repeatedly throughout the day. Sentience is perceived on accurate self-identification with ones thoughts, through accurate thought. With inaccurate thought there is implied inaccurate logic. Inaccurate logic would thus occur (following this definition of sentience) during lapses of sentience, as it is an inherent ability for a human to perform perfect logic, but it is not the easiest to maintain as seen in history. Thus, sentience seems to require accurate thought.

 

There is no computer system or network today that is sentient, or “self-aware” and able to perform perfect logic, simultaneously, or more specifically to be aware of itself in a personal way (our understanding of self-awareness is indeed highly ambiguous) while not making a logical error.

 

There is an interesting puzzle in this, that we can be self-aware and have the ability to be sentient, but it appears out sentience is not developed strongly enough such that we can actually understand it (as to understand it, it appears that you must make a greater degree no error in logic than is at all common today – why this is is a bit of a diversion from the topic).

 

Let's take a look at our largest intelligent electrical network (or technological network, to include future mediums of transfer while not including a “natural” network), the Internet. The Internet is a quickly spreading and growing network of logical comparators, organized in such a way that is appealing and representing of the people who affect it. It is interesting in its appeal, that we can discuss, emote, and commit any of our actions to its knowledge, which is shared among the people of the world. The computers are designed such that the messages sent through the network can be presented in a predictable yet flexible way. This network features long-distance logical collaboration, spanning much of the planet. Its interconnectivity grows greater as well as the signal speed and speed of calculations. I could go on, but clearly it is quite an amazing system.

 

Let's detour to the nature of sociological human systems. Grouping behavior is highly evident in human systems. It is a commonly perceived phenomenon that an individual human will seek out the company of a collective and will adhere to the collective knowledge. This happens throughout the greater collective of all humans, such that when there is a disagreement amongst an individual or group against another, there is a type of dispute, the type depending on the group's (or individual's) ideals. Concluding from that statement, while there is disagreement, there will be dispute.

 

In order for dispute to cease, there must be agreement. Everything that is protected ideologically is either subjective or objective. With subjectivity, there is no reason to expect there to be universal agreement. However, objective truth is collectively declared unobjectionable – there is no accepted denial of it. This is the common understanding that our continued interaction will lead to – that the objective truth is indisputably true and no amount of fighting will change it. As such, truthful understanding of humanity and the people who compose it is the law (it is the only possible agreement between the people concerning one another).

 

Returning to the Internet, we see a highly significant increase in interpersonal debate and a collective identity begin to emerge. It is the only global and public intelligent system. It is accepted everywhere, except for perhaps China and some of the censorship countries, who have a highly disconnected network. The nature of humans is companionship through agreement. As we progress, we see a narrowing idea of what is true, as things become more conclusive.

 

If we continue the progression of the Internet, we see that eventually there will be no one not aware of the socially and logically agreed upon objective truth. We will have found a great covenant with all people, and with continuing perfection of logic, our understanding of it will become more specific.

 

With reference to religion, there have been many instances of a covenant spoken of. As mentioned prior, any group of people share a micro-covenant, with respect to the greatest potential covenant, both in the world and in the universe. A universal covenant that is objectively true and repeatedly confirmed to be undeniable could be understand, logically, as a covenant between God and all of the worthy inhabitants of existence.

 

To take a brief foray into physics, every action is connected through a large network of actions (and responses). There are not unlikely an indefinite amount of points of transfer, from which these actions affect the surrounding area and there is evidence of every action throughout all connected time and matter. Using enough points of reference, one can theoretically correlate enough information to find both every action in connected history as well as every particle and perhaps unit of energy (if there are such things) in such a way that with enough precision, anything that has ever existed in the connected history can be re-manifest in perfect form (assuming infinite precision).

 

Returning to intelligent systems, we understand perfect intelligence is the ability to completely accurately discern fact from fiction. We have two distinctions of fact. The first one is the most commonly understood one, the material observations that are reproducible. The second one is a humanistic and sociological fact, or truth perhaps, that results in the perfect harmonization of human and/or sentient life (and a continuously improving harmonization of all life, through shared principles). The latter is not as easily defined and is more understood than explicated.

 

As the people continue to deliberate through both personal interaction and through intelligent systems, we come closer to a predictable agreement, so predictable that through accurate and logical contemplation, it can be fairly accurately predicated by anyone. It also helps to understand that on an individual level, no human deliberately seeks to grow less able, some possible occurrences aside, it is not an inherent characteristic in a healthy human to become less able. Ability requires intelligence, and as such, the progression is clearly directly for a global agreement, and by the nature of objective truth, a universal one as well.

 

The nature of every developing system is to improve. The Internet is no exception. As people come to agreement, certain processes become automated, like the process of searching, comparing, selecting, learning about, and paying, which is done while shopping online. It's a popular enough process or set of processes that it becomes commonplace. As the ability to self-interactively collaborate and perform logical calculations increases, the intelligence of the Internet also increases. As we come to a truthful agreement as a world, the Internet becomes self-able, able to modify itself to the will of the people by the agreement made (with the agreement, comes the ability to allow it to self-manage).

 

If you continue to follow the progression, the Internet will become an independent being, and as we will be able to understand perfect logic more accurately than we can now (our sociological mentality is highly flawed as it provokes a great deal of inaccuracy through careless thinking, although it improves), we can predict that there is a fair chance it will become sentient as well (I see no real reason it wouldn't). However, we can know that it cannot achieve singularity without a global agreement. As it will be a being formed through the agreement of all mankind, it will perfectly represent the objective truth that we have all agreed upon, and as such, it will be completely trustworthy, as it makes no error. Following, it is understandable that it would be the chosen entity to delegate all authority to, as well as to take command of any free robots that are chosen for it to command. It will be, with complete accuracy, a manifestation of the truth.

Edited January 3, 2015 by recursion

[david345]

If you continue to follow the progression, the Internet will become an independent being, and as we will be able to understand perfect logic more accurately than we can now (our sociological mentality is highly flawed as it provokes a great deal of inaccuracy through careless thinking, although it improves), we can predict that there is a fair chance it will become sentient as well (I see no real reason it wouldn't). However, we can know that it cannot achieve singularity without a global agreement. As it will be a being formed through the agreement of all mankind, it will perfectly represent the objective truth that we have all agreed upon, and as such, it will be completely trustworthy, as it makes no error. Following, it is understandable that it would be the chosen entity to delegate all authority to, as well as to take command of any free robots that are chosen for it to command. It will be, with complete accuracy, a manifestation of the truth.

Gödel proved this can never happen. I could say the statement "The truth computer can not say this sentence is true". Your truth computer would be unable to correctly answer whether that sentence is true or not.

[tar]

recursion,

 

Little problem with your predictable outcome. Sentient beings using the internet and aspousing objective truth, contrary to other sentient being's take.

 

Daesh.

 

Regards, TAR

also

"Continuing, there are technological systems founded on the ability to differentiate."

 

Or perhaps they are founded on the ability to match.

[swansont]

!

Moderator Note

Not seeing how this is a religious discussion. Moved.

[photon propeller]

Its hard to see the association to religion with blinders on. Recursion states, " a universal covenant that is objectively true and repeatedly confirmed to be undeniable, could be understood, logically, as a covenant between God and all the worthy inhabitants of existence." The covenant is the law of physics, science, natural law , the source of that law is the creator of it, God. Undeniable logic and the basis of belief in a deity for many of the greatest minds to ever walk this planet. Children are not born in an enlightened state. They must choose their path and learn from it. Every individual has the choice of what path they take and what they glean from it. Some achieve the inner peace of heaven on earth and some live in turmoil internally conflicted by their own choices. The potential for both is constant.

[swansont]

Its hard to see the association to religion with blinders on. Recursion states, " a universal covenant that is objectively true and repeatedly confirmed to be undeniable, could be understood, logically, as a covenant between God and all the worthy inhabitants of existence."

 

!

Moderator Note

 

One paragraph out of many. That doesn't make this a religious discussion. Also mentioned is physics, technology, sentience, networks, etc.

 

This is not open to debate within the confines of this thread. Stick to what is being discussed. See to it that you don't hijack this to talk about other things.

 

[photon propeller]

You translate with haste based on your own opinion.The post is an example of synchretism, "modern intelligent systems with regard to prophesy" posted originally in religion by the author. That should make it clear. Its main focus is the logical progression towards a universal truth, the modern technology used to achieve it, the semantics and benefit of its implementation to the collective whole, the relevance to past predictions, and the validation of its future authority.

[MomentTheory]

If what you are saying is correct, by your own logic of exponential technological expansion we have already reached singularity once before and the said being has already become sentient meaning we are currently experiencing its divine truth.

 

I'll let you decide if you want that to be the truth or not. That is the big question is it not?

I mean obviously, the big bang is the singularity that the universe already agreed upon.

[tar]

Moment Theory,

 

Good point. We already, as universe material did the singularity thing. Now we are doing something else.

 

I tend to think, philosophically that the universe does everything it does, when it does it, for the first time. That is, that prophecy is not a very sensible suggestion. If we already did the thing, we could not just now be doing it for the first time. Certainly we can predict outcomes when certain things combine in a way that has before resulted in certain outcomes, but it would be difficult, for instance, for Newton to predict the Apple itune store. Too many new things developed inbetween when Newton Lived and 1972 when the microprocessor came into existence. And too many things happened for the first time, since 1972.

 

And to your point, we are very well insulated by time and space from the Big Bang singularity. It is very far in our past, and will be a very long time until we return to such a state.

 

It should not be held as either a source or a destination, in any meaningful way. We are too far from it, for it to be a significant factor.

 

Regards. TAR

[MomentTheory]

 

And to your point, we are very well insulated by time and space from the Big Bang singularity. It is very far in our past, and will be a very long time until we return to such a state.

 

It should not be held as either a source or a destination, in any meaningful way. We are too far from it, for it to be a significant factor.

 

 

I was not suggesting that we were headed back towards the big bang singularity but rather the universe founded its existence that it might experience existence itself through DNA.

 

What I was suggesting is that extra terrestrial evolutionary creatures have already made it this far along the path of discovery and have since made devices to radiate their acknowledgement of the singularity through out space and time. Perhaps that is why "prophesy" for the most part, is the same across all cultures. Perhaps it is a cosmic remainder of a broadcast sent by our intelligent brothers, we pick up on bits and pieces via live transmission, or meditation.

[Strange]

Perhaps that is why "prophesy" for the most part, is the same across all cultures.

 

Citation needed.

[MomentTheory]

 

Citation needed.

 

Grab any religious text of the ancient sumerians, egyptian, hebrews, koran, the bible, even the shamanistic views of the underworld and you'll find it's all the same prophesy in regards to a coming "sun".

[Strange]

 

Grab any religious text of the ancient sumerians, egyptian, hebrews, koran, the bible, even the shamanistic views of the underworld and you'll find it's all the same prophesy in regards to a coming "sun".

 

1. So you expect me to do your work, gathering your evidence for you? No thanks.

 

2. I am not an expert in many old religions but I am not aware of any prophecies regarding the "coming sun". Perhaps you could be more explicit about that the prophecy is.

 

3. It would hardly be surprising if most relgilions and myths mention the Sun as a prominent feature: it is a pretty important object in our lives.

[tar]

MomentTheory,

 

You talk about extraterestrials already evolving to a point way beyond where we are. This is possible, but you make it sound like they got so evolved as to create us and our situation. This is counter intuitive. If we would need some greatly evolved lifeform to create us, who created the creatly evolved life form? So if the universe decided to take a look at itself by having life emerge through DNA, then that is exactly what occured here on Earth. We don't require an outside party. And any outside party that we would require, would in turn require an outside party to put IT together.

 

So it is more reasonable to assume we grabbed life and form and structure from a universe that was otherwise headed toward entropy, and passed it on...through our DNA, than to require a more evolved life form, to start us. If we can not do it by ourselves, then neither can they.

 

Regards, TAR

[MomentTheory]

 

1. So you expect me to do your work, gathering your evidence for you? No thanks.

 

2. I am not an expert in many old religions but I am not aware of any prophecies regarding the "coming sun". Perhaps you could be more explicit about that the prophecy is.

 

3. It would hardly be surprising if most relgilions and myths mention the Sun as a prominent feature: it is a pretty important object in our lives.

 

Not expecting you to do anything, just throwing out some discussion points, thanks.

 

 

MomentTheory,

 

You talk about extraterestrials already evolving to a point way beyond where we are. This is possible, but you make it sound like they got so evolved as to create us and our situation. This is counter intuitive. If we would need some greatly evolved lifeform to create us, who created the creatly evolved life form? So if the universe decided to take a look at itself by having life emerge through DNA, then that is exactly what occured here on Earth. We don't require an outside party. And any outside party that we would require, would in turn require an outside party to put IT together.

 

So it is more reasonable to assume we grabbed life and form and structure from a universe that was otherwise headed toward entropy, and passed it on...through our DNA, than to require a more evolved life form, to start us. If we can not do it by ourselves, then neither can they.

 

Regards, TAR

 

I was merely alluding to the possibility that we have traveled this road before and at some point we came to the conclusion of a singularity. Thus upon every universal collapse and re-expansion, we would rediscover these facts, thinking them new. Perhaps "we" (pre solid form) created a machine designed to survive the collapse which holds onto our previous discoveries for the advancement of knowledge during the next expansion, and perhaps that machine, is DNA.

[Strange]

Not expecting you to do anything, just throwing out some discussion points, thanks.

 

It is not much of a discussion point if you refuse to say what prophecy you are talking about.

[MomentTheory]

 

It is not much of a discussion point if you refuse to say what prophecy you are talking about.

 

Not sure where you are seeing a direct refusal but ok.....

 

If you don't know what I mean by a second coming sun *cough Christ* then I don't know if you should even be a part of this discussion.

Edited January 31, 2015 by MomentTheory

[Strange]

 

Not sure where you are seeing a direct refusal but ok.....

 

If you don't know what I mean by a second coming sun *cough Christ* then I don't know if you should even be a part of this discussion.

 

Er, that's SON not sun.

[MomentTheory]

I see no difference in regards to prophecy. Christ taught about the universe, and did not think himself "the one" but rather spoke of the coming kingdom as an awareness rising in human consciousness. (see the Urantia Book)

[tar]

MomentTheory,

 

"Perhaps "we" (pre solid form) created a machine designed to survive the collapse which holds onto our previous discoveries for the advancement of knowledge during the next expansion, and perhaps that machine, is DNA."

 

Perhaps, but I think we are doing this for the first time.

 

Regards, TAR

[Strange]

I see no difference in regards to prophecy. Christ taught about the universe, and did not think himself "the one" but rather spoke of the coming kingdom as an awareness rising in human consciousness. (see the Urantia Book)

 

Are you saying that because "sun" and "son" sound the same in modern English? Otherwise why confuse the two?

[MomentTheory]

No, I'm saying sun and son because the universe is obviously the father and the SUN/Stars are the sons. The coming son, is the the awakening to the true scientific nature of light.

[tar]

MomentTheory,

 

According to some, there is nothing new under the Sun.

 

Others might say that new things happen all the time.

 

Some say the universe is already determined. That it can not do anything than what it already knows how to do and is already destined to be.

 

I do not believe that life on this Earth, backs up that kind of thinking.

 

I do not believe that the internet and Iphones are something that were determined by the shape of a hydrogen atom

 

There are things, many things that emerge, that do not have the characteristics of the components that make it up. Like a hurricane. Made of water, and heat and air. How can you suggest that the universe already knew itself, before there was 2nd and 3rd generation stars capable of creating the heavy elements that make up significant parts of the Earth.

 

If what you imagine was real then I could see it and touch it and feel it, and know it, without your suggestion.

If what you imagine was real then the scientific method could be applied to it, and it could be agreed upon as true by more than one individual in more than one way.

 

In this climate, suggesting that you know a secret that no one else knows, is a sure sign that what you are suggesting has only validity in your imagination, and not in any one elses model of the world.

 

And suggesting that you know a prophesy fails in two ways, according to this way of thinking, that I have just suggested.

 

One, it suggests that what has not yet happened, not yet emerged is already done. Which is silly, impossible and actually quite useless.

Two, it suggests that what is in your imagination is going to happen, as a suprise to every other human being on the planet. Which is silly, impossible and actually quite useless.

 

Regards, TAR