why we still believe in a god

[Evgenia]

Kalevala of Finland, Olimpus gods of ancient Greece, Zaratoustra of ancient persians, Slavic pantheon, Gods of ancient India...I can name 15 different religions i was interested in. 

To be honest, the ancient religions with multipersonal God seem more real and understandable to me then paternalistic one-leader modern religions as Jesus or Allah,or Buddha cults.

But what i noticed are 3-4 years old kids do not think of God. They know nothing about which religion is a right one. If i am an adept of Zaratoustra and raise my child with the principles and rules of this cult, my kid will use that rules. Until he will be adult enough to choose another religion if he wants to. So religion is a social construct. It's not given.

But belief or trust in God is a personal thing. My parents can be religious and me personally can be an atheist. To be honest,it's more vice versa as i was born in Soviet Union when all religions were officially banned.

I believe in God because of personal experience. I had many of my own stories when i saw a hand of God, his plan about me. And i can say that for the last 5 years he (or "they", may be) is not happy with me. So we have some issues.But i have no doubt of his existence as i talk to him every day

I don't see how can i explain it better. That's a reason why belief and religion are different. The way he looks, how many arms he has, with white long beard he is or is it a fighting woman Kali, it doesn't matter to me. The most important thing is he never leaves me alone.

 

[bimbo36]

14 hours ago, Handy andy said:

Assuming thrown is more of a metaphor, I guess you are not talking about a tea pot or a living breathing person then . By the historical actions throughout history I guess we are not relevant in the scheme of things, and are perhaps being presumptious to believe this god other than being every where is not going to help anyone who does not help themselves. I am going for quantum foam, and a mystical quantum computer existing all around us in space, that transmits all forces and makes up all things and is god. Could I be wrong?. 

This could be a quantum computer that you speak of ?

I have posted this a couple of times for various reasons , here goes one more time

 

The logical , The ever living god ... Could be running on something like this no ? This is impossible ?

Edited July 31, 2017 by bimbo36

[Itoero]

21 hours ago, dimreepr said:

Oh please stop trying to dodge the facts and straw manning my argument, whatever else the books say, are you seriously denying that either book teaches forgiveness and tolerance at some point?

Yes and they also teach you to hit women, kill homosexuals and resent infidels.

[dimreepr]

22 minutes ago, Itoero said:

Yes and they also teach you to hit women, kill homosexuals and resent infidels.

When are you going to learn? It's people that hate not books...

[dimreepr]

BTW that's a suspicious number of neg reps Itoero, care to explain?

[Itoero]

21 hours ago, Area54 said:

But the signficance of the two Testaments, their relevance, their context, etc are quite different. It is entirely reasonable that you should be unaware of this since you have not studied them. However, it makes your pronouncements about them rather silly. It would be like me making declarations about the Kreb's cycle based on a half remembered wikipedia article. It may be possible to fashion an argument whose conclusions are similar to yours based upon the theology and practice of Christianity. It's just that such an argument would be quite different from the one you are using, in that it would be logical and based on fact, not fantasy.

Young earth creationists have probably a very different idea concerning the significance of the OT. The USA has probably more then 140 000 000 YEC....

[seriously disabled]

In some other online community, several posters attacked and insulted me for me being a social Darwinist.

However social Darwinism makes perfect sense to me now. I think that it's a dog eat dog world out there after all.

My point is that competition is human nature.

Humans compete for many sort of things:

We compete for scarce resources, we compete for money, we compete for food and men compete with each other for access to beautiful women and also access to wealth and political power.

Social Darwinism and human competition is just nature in my opinion. It's who we are physically speaking and nothing will ever be able to change that reality.

I think that the human brain is just hardwired for competition and Capitalism.

Edited July 31, 2017 by seriously disabled

[Itoero]

17 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

When are you going to learn? It's people that hate not books...

Moslims are known for women mal treatment. There are many verses in the Quran about women mal treatment. But you deny this obvious causal relationship?

[dimreepr]

5 minutes ago, Itoero said:

Moslims are known for women mal treatment. There are many verses in the Quran about women mal treatment. But you deny this obvious causal relationship?

You can choose to see the hate in people and/or their books, you're welcome to it; I choose a different path.

You seem to forget that I'm an atheist, which by definition means, I don't believe just because someone told me too; who told you?

[Itoero]

4 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

You can choose to see the hate in people and/or their books, you're welcome to it; I choose a different path.

You seem to forget that I'm an atheist, which by definition means, I don't believe just because someone told me too; who told you?

Religion teaches forgiveness but it alo teaches a lot of other stuff...then what's the point of religion? You're on the path that you deny 'facts', to fit your beliefs which are based on personal experience.

[dimreepr]

1 minute ago, Itoero said:

Religion teaches forgiveness but it alo teaches a lot of other stuff...then what's the point of religion? You're on the path that you deny 'facts', to fit your beliefs which are based on personal experience.

LMAO talk about irony, but I'm comfortable on this yellow brick road; what colour is yours?

[Itoero]

1 minute ago, dimreepr said:

LMAO talk about irony, but I'm comfortable on this yellow brick road; what colour is yours?

You never answer on statements that matter. I've noticed this behavior of you before...it's very annoying.

 

[dimreepr]

6 minutes ago, Itoero said:

You never answer on statements that matter. I've noticed this behavior of you before...it's very annoying.

 

FFS that's another irony meter buggered and it had a. so called, failsafe... 

Edited July 31, 2017 by dimreepr

[Area54]

5 hours ago, Itoero said:

Young earth creationists have probably a very different idea concerning the significance of the OT. The USA has probably more then 140 000 000 YEC....

Why are you moving the goalposts. Your assertion was about Christians. You didn't specify a particular subset.

Please provide evidence to support your contention that the USA has more 140 million YECs. If you can't please state that you were mistaken.

[Acme]

55 minutes ago, Area54 said:

Why are you moving the goalposts. Your assertion was about Christians. You didn't specify a particular subset.

Please provide evidence to support your contention that the USA has more 140 million YECs. If you can't please state that you were mistaken.

Who necromanced this 2 year old thread!  Anyway, I'm no Iotero -thank the Flying Spaghetti Monster- but I can lend some support to the 140 million figure. First, Wiki says that of July 1, 2017 the US population was  325,350,377. source Second, Wiki says in their page on Young Earth Creationism:

Quote

A 2017 Gallup creationism survey found that 38% of adults in the United States inclined to the view that "God created humans in their present form at one time within the last 10,000 years" when asked for their views on the origin and development of human beings, which Gallup noted was the lowest level in 35 years. Source

Lastly, my calculator tells me that 38% of 325,350,377 is 123,633,143 people. So, not 140 million, but still a considerable, if not worrying, number. Whether these folks would label themselves YECs would be fodder for another poll.

[Area54]

Thank you for the data Acme. My own estimate, made without benefit of real data, but vague recollection of population numbers and reported YECs in polls, computed more with my gut than my head, was 95 million. The one thing I was sure of was that it was less than 140 million, hence my challenge.

One might also consider the following. The poll would have been a poll of adults. If we assume - worst case - no one under the age of 15 was interviewed then the population sampled was 80% of the 325 million, i.e. roughly 260 million. 38% of that is 99 million, which is trending towards my gut wrenched number.

Of course this is all incidental to your important point, describing the "still considerable, if not worrying, number". I tend to find the number terrifying. If it was down around 20 million it would be merely frightening. It would need to be less than 5 million for me, for it to be merely worrying. If it went above the 140 million  itoero suspected I would lose control of my bowel movements.

Thanks again for the data. Perhaps iotero will grace us with an acknowledgement of his error.

[Acme]

1 hour ago, Area54 said:

Thank you for the data Acme. My own estimate, made without benefit of real data, but vague recollection of population numbers and reported YECs in polls, computed more with my gut than my head, was 95 million. The one thing I was sure of was that it was less than 140 million, hence my challenge.

One might also consider the following. The poll would have been a poll of adults. If we assume - worst case - no one under the age of 15 was interviewed then the population sampled was 80% of the 325 million, i.e. roughly 260 million. 38% of that is 99 million, which is trending towards my gut wrenched number.

Of course this is all incidental to your important point, describing the "still considerable, if not worrying, number". I tend to find the number terrifying. If it was down around 20 million it would be merely frightening. It would need to be less than 5 million for me, for it to be merely worrying. If it went above the 140 million  itoero suspected I would lose control of my bowel movements.

Thanks again for the data. Perhaps iotero will grace us with an acknowledgement of his error.

Damn new editor won't allow me to toggle to text mode and parse your reply. Arrrggghhh!

Anyway, your are correct to make the adjustment for adults; my bad for not taking the time to do that. Perhaps between that and the fact that on the 38% "...Gallup noted was the lowest level in 35 years.", our bowels will not befoul us and merely threaten.

As to the more general question of the thread, vis-à-vis the belief in a god, we may also take some comfort in that such belief is also on the wane in the US according to the Demography of the United States Wiki page.

Quote

In a Pew Research Survey performed in 2012, Americans without a religion (atheists, agnostics, nothing in particular, etc.) surpassed Evangelical Protestant Americans with almost 20% of Americans being nonreligious. If this current growth rate continues, by 2050, around 51% of Americans will not have a religion.

A survey conducted in 2014 by the same organization indicated that the percentage of Americans unaffiliated with a religion rose to nearly 23% of the population, up from 16% in 2007

At the same time, Pastafarianism is on the rise. Flying Spaghetti Monster preserve us! All hail his noodly appendages. As is written in the Pastalms of the The Loose Canon:

Quote

1 The Flying Spaghetti Monster is my chef; I shall not want.
2 He maketh me to sit down at full tables: he leadeth me beside the busy kitchens.
3 He restoreth my appetite: he leadeth me in the paths of excellent cuisine for his name's sake.
4 Arr, though I walk through the kitchen of the empty cupboards, I will fear no hunger: for thou art with me; thy noodles and thy meatballs they comfort me.
5 Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my meal with sauce; my platter runneth over.
6 Surely flavor and deliciousness shall follow me all the minutes of my supper: and I will dwell in the dining room of the Flying Spaghetti Monster forever.

Always my pleasure to provide and per se purvey germane data.

Edited August 1, 2017 by Acme
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[Area54]

16 minutes ago, Acme said:

As to the more general question of the thread, vis-à-vis the belief in a god, we may also take some comfort in that such belief is also on the wane in the US according to the Demography of the United States Wiki page.

I don't have much of a problem with people believing in God. I do have a problem with those who view him as a book publisher who only puts out a single volume that contains absolute truth.

[Handy andy]

On ‎31‎/‎07‎/‎2017 at 9:01 AM, bimbo36 said:

This could be a quantum computer that you speak of ?

I have posted this a couple of times for various reasons , here goes one more time

 

The logical , The ever living god ... Could be running on something like this no ? This is impossible ?

I was just guessing  trying to get a handle on what god thingy is being talked about here. I do believe in electronics and computer control systems, that can control factories, but have a little difficulty understanding how the god idea works, without human actuators and appropriate programming. Perhaps that is how god works, children are programmed like chickens to believe a thing told to them by programmers or priests. And then do as they are programmed to do when a button is pressed a bit like a flock of birds or sheep. If there is a bug in the programming they self destruct taking a few others with them.

The great god tweety pie in the sky on his/her thrown upon high, with priests never resting will live forever, and never have to do anything him/her self.  more coffee required

[Itoero]

15 hours ago, Area54 said:

Why are you moving the goalposts. Your assertion was about Christians. You didn't specify a particular subset.

Please provide evidence to support your contention that the USA has more 140 million YECs. If you can't please state that you were mistaken.

Seriously? You have obviously very little knowledge concerning this subject and you don't bother to look things up....what's the point of this discussion?

I was wrong, USA has at least 123.000.000 YEC's.

[dimreepr]

4 hours ago, Handy andy said:

I was just guessing  trying to get a handle on what god thingy is being talked about here. I do believe in electronics and computer control systems, that can control factories, but have a little difficulty understanding how the god idea works, without human actuators and appropriate programming. Perhaps that is how god works, children are programmed like chickens to believe a thing told to them by programmers or priests. And then do as they are programmed to do when a button is pressed a bit like a flock of birds or sheep. If there is a bug in the programming they self destruct taking a few others with them.

The great god tweety pie in the sky on his/her thrown upon high, with priests never resting will live forever, and never have to do anything him/her self.  more coffee required

 

20 minutes ago, Itoero said:

Seriously? You have obviously very little knowledge concerning this subject and you don't bother to look things up....what's the point of this discussion?

I was wrong, USA has at least 123.000.000 YEC's.

Atheists are all too often overly concerned with this god thingy and all too often use it to dismiss the wisdom of ages past in the conceit that we know best because of all this stuff we've created and learned, so why does god, matter?

Simply because knowledge doesn't equal wisdom, every generation has to acquire wisdom for itself, it doesn't matter how, but it does matter that we do.

Revenge and hatred are humanities frailty, an eye for an eye, in certain cultures is wisdom but in a more refined culture forgiveness and tolerance is wisdom. 

You both hate religions, that much is obvious but you both fail to see that for a vast majority of humanity and an even vaster majority of the religious, the books and/or god provides a great deal of solace and a path to wisdom.

[dimreepr]

6 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

I was wrong, USA has at least 123.000.000 YEC's.

You're going to have to provide some evidence of this, a third of Americans? Get a grip...

[Itoero]

I don't hate religion.  People don't chose what or who they are.

[dimreepr]

3 minutes ago, Itoero said:

I don't hate religion.  People don't chose what or who they are.

Your posts suggest otherwise.

[dimreepr]

Just now, dimreepr said:

People don't chose what or who they are.

Yes, mostly, they do I certainly chose to be an atheist.