Strange Posted January 19, 2015 Posted January 19, 2015 In what way? I have no idea. But in a discussion about God it seems bizarre to ask how human activity relates to God. It is a bit like asking how driving cares relates to Ford. (Well, apart from the fact that Ford exists.)
Robittybob1 Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 I have no idea. But in a discussion about God it seems bizarre to ask how human activity relates to God. It is a bit like asking how driving cares relates to Ford. (Well, apart from the fact that Ford exists.) Lost me there, sorry.
Strange Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 Lost me there, sorry. If someone is discussing God then the assumption is that they assume the existence of God and that God created humans. It therefore seems very odd for that person to ask "how are hums [or human activities] related to God?" After all, they appear to believe that God created those humans and is therefore, at least indirectly, responsible for what they do. But maybe that isn't as obvious as it seems to me.
Robittybob1 Posted January 20, 2015 Posted January 20, 2015 If someone is discussing God then the assumption is that they assume the existence of God and that God created humans. It therefore seems very odd for that person to ask "how are hums [or human activities] related to God?" After all, they appear to believe that God created those humans and is therefore, at least indirectly, responsible for what they do. But maybe that isn't as obvious as it seems to me. ... Everyone has a different understanding of what they believe too.
Willie71 Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) ...because people don't like to grieve. We are indoctrinated/brainwashed as kids to have this great, awesome magical friend who can cure disease, give us everlasting bliss (without sex, alcohol, cool music, and with mind numbing monotony- how many times did we check the time left in mass growing up?) if we give up all happiness in this life, in exchange for an afterlife we have to accept on faith. Since we have a personal relationship with this friend who never confirms he is there (why is he a he?) nor answers our prayers beyond a frequency consistent with confirmation bias, we are trained to bond in the same way a battered woman bonds with her abuser, on promises it will be better in the future, and that he really does love her, even though any objective measure would smash that assertion. So, you see it's obvious. We are traumatically bonded to him, and it's nearly impossible to break the abuse cycle. Edited January 22, 2015 by Willie71
Robittybob1 Posted January 22, 2015 Posted January 22, 2015 (edited) .......answers our prayers beyond a frequency consistent with confirmation bias, .... So, you see it's obvious. We are traumatically bonded to him, and it's nearly impossible to break the abuse cycle. I have an idea, I think we can do better than that. Have you ever experienced faith? Like what Jesus spoke of, a little faith can move a mountain! That sort of faith. Edited January 22, 2015 by Robittybob1
Ten oz Posted February 11, 2015 Posted February 11, 2015 People continue to believe in God for the same reason they continue to speak the language they were born with, eat the diet they were raised on, wear the clothes fashionable to their region, and so on. Some people break the cycle. Some people make the concious chioce to change their diets or decide a different style of dress would be more advantageous for them; just as some people become Athiests. The majority doesn't change though. In terms of culture and tradition people are exactly what they are raised to be.
Phi for All Posted February 11, 2015 Posted February 11, 2015 People continue to believe in God for the same reason they continue to speak the language they were born with, eat the diet they were raised on, wear the clothes fashionable to their region, and so on. Some people break the cycle. Some people make the concious chioce to change their diets or decide a different style of dress would be more advantageous for them; just as some people become Athiests. The majority doesn't change though. In terms of culture and tradition people are exactly what they are raised to be. Except I don't think people become Atheist for a certain advantage. I think people become Atheist when they learn enough to realize that faith is asking for your strongest beliefs and giving you nothing substantial to base those beliefs on. Knowledge of the natural world is expanding, closing the gaps where gods still lurk to lure the ignorant back into the Iron Age. I think of it more like unpulling the wool from one's eyes. Unless you're talking about the obvious advantages of rational thought, less fear, and more time for brunch on Sunday.
Delbert Posted February 13, 2015 Posted February 13, 2015 in theory I think that the reason a lot of people still believe in god is that at one time we didn't understand how the world works so the easiest explanation for many of are questions is god. now that we have many answers to are questions. it is very easy to question the existence of god. Nothing to do with it. We humans tell stories to each other. Stories which give us a fellow feeling, encouraging individuals to work together as a team to achieve a common end - tribal. Put simply, working as a team to survive. Such stories may be true and based on fact or may be total fiction - the later being probably more common. Fact or fiction it doesn't matter, as long as it instigates a fellow feeling to enable a group effort to work as a team.
Delbert Posted February 16, 2015 Posted February 16, 2015 Had a couple knock on my door yet again the other day (Me thinks they've got me marked down in their book, or something!), and from discussion they offered the example of their understanding of evolution being that a donkey would have to mate with a horse for species to change or a new one appear. They continued and said that it doesn't happen (apart from rare exceptions), so therefore evolution is false. I did venture into discussion with them, but their view seemed unshakeable. I was completely puzzled by their understanding, but then again perhaps my understanding is wrong! It seems that in general they have the view that species don't change, and therefore for something different to appear it has to be a product of creatures already in existence, as in the example above. On the specific thread subject we ventured into discussing atoms, and how weird they appear (quantum mechanics and all that). Their view was that that therefore meant that they must have been created by a omnipotent being, i.e. God. I said that similar to the Sun centred solar system, as far as I know the religious establishment countered any suggestion of the existence of such things in the early part of the last century. To the extent that they labelled Ludwig Boltzmann irreligious for suggesting things are made of atoms, to the degree that he ended up committing suicide. Think I've got my history right - but perhaps others know better.
halsienkiewicz1 Posted February 23, 2015 Posted February 23, 2015 The suggestion that people who believe in a God are weak, in need of a crutch, is patronizing and an exercise in self flattery, usually by atheists. There is no sound evidence that suggests the level of intelligence or indeed knowledge, is the cause of religious beliefs.
Delbert Posted February 23, 2015 Posted February 23, 2015 The suggestion that people who believe in a God are weak, in need of a crutch, is patronizing and an exercise in self flattery, usually by atheists. There is no sound evidence that suggests the level of intelligence or indeed knowledge, is the cause of religious beliefs. I'm not aware that anyone is saying anything of the sort. As my offering #34 above, it seems we humans tell stories to each other, which may enable us to join as groups from friendship and fellow feelings. These stories may well be factual or complete fiction, it doesn't matter. The latter is probably more likely. But as long a we feel comfortable with each other as a consequence and experience and reinforce friendship and fellow feeling, we can engage in joint enterprise to achieve something we can't as individuals. Over the years when they've called as above, they've made all sorts of suggestions as to why the discoveries of science are wrong. But as I tend to point out to them they slowly accept the findings they previously fervently claimed as fact to be wrong - atoms and Sun centred solar system mentioned above, to name just two.
Hendrick Laursen Posted February 23, 2015 Posted February 23, 2015 I think, the theist approach to "God" is ignored in this discussion.
Strange Posted March 1, 2015 Posted March 1, 2015 There is no sound evidence that suggests the level of intelligence or indeed knowledge, is the cause of religious beliefs. Although there is a (negative) correlation: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160289608000238
KenBrace Posted March 4, 2015 Posted March 4, 2015 I don't have a problem with a belief in God that is like Einstein's or is a deist view. What I don't like is the fundamentalist religious views. People need to snap out of it and stop believing that Jonah lived in a whale's belly for three days and God created the universe 6,000 years ago with magic.
Delbert Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 (edited) What I don't like is the fundamentalist religious views. People need to snap out of it and stop believing that Jonah lived in a whale's belly for three days and God created the universe 6,000 years ago with magic. Well, if it's not based on evidence and reasoned investigation, what else is it? Interesting conversation the other day during a restaurant meal, whereby a friend stated that evolution is false because dogs can't talk! Can't talk, which means they can't and couldn't survive on their own. Can't recall how the conversation got round to such, but I thought it best not to pursue the argument, and changed the subject to the food - which was rubbish! With those knocking on the door about horses mating with donkeys a couple of weeks ago, for some reason I seem to have attracted a few arguments. I'm sorry, but magic might be the word. Edited March 5, 2015 by Delbert
Phi for All Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 Interesting conversation the other day during a restaurant meal, whereby a friend stated that evolution is false because dogs can't talk! Can't talk, which means they can't and couldn't survive on their own. Wow. That's right up there with "If evolution is true, why don't we have wings by now?" If you had corrected the misconception, knowing your friend, would that stop him from using that argument ever again? I find that the same kind of person who finds a sound byte they like ("If we evolved from monkeys, why do we still have monkeys?") won't give it up even after it's explained to them how wrong it is. I had a client tell me my workers showed up at a project, did a little work, then left for lunch and didn't come back. I explained that this was not the case, that after they had started working they found we got shipped the wrong parts. They finished what they could and then left to do other work, and rescheduled the installation. I didn't mind that she had been misinformed, but a week later she again mentioned that my workers better not leave for lunch and not come back this time. I find this intellectually dishonest, and it's the same thing that happens a lot with creationist arguments. The same old, tired, refuted arguments keep getting pushed on us because some people prefer justification to reason.
Delbert Posted March 5, 2015 Posted March 5, 2015 If you had corrected the misconception, knowing your friend, would that stop him from using that argument ever again? On occasions I've discussed at some length with the doorknockers, and whatever one says their view seems unmoveable. And it seemed similar with my friend as before I changed the subject as above, I did start to counter his idea. He immediately interrupted me to inform me (with hand movements!) that he's 'looked into it all'. It was clear he wasn't willing to consider any view contrary to his. It was at this point I changed the subject. As regards the doorknockers previously mentioned above, in addition they also stated that they have evidence disproving evolution. I replied: get it published, peer reviewed and astound the scientific community. They replied that that doesn't or didn't work (I can't recall which), to which I responded: that's because it doesn't stand up to scrutiny.
alexandraericks Posted March 22, 2015 Posted March 22, 2015 We can't look at this mathematically or scientifically. This is purely emotional. It's hope. People need hope to know that everything they work for is for something. For some this means the promise of heaven, and for others it means love from God. People need a reason to live, and religion is the most common and arguably the most binding of all reasons. Almost everyone can understand religion. If you can't read or write or see, you can still feel. You can feel the enormity of the universe. And a great binding force called God explains all of this enormity. People have to hope that they aren't just a grain of sand in an ocean. I need that too. And so I tell myself that I was made from stardust, and that I'll become stardust. And that's my place in the Before and the After of my existence. If that's called Heaven and the universe is called God, then that's my religion.
Ten oz Posted March 22, 2015 Posted March 22, 2015 I think Hope as an explanation is too simple. Humans generally like to believe they are in total concious control of there thoughts. We rationalize our emotions. That isn't necessarily the case. Whether its the music we enjoy or the food we most like often it is purely a matter of familiarity, culture. How a person dresses, the greetings they give, and sort of god they believe in vary all around the world. It is learned behavior. I am a atheist and yet when I hear or see the word God I think of Jesus. I have been conditioned by my culture. When people tell me they believe in Aliens (as having current interaction with earth) I think they are nuts. What someone says they believe in the devil I think they are typical. What is the difference? If there were a Devil wouldn't he/she/it basically be an alien? The Devil was not created on earth. Neither was God or angels. So why do I find belief in Aliens more strange that belief in Devils and Gods? It is all just conditioning.
dimreepr Posted March 22, 2015 Posted March 22, 2015 We can't look at this mathematically or scientifically. This is purely emotional. It's hope. People need hope to know that everything they work for is for something. For some this means the promise of heaven, and for others it means love from God. People need a reason to live, and religion is the most common and arguably the most binding of all reasons. Almost everyone can understand religion. If you can't read or write or see, you can still feel. You can feel the enormity of the universe. And a great binding force called God explains all of this enormity. People have to hope that they aren't just a grain of sand in an ocean. I need that too. And so I tell myself that I was made from stardust, and that I'll become stardust. And that's my place in the Before and the After of my existence. If that's called Heaven and the universe is called God, then that's my religion. It seems to me people work, generally, for more things or to accumulate enough money to alleviate a fear of the future; maybe that could be considered hope but not in any ethereal way. Whether the above is true or a belief that some sort of god will provide, is to forget to live for what is here and now; enjoying life for what it can provide seems to be forgotten in our modern world in favour of what I have that others don’t.
brokenal Posted March 22, 2015 Posted March 22, 2015 i believe in god, i think there is no good or evil if we didn't know god, it gives me hope, and a reason to live. god will not disappear because we all know about the concept of god, we all think about it, even atheists do, because not believing in god is often central to what makes them atheist.
Strange Posted March 22, 2015 Posted March 22, 2015 even atheists do, because not believing in god is often central to what makes them atheist. Is not being a fan of football central to what makes me an afootballist? It seems unlikely as I can go months or years without thinking about football.
John Cuthber Posted March 22, 2015 Posted March 22, 2015 Is not being a fan of football central to what makes me an afootballist? It seems unlikely as I can go months or years without thinking about football. I have the same thing about being a notbutterflycollectorist. On the other hand, I can't argue against the idea that "not believing in god is often central to what makes them atheist. " It's true that not being theist is what makes me atheist; more or less by definition. I'm also not very concerned about the concept of God disappearing any time soon. After all, I can still look up the references for the luminiferous ether, phlogiston and so on. Just because we know something doesn't exist doesn't stop the concept existing. I just wonder if this is any more or less meaningful that Brokeal's point I believe in unicorns, I think there is no good or evil if we didn't know unicorns, it gives me hope, and a reason to live. unicorns will not disappear because we all know about the concept of unicorns, we all think about it
brokenal Posted March 23, 2015 Posted March 23, 2015 I just want to say, there are those that are proud to be atheist, and if you ask them why, they mention god or not believing in god. if you're not a fan of football, you don't call yourself 'afootballist', you don't go to great lengths to discuss god, and why you don't believe in god. Because whether or not you believe in god, he is important.
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now