How to defeat political Islam

[dimreepr]

You can only punch the guy if he's stood in front of you, this type of terrorist is already dead, so punch away it can only hurt you.

education has already played a role, but somebody other than me put some strange ideas in the SOBs head

How do you arrange to teach other people's children, without first taking over their schools, by force?
that is, objectively speaking, why are your ideas better than the

"The Marja is a label used by the Shia community, meaning source to follow.
The most respected of the Marjas are entitled Allamah. This Persian name for Teacher is also used by some Sunnis to denote a teacher of extraordinary respect.
Ulema/Ulama is the title that indicates that the teacher has come to awareness of the consensus, the ijma, of the Umma. Umma is the universal community of all the followers of God as understood by the Muslim community (cf. Sangha, Ecclesia)
Mufti is a someone who interprets or expounds Islamic law (Sharia and fiqh)
Muhaddith is someone who has profound knowledge of the Haddith, and teaches by Narration, or storytelling.
Mullah is often the title of the teachers at the Madrasahs, Islamic schools. Mullah is a teacher in regard of being respected as a vicar and guardian of Qur'an and the Islamic traditions.
The Shia believe that an Imam can lead mankind in all aspects of life. The Imam is appointed by God. Muhammad informed that the number of Caliphs after him will be 12. The majority of the Muslim world are awaiting the 12th Imam: The Mahdi, either as a first time appearance or as a reappearance after a long occultation. The Mahdi is the greatest teacher, the Messiah of the Islamic World, and the Maitreya of Buddhism.
Mawlawi is a Persian word for teacher meaning Master.
Sheikh is sheikh is an Arabic honorific term that literally means Elder. It is a long historic debate in many cultures whether the elder in itself denotes the role and status of a teacher.
Ayatollah is a high ranking title given to Shi'a clerics.
Mujaddid is someone is sent by God to aid the Umma and revive Islam at the beginning of every century .
Marabout is a spiritual teacher of Islam as it is taught in the West Africa and Maghreb, The word comes from the Berber concept of Saint. The "marabout" is known as "Sayyed" (سيد) to the Arabic speaking Maghribians
teachers of Islam teach scholars"

 

 

In order to teach one must first understand; war and peace, yin and yang, create different masters.

[tar]

Dimreeper,

 

Different masters? What are you talking about?

 

 

Regards, TAR

give me a "for instance"

[dimreepr]

 

This song sums it up quite neatly.

 

Power is an elixir that demands protection against change, the lack thereof demands change in order to become powerful; only a true master understands the difference.

[tar]

dimreeper,

 

No idea what the song was advocating, nor what you are talking about with the different masters, nor what tired of being tired of being tired type Buddist word hash you are suggesting will clear this political Islam problem up.

 

Regards, TAR

you want us to all get stoned, up the establishment, put flowers in the guns and live in peace and harmony...we tried that in the 60s...got us here

https://www.bing.com/search?q=there%27s+something+happening+here&form=PRUSEN&mkt=en-us&httpsmsn=1&refig=600983c57a2c4496980ff447e7382500&ghc=1&qs=AS&pq=there%27s+something+happ&sc=7-22&sp=1&cvid=600983c57a2c4496980ff447e7382500

[dimreepr]

Isn't it obvious?

 

power is fleeting; you can pull up the drawbridge but that's no defense against an actual bridge.

 

Peace can't defend your power but it can defend you.

 

you just have to decide what is more important; stuff or contentment.

[tar]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flower_Power_(photograph)

[dimreepr]

Now you're getting it...

[tar]

dimreepr,

 

How old are you?

 

I ask, because I am of the age where I have both the contentment and the stuff, and the one reinforces the other. You can't have the product without the factory, you can't have the weekend without the workweek.

 

I just wonder how you figure you can spread wealth around equally, without having the wealth to spread around in the first place.

 

Hippy communes were tried in the 60s and 70s. Most failed because some people worked harder than others and contributed more to the pot and others slid by not contributing anything.

 

Find different masters indeed. I hope you find one that has money to buy you supper.

 

Regards, TAR

um...I already got that...over 45 years ago...I have moved on to getting other things

Edited September 9, 2016 by tar

[dimreepr]

I am of the age where I have both the contentment and the stuff, and the one reinforces the other. You can't have the product without the factory, you can't have the weekend without the workweek.

 

 

If you were truly content, stuff is irrelevant; culture/stuff is your influence and your master.

[tar]

OK I have a master that you think is worthless.

Try and take it from me and I will probably fight you.

Same with someone that wants to take my way of life away. I will resist.

[dimreepr]

OK I have a master that you think is worthless

When did I say this?

 

 

Try and take it from me and I will probably fight you.

Same with someone that wants to take my way of life away. I will resist.

 

 

Who wins depends on power, if I'm ten times larger than you, then I win; resist away.

[tar]

dimreepr,

 

Well one of my problems with people blowing themselves up, so that they will have rivers of honey and Satin benches and virgins and such, is that it is all imaginary stuff, and the real, waking world is ignored. You are doing a similar thing, to suggest that real contentment has nothing to do with food and clothing and shelter and comfort and safety and having pretty things to look at, and lovely music to listen to, and good friends to laugh with and good food cooking on the stove to smell, and fine sweet deserts to taste and games to play on the computer, and shows to watch on TV...

 

Your Buddist logic would say you are only content when you have no pleasure at all...which is blatantly, demonstrably false.

 

Regards, TAR

um, I happen to be a citizen of the U.S. with one of the strongest militaries in the world, I think I can do a good job of resisting

[dimreepr]

Your Buddist logic would say you are only content when you have no pleasure at all...which is blatantly, demonstrably false.

 

 

Bugger, can I never have fun?

[tar]

right, you can not have fun, because then you would not be content in having no pleasure

[dimreepr]

Well I'm off to bed, have fun...

[tar]

good night

pleasant dreams

[Ten oz]

@Tar, I think it is safe for me to speak for the whole forum and say none of us like suicide bombers killing people, ISIS (any extremists) beheading people, and etc. We all have that in common.

 

The only disagreement is what is the best way to end that behavior. You keep falling back to listing the terrible behavior and stating that you are against it as if this were an either or situation; we tolerate murders or murder murderers. If this was that simple, black and white, it would have already been resolved.

Edited September 10, 2016 by Ten oz

[tar]

Ten Oz,

 

Granted, we the none of us, can stomach seeing a countryman bound on his knees, about to die by having his head cut off. Question is, how bad do you want to stop it? What blood and treasure are you willing to lose to stop it? If you are a pacifist you are not willing to put any blood toward it. You can manage some treasure, some humanitarian aid, but you will not send a drone. You will not send special forces. You will not send a bomber or a cruise missile. You will not send an army. All you are willing to send is DVDs and to spend some money on a counter terrorist web site.

 

When the guy is walking down the street, shooting people randomly the situation is black and white. You ask him forcefully to stop, and when he does not, you shoot him dead.

o

It becomes not black and white, when you draw a line in the sand, and then let the guy step over it.

 

I have suggested, on an other thread a while back, what we need to do. We have to establish diplomatic ties with Assad, and help him regain control of his country. We have to make a deal with him, that there will be no reprisals against the rebels we have backed. In exchange we will stop pushing regime change, and help the country, under Assad's leadership get back on its feet. Send doctors and engineers and food and equipment and materials. Meanwhile, tell the Caliph his State is not welcome within the borders of Syria nor the borders of Iraq. Help Assad, with our air power and special forces, and troops if required, go into Raqqa and find the leaders of ISIS and kill them dead. Being sure to find their tunnels with the best sensing equipment we have, and destroying them with them in there. Or finding the air vents and sending down some disabling materials or whatever it takes. If done, with Assad's backing we could do it in a month or a week or a couple of days. We just need the will. The thing that makes it complicated, is we want regime change and Assad does not, and the Russians do not. First things first. Respect the sovereign rights of Syria and stop supporting the rebels. Protect them, and find a peaceful path to reintegration into Syrian government, but don't support them as rebels with regime change the goal. That is up to an election. If we can't do that, and we must have regime change, then declare war on Assad, and go in there and remove him. Nothing complicated about it. It is black and white. Only if you want regime change but don't want to pay for it, does it become complicated as the last 5 and a half years has shown us.

 

So anyway, Ten Oz, what is your plan?

 

Regards, TAR

[dimreepr]

Tar, you are missing the point of terrorism, there is no army to fight or even argue with; sure we can take steps to mitigate their antics through intelligence, but you can't go toe to toe with a shadow, all your talk of giving blood to defend your country is futile when there is no physical enemy to engage.

 

A war on terror has as much effect, in the real world, as a war on Santa; all it does is create misery.

Edited September 10, 2016 by dimreepr

[Ten oz]

@Tar, not wanting to commit 2003 levels of troops into a ground war in Syria is not equal to being pacifist. What blood and treasure am I willing to give? I would give it all if I believed it would save lives. You say the question is "how bad" do we want to stop it. I say the question is what is the best way to stop it. My passions, "how bad", doesn't take priority over the the on the ground realities.

 

What is my plan, what would I like to say happen? I would like to see us (USA) sitting down in Iran with with the wealthy opec nations. I would like us to let it be known that we will provide support (training and money) to countries in the reigon to resolve the conflict rather than how countries from outside the reigon like USA and Russia being directly involved. I would like to see us (USA) pushing via financial support and trade agreements the wealthy opec nations to take Syrian refugees. Most jobs in those nations go to foriegn workers anyway. Those nations could actually employ refugees very easily. We need to empower the reigon to take the lead which means resolving our less important squabbles with Iran.

[tar]

but what do we do about regime change? It is our half support of the rebels that made the mess in the first place. Sure we can let Iran take the region over...but we do not want that either, and neither do the Saudis want that.

 

One of the issues here, and in the Middle East for many score of years now, is control of the oil. We, the British, the French, the U.S. have been acting like daddies of children toward the middle Eastern countries. Like we are going to tell them, how its going to be. I think the adults in those countries take offense at this type of help.

 

Now of course Russia and Iran and the Saudis are also trying to be the parents, and have control of the oil. So we have a regional conflict with everybody fighting a proxy war. The Turks against the Kurds, and everything else.

 

For there to be peace, we have to let go, and ask Russia and Iran and Turkey and the Saudis, and the British and the French and the Germans to let go, as well.

Go in as a group in a UN type of way with actual assistance, but let Assad control it. It is his country.

And under this kind of umbrella pledge our (the world's) full support to Assad, to get the Caliph out of Raqqa.

One way to help stabilize an area in disarray is to stop destabilizing it. Support the governments of the countries, whether we like them or not. (which does not include support of the Islamic state, since it is unrecognized by the international community.)

Edited September 10, 2016 by tar

[dimreepr]

It's way to late to take this approach, with regard to regime change, The fuse has been lit and the ball is rolling; the west is better off disengaging entirely, other than to mop up the shit it created with this pseudo war.

[tar]

and where does the west then get their energy if not from Russia or the Middle East?

[Ten oz]

@Tar, where did I post let Iran take the region over? You are completely exaggerating what is posted in respionse to you. In turn it is impossible to address the question you ask but they are rebuttals to things no one has posted.

[dimreepr]

and where does the west then get their energy if not from Russia or the Middle East?

 

 

That's what started all this shit in the first place.