Water Diesel Engine

[Guest Kane]

Hey guys

this probably sounds crazy, but why couldnt you use water in a diesel engine?

 

ok first of all, i know they used to inject water WITH diesel/petrol to improve fuel efficiency with some engines, and racing cars.

 

but the compression of a diesel lends itself to high compression temps right? (around 500C ?)

so if you could inject a fine mist of water at this temperature wouldnt it expand to produce steam?

 

or am i totally missing something? (probably the case)

 

ive searched all over but the steam tables dont really make much sense to me

 

as i say, it probably sounds (and is) a crazy idea.

 

but id just like to know from the experts why it wouldnt work

 

thanks

Kane

[Externet]

Hi.

Give this a look :

http://www.dave-cushman.net/misc/mannject.html

 

Miguel

[mustang292]

Let me know when you find a diesel engine to, and tell us what happens.

[Bluenoise]

Hmmmm heating water to make steam and cause pistons to move....

 

.... Sounds a hell of a lot like a steam engine to me.

Would have been a good idea if you came up with this a few hundred years ago

 

And how do you propose to heat the water to expand it? Remember heating water takes energy. Gas expands because it's combustion releases energy.

[Ophiolite]

You are using some form of fuel to heat the water. That is an inefficient process. Some of the energy is wasted as heat elsewhere in the system. Net result, the process is less efficient than burning the fuel directly in the engine.

[d22k]

i get the impression that u mean water alone, o deisel rite?

and that the act of compression would heat the water, causing it to turn to steam?

 

i imagine this wouldnt work because the water would not turn to steam in an explosive manner, in the way that the explosion of the deisel would.

 

nice idea tho

[Skye]

Things don't go from liquid to gas under compression, if anything the opposite occurs.

[darth tater]

i get the impression that u mean water alone' date=' o deisel rite?

and that the act of compression would heat the water, causing it to turn to steam?

 

[u']i imagine this wouldnt work because the water would not turn to steam in an explosive manner, in the way that the explosion of the deisel would.[/u]

 

nice idea tho

 

Plus, the greater the pressure, the hotter the water has to be before it vaporizes into steam.

[ed84c]

Unless the Overall temepreature of the Exhaust and heat loss was lower, by having to hear up water, you are wasting energy.

 

On the basis it seems like a nice idea however.

[Mokele]

It's really simple to show why it won't work: where does the energy come from? You have a vapor going in, it gets compressed by the force of other pistons, and the pressure then forces it to expand. But in doing so, it *loses* energy to entropy and friction, so with each piston-pump you'd get less and less power out of it, until the whole system just stopped.

 

At the very core of any engine is the principle of turning chemical energy into heat, which can be used to do work. Without a source of chemical energy (wood, gas, hydrogen, whatever), where will the energy come from?

 

Mokele

[drz]

Sorry, didn't read the whole post, short on time. But they actually do run water in engines. The particular trick is called "water injection". There was a thread around here somewhere about it. If I remember correctly, it helps cooling head components and pistons, plus, increases the oxygen by a bit. It also allows you to run a lower octane gas in higher compression engines.

 

They do this on gasoline engines as well.

 

Something that may be of interest, they also do "propane injection" for desiels which functions alot like NOS for gas engines.

[nomadd22]

Water injection is just another scam. Water injected into the fuel will violently explode into steam when the spark ignites the mixture. Mecahnics use it sometimes to try to clean carbon out of the cylinders with the shockwaves. The pressure trying to keep the water liquid is insignificant compared to the thousands of degrees it gets heated to during the fuel/air explosion.

[Guest northwolf]

A German university has an emulsion that provides 30% water in Diesel. This mixture cuts down on emissions big time. the price of diesel fuel would be the same and no modifications to diesel engines are neded!

[lethalfang]

Water cannot be used as fuel. Laws of thermodynamics. Among all the molecules that can be made from hydrogens and oxygens, water is the most stable (lowest free energy) form.

[Callipygous]

you guys all seem to think he means to use just water as fuel, thats not the impression i got from the post. sorry if this is bogus, but this is what i got out of it:

 

if you run it on diesel the whole thing gets really friggen hot. then if you inject some water into it the water should turn to steam due to warming up a few hundred degrees c. cools down the piston a little, one more explosion without using up any more fuel. the energy doesnt come from no where, its using the heat energy that is wasted heating up the piston. you still have to use fuel to keep it hot, but you can occasionally use water to take advantage of the heat thats being wasted.

[YT2095]

the addition of Cerium Oxide to deisel fuel will be widely in use soon too, it improves the efficiency some 5%! no engine mods are needed either

[weknowthewor]

nice to read.....

[chilehed]

Hi.

Give this a look :

http://www.dave-cushman.net/misc/mannject.html

 

Miguel

Leyland A70-powered house-truck (Solex carb)

The 1966 2l motor, CR 6:1, could cruise this heavy vehicle comfortably at no more than 45 mph. Having settled onto this cruising condition, with stable temperature etc., the former military aviator barked the order for his wife to remove the clothes-peg from the plastic water-pipe.

Their heads were pinned back onto the quilted headboard, their facial features hideously distorted by massive "g" forces; able to move only their eyeballs, they beheld in the rear-vision mirrors blue smoke billowing from the rear tyres as, at unchanged throttle, The Silver Snail spurted up to 55 mph

.

Bulls**t...

[K@meleon]

Hi.

Give this a look :

http://www.dave-cushman.net/misc/mannject.html

 

Miguel

 

Did someone actually read this link before making up a theory why it wouldn't work? It worked for petrol engines, why not for a diesel? Perhaps not really the way the original post suggested, but it does improve the combustion for petrol engines. If we manage to improve the combustion of diesel the same way, than we would increase fuel efficiency.. And water is cheap

[Rocket Man]

i reckon someone should build an engine block with a sterling cycle built in.

BMW has a steam assist prototype on the way, it heats water using the heat from the exhaust gas.