Commander Posted February 18, 2015 Posted February 18, 2015 The benefits of Religious Attitude over Logical or Scientific thinking ! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There is a frcas and argument which ends up in a break of Relationship. There is no further continuance of this Relationship from the Logical and Scientific point of view. But as taught in Religion there is a way of Continuance. Anger and Reconciliation…22"But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother shall be guilty before the court; and whoever says to his brother, 'You good-for-nothing,' shall be guilty before the supreme court; and whoever says, 'You fool,' shall be guilty enough to go into the fiery hell. 23"Therefore if you are presenting your offering at the altar, and there remember that your brother has something against you, 24leave your offering there before the altar and go; first be reconciled to your brother, and then come and present your offering.… Matthew 5:23
Phi for All Posted February 18, 2015 Posted February 18, 2015 Can you define "religious attitude"? I have a hard time getting past all the strong belief with no support for it.
swansont Posted February 18, 2015 Posted February 18, 2015 I have a hard time believing science has nothing to say on the benefits of mending a relationship. 1
Commander Posted February 18, 2015 Author Posted February 18, 2015 Can you define "religious attitude"? I have a hard time getting past all the strong belief with no support for it. Religious Attitude mandates a Belief in a Super Power Creator God ! As far as I understand Science it does not believe in this despite God Particle. -1
Phi for All Posted February 18, 2015 Posted February 18, 2015 Religious Attitude mandates a Belief in a Super Power Creator God ! As far as I understand Science it does not believe in this despite God Particle. Science isn't a good tool to use with "belief". Science uses a methodology designed to minimize the dependence on belief without support. Why do you get to mandate anything for anybody? Are you saying people can't be religious without believing in your SPCG? You have misunderstood the God Particle reference. It's an inappropriate nickname that got attached to the Higgs boson, similar to how the Big Bang Theory got it's inappropriate nickname. It has absolutely nothing to do with god(s). 1
Commander Posted February 18, 2015 Author Posted February 18, 2015 I have a hard time believing science has nothing to say on the benefits of mending a relationship. I agree that Psychology and Management too can play a part in mending any relationship ! Perhaps such Relationship Processes have not been given due emphasis. But always that aspect of Faith on the Creator God and resultant Effect on the Behavior of the involved Players who believe in it might not be replicated by Science which does not accept this God Phenomenon. Therefore that X Factor might be missing from the equivalent Scientific Process. -1
swansont Posted February 18, 2015 Posted February 18, 2015 Religious Attitude mandates a Belief in a Super Power Creator God ! As far as I understand Science it does not believe in this despite God Particle. Science is agnostic. To borrow from Laplace, we have no need of that hypothesis; if it can't be scientifically established, it can't be part of a model. 1
Commander Posted February 18, 2015 Author Posted February 18, 2015 Science isn't a good tool to use with "belief". Science uses a methodology designed to minimize the dependence on belief without support. Why do you get to mandate anything for anybody? Are you saying people can't be religious without believing in your SPCG? You have misunderstood the God Particle reference. It's an inappropriate nickname that got attached to the Higgs boson, similar to how the Big Bang Theory got it's inappropriate nickname. It has absolutely nothing to do with god(s). I agree I was wrong about God Particle if that is what it is. I tried to define Religious Attitude as asked, but I admit that in different Religions such Attitudes could also be different and some may not serve any purpose !
swansont Posted February 18, 2015 Posted February 18, 2015 I agree that Psychology and Management too can play a part in mending any relationship ! Perhaps such Relationship Processes have not been given due emphasis. But always that aspect of Faith on the Creator God and resultant Effect on the Behavior of the involved Players who believe in it might not be replicated by Science which does not accept this God Phenomenon. Therefore that X Factor might be missing from the equivalent Scientific Process. This sounds a lot like the argument that atheists can't be moral, since they don't believe in a supreme being. Which, of course, is a load of bollocks. Not being able to identify the motivation of a nonreligious person isn't the same as that motivation not existing.
Phi for All Posted February 18, 2015 Posted February 18, 2015 The only benefit I can see to a religious attitude over a scientific one is along the lines of "what you don't know can't hurt you", or "ignorance is bliss". Some people prefer to be cushioned from reality as opposed to observing it for what it is.
Commander Posted February 18, 2015 Author Posted February 18, 2015 (edited) Science is agnostic. To borrow from Laplace, we have no need of that hypothesis; if it can't be scientifically established, it can't be part of a model. You are Right. I gave you one + Click ! Science can not be otherwise and must be agnostic. Even Walker's Model has to be agnostic. Soul, Conscience , Empathy , Morality etc are hard to specify in Scientific Terms or Models to benefits Group of Particles Clinging together and called Humans all travelling en block along with the Surroundings in terrific Speed which gives them the Mass and Gravitational Effects ! This sounds a lot like the argument that atheists can't be moral, since they don't believe in a supreme being. Which, of course, is a load of bollocks. Not being able to identify the motivation of a nonreligious person isn't the same as that motivation not existing. Atheists and Believers have to be different but who succeeds or is better depends on what they achieve in real life or the heights they actually scale ! A tall order for both. However an Atheist can Commit Suicide without feeling Guilty about it but a Believer can not ! That is the advantage an Atheist has over a Believer ! The only benefit I can see to a religious attitude over a scientific one is along the lines of "what you don't know can't hurt you", or "ignorance is bliss". Some people prefer to be cushioned from reality as opposed to observing it for what it is. Man can not even Observe Everything. He does not have the wherewithal ! If there is indeed a Super Power Man can not necessarily comprehend it too ! Only a preposterous Man can believe that he was created in the Image of the Creator. Because MAN is so insignificant compared to the whole Universe which perhaps has more Superior Living forms ! Edited February 18, 2015 by Commander
swansont Posted February 18, 2015 Posted February 18, 2015 However an Atheist can Commit Suicide without feeling Guilty about it but a Believer can not ! That is the advantage an Atheist has over a Believer ! Not the best sales pitch for atheism… 2
dimreepr Posted February 18, 2015 Posted February 18, 2015 Only a preposterous Man can believe that he was created in the Image of the Creator. Because MAN is so insignificant compared to the whole Universe which perhaps has more Superior Living forms ! Yet the basic tenant of almost all religions is, 'mankind is special' in one way or another. Its science that suggests mankind is insignificant in comparison to the universe.
Phi for All Posted February 18, 2015 Posted February 18, 2015 Man can not even Observe Everything. He does not have the wherewithal ! Are you arguing that, because we can't observe everything, we can't explain anything with science? If there is indeed a Super Power Man can not necessarily comprehend it too ! That doesn't support the existence of god(s). Only a preposterous Man can believe that he was created in the Image of the Creator. Because MAN is so insignificant compared to the whole Universe which perhaps has more Superior Living forms ! I don't understand why "perhaps" is enough to relegate humans to insignificance in your perspective, when reality shows that we're the only species capable of leaving their own home planet. Reality shows that Earth is the only planet that has intelligent life. I think we're absolutely the most amazing species from the most amazing planet, and I can support that with evidence.
John Cuthber Posted February 18, 2015 Posted February 18, 2015 There is a frcas and argument which ends up in a break of Relationship. There is no further continuance of this Relationship from the Logical and Scientific point of view. Just plain wrong. The logical point of view is to realise that friends come and go, but enemies accumulate; so it makes sense to be reconciled. How arrogant does someone have to be to post something that, in effect says " I don't understand something; so it must be impossible"? As far as I can tell the only advantage to the religious point of view is that it lest you be really lazy about explaining things. Whatever the question, the answer is "Goddidit" 1
Phi for All Posted February 18, 2015 Posted February 18, 2015 I forgot about the most important benefit of a religious attitude over reason and rational thinking. If people believe what I say without question, I can get them to do almost anything. If I can get them to call it faith, then God will punish them if they don't. If you want people to be too ignorant to challenge your authority, a religious attitude is a powerful tool. 1
Strange Posted February 18, 2015 Posted February 18, 2015 The benefits of Religious Attitude over Logical or Scientific thinking ! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There is a frcas and argument which ends up in a break of Relationship. There is no further continuance of this Relationship from the Logical and Scientific point of view. But as taught in Religion there is a way of Continuance. Alternatively, you could read Leviticus and decide to take vengeance against the person who has offended you. That is the nice thing about religion, you can use it to justify absolutely anything: war or peace; revenge or forgiveness; eating or not eating certain foods ... 1
Commander Posted February 19, 2015 Author Posted February 19, 2015 (edited) Alternatively, you could read Leviticus and decide to take vengeance against the person who has offended you. That is the nice thing about religion, you can use it to justify absolutely anything: war or peace; revenge or forgiveness; eating or not eating certain foods ... You have a point ! Not the best sales pitch for atheism… swansont : Yes, I agree. Atheism does not have any rosy prospectus ! Yet the basic tenant of almost all religions is, 'mankind is special' in one way or another. Its science that suggests mankind is insignificant in comparison to the universe. Mankind is certainly Special ! But I doubt [and agree with Science] that they are better than every other Species that may be out there ......... Are you arguing that, because we can't observe everything, we can't explain anything with science? That doesn't support the existence of god(s). I don't understand why "perhaps" is enough to relegate humans to insignificance in your perspective, when reality shows that we're the only species capable of leaving their own home planet. Reality shows that Earth is the only planet that has intelligent life. I think we're absolutely the most amazing species from the most amazing planet, and I can support that with evidence. No, we can and do observe many and explore fabulously. But I can never feel or be part of something even 1 Light year away - that is be yond my Capacity and must do with just observing and theorizing. That reinforces my License to Theorize ! >>>>>>>>>>>>> We thought earth was flat and killed those who opposed the idea that earth was the Center of the Universe. Have we now come far enough from that Stand and Closer enough to TRUTH ? Yes, I agree - I can not prove or give a mathematical Equation for the existence of God. I couldn't disprove either ! >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Just plain wrong. The logical point of view is to realise that friends come and go, but enemies accumulate; so it makes sense to be reconciled. How arrogant does someone have to be to post something that, in effect says " I don't understand something; so it must be impossible"? As far as I can tell the only advantage to the religious point of view is that it lest you be really lazy about explaining things. Whatever the question, the answer is "Goddidit" You have a point ! But what is this arrogance you are talking about ? Edited February 19, 2015 by Commander
ajb Posted February 19, 2015 Posted February 19, 2015 As far as I understand Science it does not believe in this despite God Particle. The what?
swansont Posted February 19, 2015 Posted February 19, 2015 swansont : Yes, I agree. Atheism does not have any rosy prospectus ! I don't agree. I rather doubt that the religion-induced guilt of suicide plays any role in people becoming atheists. The arrogance and naiveté of proselytizers probably has more impact. But that doesn't mean that there are no other reasons. 1
Phi for All Posted February 19, 2015 Posted February 19, 2015 No, we can and do observe many and explore fabulously. But I can never feel or be part of something even 1 Light year away - that is be yond my Capacity and must do with just observing and theorizing. That reinforces my License to Theorize ! OK, but that doesn't answer my question. Given all the evidence for scientific explanations, a preponderance of evidence in most cases, evidence which should reflect reality and give a person more confidence and trust in those explanations, why do religious people seem to put more emphasis on faith, where all you have are emotionally charged beliefs with nothing rational to support them? Why do people insist their god cured their loved one of cancer, but ignore the fact that no god EVER cured a loved one of an amputation? The level of denial is very high in many religions. Most of the books they follow are contradictory and vague, open to multiple interpretations, which are seemingly used to interpret every situation in whatever manner is needed at the time. The biggest benefit of religion over science seems to be less thinking. 2
John Cuthber Posted February 19, 2015 Posted February 19, 2015 But what is this arrogance you are talking about ? The arrogance I was talking about was yours. It is extremely arrogant to say "There is no further continuance of this Relationship from the Logical and Scientific point of view." since you clearly don't know enough about logic and science to comment on it, yet you choose to belittle it. If you did understand logic you would have realised that your claim simply isn't true.
Commander Posted February 20, 2015 Author Posted February 20, 2015 The arrogance I was talking about was yours. It is extremely arrogant to say "There is no further continuance of this Relationship from the Logical and Scientific point of view." since you clearly don't know enough about logic and science to comment on it, yet you choose to belittle it. If you did understand logic you would have realised that your claim simply isn't true. Wrong inference and deductions by you Also false accusation This sounds a lot like the argument that atheists can't be moral, since they don't believe in a supreme being. Which, of course, is a load of bollocks. Not being able to identify the motivation of a nonreligious person isn't the same as that motivation not existing. The language you have used shows your character OK, but that doesn't answer my question. Given all the evidence for scientific explanations, a preponderance of evidence in most cases, evidence which should reflect reality and give a person more confidence and trust in those explanations, why do religious people seem to put more emphasis on faith, where all you have are emotionally charged beliefs with nothing rational to support them? Why do people insist their god cured their loved one of cancer, but ignore the fact that no god EVER cured a loved one of an amputation? The level of denial is very high in many religions. Most of the books they follow are contradictory and vague, open to multiple interpretations, which are seemingly used to interpret every situation in whatever manner is needed at the time. The biggest benefit of religion over science seems to be less thinking. The fact is : Simply having a Strong Unflinching FAITH itself motivates the believer and creates a cooperative environment and pattern of behavior which increases the chances of cure of diseases etc and Miracles do happen while doubting Thomases remain where they are and may deteriorate further. This is where the less intelligent and less scientific score over others. Though, actually every one of us [composed of different particles hurtling through space] will eventually reach similar ends whether Believing or Not !
Strange Posted February 20, 2015 Posted February 20, 2015 Simply having a Strong Unflinching FAITH itself motivates the believer and creates a cooperative environment Or it leads to hatred, conflict and war. 1
swansont Posted February 20, 2015 Posted February 20, 2015 Simply having a Strong Unflinching FAITH itself motivates the believer and creates a cooperative environment and pattern of behavior which increases the chances of cure of diseases etc and Miracles do happen while doubting Thomases remain where they are and may deteriorate further. What happens when one two people have strong, unflinching faith in different ideologies? Do you have any evidence that backs this up? Religious institutions that have cured diseases, exceeding the efforts of scientists? Anything to back up the claim that non-religious people can't cooperate and can't be motivated? (A ludicrous claim, because we see it happening all the time) The language you have used shows your character Should I take this to mean you have no actual rebuttal for the statement?
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