Is a Condensed/Contained Explosion Just as, if not more powerful than an explosion of similar size?

[TheStudiousResearcher]

Hello, I have been debating a lot of things with a friend of mine recently and one of the things he brought up was about this idea that explosions being contained (by a form of gravity well around the explosion itself molding the explosion, molding it to a certain shape or form, to go into direct detail), and the resulting explosion that is condensed or contained to a smaller size (for example, an explosion on Earth being smaller than the explosion in space due to the less gravitational intake holding the explosion back) is just as destructive as an explosion of equal size, by his words alone.

 

I on the other hand don't see that; since an explosion is always weighed down more on Earth due more gravity intake reduces the magnitude, speed, and pretty much overall power of an explosion and argue that the explosion that is condensed/contained by a form of theoretical gravity well would actually weaken the magnitude and lower the destructive power of an explosion, even if normally said explosion would be much larger, faster, and overall more destructively powerful if said explosion WAS NOT condensed or contained by this theoretical gravity well.

 

But I would like this debate to be settled seeing as how both of us were put at an impasse of sorts due to the logistical nature of both of our arguments and would like to know who is in the right here and who is correct. Will accept answers with good justification of who is right and who isn't.

[swansont]

Do you have any more detail than that?

 

If you had a kg of TNT, you get about 4.2 MJ of energy from it. Let's look at the extreme example — vertical confinement. The amount of potential energy from gravity for shooting the entire 1kg, say, 4 km into the air is mgh, approximately 4*10*1000 = 40kJ of energy, which is ~1% of the explosion's yield. So I would say that the gravitational confinement of the explosion is minimal.

[TheStudiousResearcher]

Do you have any more detail than that?

 

If you had a kg of TNT, you get about 4.2 MJ of energy from it. Let's look at the extreme example — vertical confinement. The amount of potential energy from gravity for shooting the entire 1kg, say, 4 km into the air is mgh, approximately 4*10*1000 = 40kJ of energy, which is ~1% of the explosion's yield. So I would say that the gravitational confinement of the explosion is minimal.

 

An example; To literally scale a 100 ton explosion to the size of say a 1 ton explosion.

 

He argues that with gravity somehow weighing the explosion to a tiny size like so will still be as powerful because it would essentially be a miniature explosion that would cause great damage to the target; (essentially creating a force of gravity inside the epicenter of the explosion and throwing it or somehow launching it into the target), but the surrounding area around the target is untouched and this contained/condensed explosion is more powerful due to normal circumstances; the explosion would be larger to around 100 tons.

 

However I argue that even with the explosion being condensed or contained somehow with a theoretical gravity well, the gravity weighing it down would make it just as useful as using a 1 ton explosion on the target due to the gravity well holding the explosion back. Similar to how explosions differ in space and on the surface of Earth.

 

Basically that.

[studiot]

I don't fully understand what you are trying to compare.

 

There are two separate 'players' in an explosion.

 

The active explosive material

 

The passive target material.

 

The progress of an explosion depends in part on the transfer of energy from the reactants to the target.

 

So which part are you debating as affected by gravity?

[TheStudiousResearcher]

I don't fully understand what you are trying to compare.

 

There are two separate 'players' in an explosion.

 

The active explosive material

 

The passive target material.

 

The progress of an explosion depends in part on the transfer of energy from the reactants to the target.

 

So which part are you debating as affected by gravity?

 

Both me and him are both debating the explosion itself, no matter the target material or explosive material. That was the general idea.

[studiot]

Are you really saying you can have an explosion without any explosive?

 

 

Very confused.

 

[StringJunky]

Are you really saying you can have an explosion without any explosive?

 

 

Very confused.

 

No, he's saying the type of explosive used doesn't matter..

[TheStudiousResearcher]

No, he's saying the type of explosive used doesn't matter..

 

Yes, this is pretty much what I am speaking of, the explosion is more important than the explosive in this predicament.

[swansont]

You don't create gravity in an explosion.

[studiot]

 

The studious researcher

Yes, this is pretty much what I am speaking of, the explosion is more important than the explosive in this predicament.

 

String Junky

No, he's saying the type of explosive used doesn't matter..

 

 

 

 

So why is it so unreasonable for me to say I don't understand why it doesn't matter

Or what it doesn't matter to.

 

Nor do I reaaly know what you the OP means by an explosion.

 

An explosion, in scientific terms, is a reaction, chemical or nuclear, that follows certain well defined mathematical reaction kinetic equations. There are several to choose from. Equally it follows certain equally well defined thermodynamic equations in terms of the progress of the reaction front. None of these equations contain gravitational terms.

 

If the OP wishes to discuss these I would expect to see these equations stated with additional terms to cover whatever gravitational effect is proposed.

 

Instead I see some waffle about wells.

 

In fact explosion reactions may be expected to be influenced by external gravitational fields, both the reactants and products will be subject to this. Even gamma rays produced by a nuclear reaction will be influenced by a gravitational field (whether strongly enough to be significant is another matter).

[TheStudiousResearcher]

You don't create gravity in an explosion.

 

I know, but I am simply saying that my friends' theoretical explosion made from just a theoretical gravity well at the epicenter of an explosion; making a 100 ton explosion equal to the size a tennis ball due to the explosion being compressed or condensed by this theoretical gravity well smack dab in the center. (This is as easily as I can explain it with even making changes to the original notion to make things easier.)

 

 

 

So why is it so unreasonable for me to say I don't understand why it doesn't matter

Or what it doesn't matter to.

 

Nor do I reaaly know what you the OP means by an explosion.

 

An explosion, in scientific terms, is a reaction, chemical or nuclear, that follows certain well defined mathematical reaction kinetic equations. There are several to choose from. Equally it follows certain equally well defined thermodynamic equations in terms of the progress of the reaction front. None of these equations contain gravitational terms.

 

If the OP wishes to discuss these I would expect to see these equations stated with additional terms to cover whatever gravitational effect is proposed.

 

Instead I see some waffle about wells.

 

In fact explosion reactions may be expected to be influenced by external gravitational fields, both the reactants and products will be subject to this. Even gamma rays produced by a nuclear reaction will be influenced by a gravitational field (whether strongly enough to be significant is another matter).

 

Because the legitimate weapon or natural cause for the explosion isn't relevant to the question, an explosion is a largely blanket term which is very much the case as even you know this, but seeing as how the explosion is more centered toward the actual act of the explosion itself more than the idea of the explosive or natural cause of it.

 

My friend believes that these gravity contained explosions (somehow with a gravity well in the epicenter); can become future weaponized projectiles due to their lethal nature and that because of the fact that under normal conditions, the explosion itself would be catastrophically disasterous, however I argue that since the explosion is already being weighed down by this Gravity well at the epicenter of said explosion makes the overall destructive power useless, if he wishes to hurl a 1 ton explosive at his target, he may as well and not waste anymore TNT than needed be for the attack.

 

Basically; I want to know who is right or who is wrong.

[studiot]

 

Basically; I want to know who is right or who is wrong.

 

 

I'm sorry but neither of you are talking any sense of physics that I can understand, and repetition does not make it any clearer.

You need to find and use the correct words if others are going to understand you.

[Delta1212]

Short of a black hole, I can't think of any gravity well that is going to completely "contain" an explosion. Your question isn't well formed.

[hoola]

yes, it would seem if an explosion of sufficient energy would create a black hole. Conservation of energy seems to indicate that some of the material's energy is converted to gravitational energy and then leaked back out long term. In this case, any containment, even magnetic fields would be sucked in if it is within or near the event horizon, thus ending the experiment. If the containment is well outside the horizon, it seems an area of increasing temperature would develop between the containment walls and the horizon from the hawking radiation. It does seem a small explosion with a reflective containment would cause the explosive material to react more efficiently, with less material left over but with a higher temperature peak within.

Edited March 1, 2015 by hoola

[swansont]

 

I know, but I am simply saying that my friends' theoretical explosion made from just a theoretical gravity well at the epicenter of an explosion; making a 100 ton explosion equal to the size a tennis ball due to the explosion being compressed or condensed by this theoretical gravity well smack dab in the center. (This is as easily as I can explain it with even making changes to the original notion to make things easier.)

 

 

If your idea isn't based in physics, you can't use physics to decide who's right.