What came first bacteria or bacteriophage?

[Ppa]

In evolution terms what came first?

[Robittybob1]

In evolution terms what came first?

What does your logic tell you?

[Ppa]

Bacteria because bacteriophages depend on them to live, but bacteriophages are more basic in structure

[StringJunky]

Bacteria because bacteriophages depend on them to live, but bacteriophages are more basic in structure

Is the bacteriphage's structural simplicity a reason why it infects bacteria?

[Ppa]

This is not actually a homework question, but I thought this may be the best forum to use to help me and others maybe understand the current thinking.

 

I am a non scientist who is trying to get my head around some research that my father did before he died a few years ago. My father created a patent for a vaccination against a rheumatoid arthritis and other auto immune diseases. He started to work on a new patent which related to bacteria and bacteriophages. Before he died my father asked me to take his work forward, I have approached a few people but no one is interested in reading the information I have. They do not give a reason why. So I am trying to understand the science behind it to see whether what he is saying is scientifically sound.

 

My understanding which may be wrong is that the current thinking is that bacteria came first and if so I believe my father questioned that.

[StringJunky]

..My understanding which may be wrong is that the current thinking is that bacteria came first and if so I believe my father questioned that.

A bacteriophage is a virus, and so, needs a host to make copies of itself due to it lacking the means to do so. What was his reasoning?

[Ppa]

this is where I find it difficult to understand because it relates to the formation of rna and dna but he seemed to think that in my non scientific terms that the bacteriophage created the bacteria to ensure its survival. He has created a diagram showing how he thinks it happened. I do not have it with me but will post details later. He also had ideas about how to test this theory.

[StringJunky]

That sounds interesting. A mod will probably move this to Speculations. The little bit I know, I don't think it's done deal which came first as abiogenesis is still pretty young as a subject. The evolution of bacteria and viruses is getting very close to the first emergence of life which is what abiogenesis is about.

 

Edited: Corrected wrong link

Edited March 13, 2015 by StringJunky

[Ppa]

I now have the information now would you like me to post this in a different section? I do not want to mislead.

[StringJunky]

I now have the information now would you like me to post this in a different section? I do not want to mislead.

No, leave it here. They'll move the thread if they want to. You don't need to do anything.

[Ppa]

My father said as follows

 

Phages have always been described as bacterial parasites, but in the natural order of evolutionary progress it is not possible for the bacteria to arrive on the planet, (unless they were put there by a higher power), before Deoxyribonucleic acid (DNA), or DNA to arrive before Ribonucleic acid (RNA), or RNA to arrive before nucleic acids. Therefore the order of development should be, with perhaps a few steps in between:

 

Nucleic acids forming RNA

 

(single stranded) ssRNA Phage----------------ssRNA Phage

 

(double stranded) dsRNA Phage--------------dsRNA Phage

 

 

ssDNA Phage---------------------ssDNA Phage

 

dsDNA Phage--------------------ssDNA Phages

 

 

dsRNA Plasmids dsDNA

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bacterial cell

 

 

 

 

Sorry I missed a bit. He also says

 

The two life cycles of the bacteriophage

 

1. The lytic stage to synthesize new and more developed viruses leading to animal viruses

 

2.

2. The lysogenic stage for the evolution of bacteria and setting the basis of present day immunity and drug resistance in bacteria and viruses and animal cells.

 

This is point 2 above.

Edited March 13, 2015 by Ppa

[pavelcherepan]

or DNA to arrive before Ribonucleic acid (RNA), or RNA to arrive before nucleic acids.

 

It's been a while since I've sudied abiogenesis, but is it really necessary for DNA to evolve from RNA? Somehow that doesn't ring a bell...

[Ppa]

www.diffen.com/difference/DNA_vs_RNA

 

 

I am not a scientist, but do we know the answer? The site above suggests that there is a theory that it may be the case.

 

My father's research not only involved evolution, but the role bactereophages in causing disease, which was where he started.

 

I am trying to find someone who will help take his research forward if it is scientifically sound and to date I have not heard anything or read anything that says it is not.

 

Any suggestions? I have a book that he wrote and some of his notes and letters to the patent attorney. He also had a lot of ideas for research to prove what he thought. Many are relatively inexpensive. Because it is a novel idea surely it is worth some consideration. If he is right it would help a lot of people with diseases of unknown origin to include cancer.