Moontanman Posted March 15, 2015 Posted March 15, 2015 OK so what did they make their toroidal cocoons from now? Are they just parked there or were they made there? They can be moved very slowly with things like magnetic sails or ion drives, look at it like it's a very slow motorhome... Where did they pick that "fissionable material" up from? There is a considerable amount of fissionable material in the rocks and metals mixed with ices in the Oort cloud but fusion technology would your best bet since both deuterium and helium 3 should be relatively easily available...
Robittybob1 Posted March 15, 2015 Posted March 15, 2015 They can be moved very slowly with things like magnetic sails or ion drives, look at it like it's a very slow motorhome... There is a considerable amount of fissionable material in the rocks and metals mixed with ices in the Oort cloud but fusion technology would your best bet since both deuterium and helium 3 should be relatively easily available... Oh you meant "fussionable" material rather than fissionable!
Moontanman Posted March 15, 2015 Posted March 15, 2015 Oh you meant "fussionable" material rather than fissionable! Well, no I didn't mention fissionable but EdEarl did and fissionable isotopes of heavy metals should be available in the Oort cloud.
iNow Posted March 15, 2015 Posted March 15, 2015 Bacteria can survive in conditions that no complex organism can tolerate, but in some 2.5 billion years from now the Earth would no longer be able to sustain life as we know it and all these bacteria will die off. On the other hand, intelligent life, while being more vulnerable to external factors on a small scale can propagate farther, can build spaceships, colonise other planets and star systems and so is extremely important as a means of preserving life in the Universe.Possibly, but it strikes me that you're not terribly clearly on the time scales involved here, or what 2.5 billion years really means. Humans have only existed for maybe one or two hundred thousand years, in civilizations for only about 10,000. Millions or billions (as you have posited) is even less likely and is a bit of a nonstarter, IMO.
Robittybob1 Posted March 16, 2015 Posted March 16, 2015 Well, no I didn't mention fissionable but EdEarl did and fissionable isotopes of heavy metals should be available in the Oort cloud. The Oort Cloud is such a long way out, even if there was a lot of fissionable material out there the scattered nature of the Oort Cloud would make processing it very difficult.
EdEarl Posted March 16, 2015 Posted March 16, 2015 The Oort Cloud is such a long way out, even if there was a lot of fissionable material out there the scattered nature of the Oort Cloud would make processing it very difficult. Replicators with super intelligence should be able to make anything from nano to super machines, designed specifically for any job. Although objects are very far apart in space, replicators (machines) have indefinite life times and could presumably recover useful materials from anything they come across. At first, they might visit a moon or small planet to gather required resources. Afterward, I'd think they would only need replacement supplies, and visiting a comet occasionally would supply most needs. BTW, we know fission power is viable, but whether fusion will ever supply power successfully is unknown. Thus, I suggested fissionable material to supply heat and power. If fusion becomes viable, then the replicators would use whichever is better. They might even perfect antimatter power generation and use it.
StringJunky Posted March 16, 2015 Posted March 16, 2015 One can do anything when they set their imagination free.
iNow Posted March 17, 2015 Posted March 17, 2015 BTW, we know fission power is viable, but whether fusion will ever supply power successfully is unknown. FYI - We've begun building a large-scale fusion power plant in southern France: https://www.iter.org/proj#history
EdEarl Posted March 17, 2015 Posted March 17, 2015 FYI - We've begun building a large-scale fusion power plant in southern France: https://www.iter.org/proj#history Ten years of construction and twenty of operation sounds to me like it will not be economically successful, even if it is technically. At UT Austin, they built a Tokamak and talked about viability, perhaps in 50 years. IIRC, that was about 50 years ago. I'm skeptical.
pavelcherepan Posted March 18, 2015 Posted March 18, 2015 (edited) Possibly, but it strikes me that you're not terribly clearly on the time scales involved here, or what 2.5 billion years really means. Humans have only existed for maybe one or two hundred thousand years, in civilizations for only about 10,000. Millions or billions (as you have posited) is even less likely and is a bit of a nonstarter, IMO. I'm a geologist and so I believe I have a pretty good grip on geological time scales I do realize that it's a long shot to suggest that humanity will last for millions or billions of years, I was just stating that in some 2.5 billion years the life on Earth will end. Completely wiped from the face of the Universe as if it had never existed in the first place. On the other hand if humanity manages to settle some colonies on other planets or in other star systems and given the fact that as was correctly pointed out that every one of us is a mini Noah's ark carrying several kilograms of symbiotic/parasitic organisms, then life as we know it would be able to continue somewhere else. And you don't need billions or millions of years for that, probably some thousands of years may well be enough. Edited March 18, 2015 by pavelcherepan 1
Moontanman Posted March 18, 2015 Posted March 18, 2015 The Oort Cloud is such a long way out, even if there was a lot of fissionable material out there the scattered nature of the Oort Cloud would make processing it very difficult. I'm not so sure, a Oort cloud object a few tens of miles in diameter should contain a considerable amount of "stuff" but I still think fusion will be necessary to actively access that material and process it.
Robittybob1 Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 I'm not so sure, a Oort cloud object a few tens of miles in diameter should contain a considerable amount of "stuff" but I still think fusion will be necessary to actively access that material and process it. True, if intelligent beings needed the fissionable material to survive, the material being 4.6 billion years old is going to mean most of the radioactive isotopes have nearly all converted to lead or to a more stable isotope by now. It would have been good pickings 4.6 billion years ago, but now things are quite run down. So if you reckon you need fissionable material. Where are you going to get that? A comet, might be a good source of heavy water but you need equipment to process that. So are you driven back into a gravitation well to get the metal for the equipment in the first place?
Moontanman Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 (edited) True, if intelligent beings needed the fissionable material to survive, the material being 4.6 billion years old is going to mean most of the radioactive isotopes have nearly all converted to lead or to a more stable isotope by now. It would have been good pickings 4.6 billion years ago, but now things are quite run down. So if you reckon you need fissionable material. Where are you going to get that? A comet, might be a good source of heavy water but you need equipment to process that. So are you driven back into a gravitation well to get the metal for the equipment in the first place? Seems to be a good bit of fissionable material on still on the Earth but it is concentrated. However comets, while being mostly ice, do contain metals, they would pretty much have to and a short jaunt to the asteroid belt would get you all the metal you need concentrated by the evaporation of most of the ice. I would posit that metal would be a very small fraction of the building materials for these colonies, carbon being the most important and compounds of carbon, Boron might be of some import as would be Silicon but the lions share of building materials would be carbon. Edited March 19, 2015 by Moontanman
Robittybob1 Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 (edited) Seems to be a good bit of fissionable material on still on the Earth but it is concentrated. However comets, while being mostly ice, do contain metals, they would pretty much have to and a short jaunt to the asteroid belt would get you all the metal you need concentrated by the evaporation of most of the ice. I would posit that metal would be a very small fraction of the building materials for these colonies, carbon being the most important and compounds of carbon, Boron might be of some import as would be Silicon but the lions share of building materials would be carbon. Concentrated in centrifuges! Evaporate a comet??? Run it past the Sun a few times! Problem seems to be hanging on to them, their intrinsic gravity is so minimal, you can't just dig into them. It would be very energy consuming to evaporate a comet in deep space. Edited March 19, 2015 by Robittybob1
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