halsienkiewicz1 Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 So the question is, if we live in a determined universe, which follows classical laws of action-reaction, in which consciousness (an ability of the mind to sit above space-time and override action-reaction) is an illusion, does this suggest that there is no relationship between us deciding to go to the moon, calculating how to do this and us landing on the moon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 The relationship is one of cause and effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pavelcherepan Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 So the question is, if we live in a determined universe, which follows classical laws of action-reaction, in which consciousness (an ability of the mind to sit above space-time and override action-reaction) is an illusion, does this suggest that there is no relationship between us deciding to go to the moon, calculating how to do this and us landing on the moon? Could you please elaborate on consciousness sitting above space-time? I'm not sure how to relate consciousness with space, but it's definitely not independent from time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halsienkiewicz1 Posted March 18, 2015 Author Share Posted March 18, 2015 Could you please elaborate on consciousness sitting above space-time? I'm not sure how to relate consciousness with space, but it's definitely not independent from time. That Consciousness's relationship with time is a bigger question. This question really is about the agency of consciousness. Is it able to rise above the mechanics of classical physics, to observe, predict and test nature, then use this knowledge to interfere with the domino effect started by the big bang in order to impose the will of our mind, e.g., go to the moon, make a car, design and build a computer that actually works. Some consider a determined universe leaves no room for science or the accumulation of objective knowledge of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endy0816 Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Could simply be predetermined that we would do all that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta1212 Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Why are you assuming that consciousness stands apart from the rest and isn't just another falling domino? One domino falls and pushes us to want to go to the moon, that in turn pushes us to calculate how to do it, and that domino causes the landing to be successful. We're not above it all watching the line of dominos fall and debating about whether we can really change anything about the pattern they fall in. We're standing in the line ourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MigL Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Who says we live in a deterministic universe ? In case you hadn't noticed, there was a huge paradigm shift in the 1920s. Its called Quantum Mechanics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta1212 Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Who says we live in a deterministic universe ? In case you hadn't noticed, there was a huge paradigm shift in the 1920s. Its called Quantum Mechanics. Well there's that, too, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Some consider a determined universe leaves no room for science or the accumulation of objective knowledge of it. How does determinism stop people making measurements, talking to other people and passing on information? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halsienkiewicz1 Posted March 21, 2015 Author Share Posted March 21, 2015 Determinism within space-time means that one is merely responding to actions and reactions. It is a bottom-up phenomenon. A conscious analysis of patterns signals and ability to stand aside and look at the system perform rather than being victim of it. We can observe from an objective distance and predict and test. The results inform our decisions to play with space-time, interrupt what would normally be merely a domino effect from the big bang. It is a top down causation that explains our ability to manipulate our environment with the benefit of our imagination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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