Homicidal/Suicidal Pilots

[Airbrush]

Much has been said about the Germanwings co-pilot who coaxed the pilot out of the cockpit, so he could lock the door and crash the plane. What about his mental state? How often does a pilot, or bus driver, intentionally kill themselves AND their passengers? It seems like a severe hatred of other people, including himself. News report stated Andreas told his girl friend (or x girl friend?) that he was going to do something that will be remembered that will "change the system". What can this possibly mean? What change to the "system"?

 

http://www.nytimes.c...ubitz.html?_r=0

[Willie71]

I have engaged a discussion on this topic on another forum. I will copy/paste some of my comments. I am a Psychiatric Nurse with two decades experience in Forensic Psychiatry.

 

 

People who do these types of things don't have a "mental illness" in the regular sense. There is no diagnosis in the DSM-IV TR or the DSM-5 that has mass murder as a symptopm. I worked in forensic psychiatry for years. People who do these things are unique in their rationelle or reasoning, and the only person it makes sense to is themselves. From the little bit I know of him, as the reports are vague, I would query a narcissistic element, but research does not show that narcissistic insult results in aggression in most cases. So, regardless of the diagnosis, he is an atypical atypical. There may be elements of schyzotypical or avoidant personality traits as well. Even with the study that goes into serial killers, there is no set pattern that is typical, beyond the young white male, usually keeps to himself, never really thought much about him etc. type description.

 

Due to the rarity of mass murderers and serial killers, stats are unreliable. Funny how the last sentence, a continuation of the heterogeneity of these people raised offense.

Ethnicity and serial killer demographics in the U.S.

The racial demographics regarding serial killers are often subject to debate. In the United States, the majority of reported and investigated serial killers are white males, from a lower-to-middle-class background, usually in their late twenties to early thirties.[7][14] However, there are African American, Asian, and Hispanic (of any race) serial killers as well, and, according to the FBI, based on percentages of the U.S. population, whites are not more likely than other races to be serial killers.[14] Criminal profiler Pat Brown says serial killers are usually reported as white because the media typically focuses on "All-American" white and pretty female victims who were the targets of white male offenders, that crimes among minority offenders in urban communities, where crime rates are higher, are under-investigated, and that minority serial killers likely exist at the same ratios as white serial killers for the population. She believes that the myth that serial killers are always white might have become "truth" in some research fields due to the over-reporting of white serial killers in the media.[73]

According to some sources, the percentage of serial killers who are African American is estimated to be between 13 and 22 percent.[74][75] Another study has shown that 16 percent of serial killers are African American, what author Maurice Godwin describes as a "sizeable portion".[76] A 2014 Radford/FGCU Serial Killer Database annual statistics report showed that for the decades 1900–2010, the percentage of White serial killers was 52.1% while the percentage of African American serial killers was 40.3%.[41] Popular racial stereotypes about the lower intelligence of African-Americans, and the stereotype that serial killers are white males, may explain the media focus on serial killers that are white and the failure to adequately report on those that are black.[21]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_killer

In North America, it is more likely that a white male is going to be a serial killer than other groups, if only for the reason that there are more white males per capita.

Mass murderers are most likely to be white males, making up over 70% of the mass murderer population.

How about this:

http://bossip.com/698648/race-matters-s ... ial-group/

While the majority of all violent crimes are perpetuated by men, American mass murders in particular seem to be the territory of white men. The Encyclopedia of Murder and Violent Crime writes that, “Compared with assailants who kill but one victim, mass murderers are overwhelmingly likely to be male, [and] are far more likely to be white,” and the numbers prove it. According to Wikipedia, 75% of the rampage killings on US record were perpetrated by white males, as were 71% of massacres in schools, and 60% of workplace rampages – a seriously disproportionate number for the number of white males that make up the general population. Clearly, there is more at play here than the advantage of opportunity.

Historically, the focus on serial killers and mass murderers has been on the individual motives for the crimes, and little on the overarching trend. It’s plausible that the elevated social status of white males combined with isolation, desperation, opportunity, and mental illness has led the white men who have gone on rampages to make their pain felt by those around them in a very violent way.

Of course, it isn’t just male privilege that makes men more prone to violent crime than their female counterparts. From the time they are toddlers, men are socialized to express their emotions through violence. Western culture – and especially American culture – teaches boys that emotional intelligence and expression is worthless and effeminate, and that the acceptable masculine response to anger, sadness, and/or frustration is to act out physically. If this mentality is particularly deeply rooted in an individual man, he may find it incredibly difficult to form an emotional support system, leading to more self-inflicted and outwardly motivated violence among men.

 

Once you take others with you, it is less likely to be related to depression and suicide, and more likely to be related to martyrdom. I have only worked with one mass killer (I worked with youth, not adults- so even more rare) and when I did research on the issue, a lot of these guys combine feeling persecuted with a grandiose idea that they will sacrifice themselves to show society how bad things are, or to protect others from society. The internal conflict between the rage and not wanting to be like those who oppress them creates this bizarre martyr presentation.

 

Feel free to dispute anything I have listed, or discussed. Its an interesting topic, and even working in the field for many years, I know there is a lot more to be learned about the human mental state that causes these situations, and if there is any way to prevent them from happening. What I do know is that this is an atypical atypical type situation. Being depressed or suicidal is not the likely cause.

[Airbrush]

Thanks for posting that Willie. This is a very rare kind of event. When is the last time a pilot intentionally crashed a plane, killing at least 149 people? The attacks on 9-11 were different, they were on a mission fighting holy war against an evil nation, the USA. Al Qaeda wanted the notoriety for political purposes. Andreas Lubitz murder/suicide seems different. He wanted to punish people in general, along with himself. My question remains what did he mean by doing something memorable to change the system? It is probably a complicated delusion involving his narcissism. He means the "system" that has alienated him. And he was only 27 years old.

Edited March 30, 2015 by Airbrush

[StringJunky]

I think Andreas Lubitz is one of those one-offs, like Michael Ryan and Adam Lanza. There's not a lot we can do in predicting people like these. As they say: It's the quiet ones...

[swansont]

How often does a pilot, or bus driver, intentionally kill themselves AND their passengers?

 

I would venture to guess that this is one of the few times (and perhaps the first time) that this has happened. Which is one of the reasons that it's such big news.

 

There has already been a lot of backlash of the "how could you let this happen" sort, but it's really unprecedented. They've implemented a "never only have one person in the cockpit" rule which has justification beyond this incident, but I fear other protocols being put in place for security theater, as part of a long-standing misguided effort in that arena.

[Hans de Vries]

That's it. If out of hundreds of air crashes only two cases of pilots deliberately crashing their machines have been recorded (this one is the third) - then the chances of such an event happening are so low that no one takes it as a potential risk. There are probably more chances of a mid air collision (as the one over Uberlingen in 2002).

[Airbrush]

Never less than 2 persons in the cockpit is a good rule to follow. A camera won't hurt watching over pilots, bus drivers, or train engineers.

 

What is more scary is the prospect of expertly-designed bombs that cannot be detected.

Edited March 31, 2015 by Airbrush

[Willie71]

I think the only possible solution is for a retrofit that would allow mission control to override the pilot. If a terrorist attacks a control tower, same problem as a terrorist overriding security inside or outside the cockpit. The problem is, no matter where the last override it, that is the place the terrorist would focus on. It would be more difficult to take over a control tower than a single plane, simply based on available security.

[Klaynos]

There's a list here

 

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_by_pilot

 

There have been a few due to pilots on commercial airliners.

[Airbrush]

"...a retrofit that would allow mission control to override the pilot."

 

Good idea and it reminded me of an idea I had that all cars should be equipped with a device on the rear bumper that a police officer can zap with a disabling device slowing and stopping the fleeing car in a high-speed chase.

 

Thanks for the info on suicide by pilot. It sounds like flight 9525 must be the most lives taken in a single suicide by pilot event since 9-11-01. But 911 seems like "homicide by pilot" with the pilots' suicides only incidental to the homicide. Flight 9525 seems reversed, more like a narcissistic pilot suicide and the homicide part of it was only incidental to his suicide.

[Klaynos]

As with most commercial aviation accident causes, incidents are rare. It's impossible to deal with every eventuality.

[StringJunky]

As with most commercial aviation accident causes, incidents are rare. It's impossible to deal with every eventuality.

Yes, the take home from this incident is to always have two in the cockpit. Cameras on the pilots all the time is going too far; I wouldn't like it. Pilots are highly-trained professional people; they need to be treated like they are still. This sort of incident is like predicting when a particular atom is going to decay or gene is going to mutate; you can't.

[Hans de Vries]

I think it would be wiser to address the more common causes of air crashes first. Suicide of a pilot is not one of them.

[CasualKilla]

That pilot was a real piece of work, people like that should just kill themselv... wait. Nevermind.

 

Strange that some people make arrangements to minimize the impact of their death on their loved-ones, but them some asshats want to take the world down with them.

 

He was clearly mad at the world for something. Probably a racist that blames his inadequacies on immigrants and such. Then again, he seemed reasonably successful, it could have been a more deep rooted mental health problem.

Edited April 1, 2015 by CasualKilla