Vexen Posted March 31, 2015 Posted March 31, 2015 I still can't figure this forum business out. When I post a comment on this forum, it seems reasonable to me. However, more frequently than I'd like, my comments seem not only unreasonable to others but attract the attention of the moderators. For example, a comment I made yesterday got 4 thumbs down. The comments seemed fairly straightforward to me. I don't get it. So, how do I become the neutral guy and not the negative? Thanks 1
Spyman Posted March 31, 2015 Posted March 31, 2015 Try to post positive, polite and encouraging, funny posts may also be appreciated.
dimreepr Posted March 31, 2015 Posted March 31, 2015 Can you post a link to the comment in question please.
Spyman Posted March 31, 2015 Posted March 31, 2015 If these are your own thoughts on the Big Bang Theory, I'm not willing to consider them. If you willing to refer me to an expert who proposed a similar concept, fine. But, I can't take the opinion of a self taught physicist seriously. Talk about alternative theories in a unique manner (and provide references) but avoid suggesting your own Theory of the origin of the universe. http://www.scienceforums.net/topic/88411-big-bang-theory-is-incorrect-more-like-little-bangs/
Sensei Posted March 31, 2015 Posted March 31, 2015 (edited) For example, a comment I made yesterday got 4 thumbs down. The comments seemed fairly straightforward to me. I didn't participate in this, but it seems quite rude comment. Replies should be unbiased, calm, reasonable, attractive, meaningful, useful, exploratory, revelatory.. See f.e. mine the first +3 rep points on this forum: http://www.scienceforums.net/topic/78975-plancks-electric-charge-factual-one/page-2#entry771461 In thread about electric charge, I pointed out that Max Planck didn't know what value has e constant at the time of he developed Planck units. Kramer was confused about what Planck charge is so different from elementary charge e. I was the first one to point out about dates when these two things were measured. That's revelatory for discussion, don't you think? Three people agreed with this thus gave vote up. Edited March 31, 2015 by Sensei
Vexen Posted March 31, 2015 Author Posted March 31, 2015 (edited) I don't understand how that could be rude. If you are a layman in a particular field, your opinions about it are not likely to be taken seriously. Is this unreasonable? Maybe I'm just a poor writer. Edited March 31, 2015 by Vexen
ajb Posted March 31, 2015 Posted March 31, 2015 (edited) So, how do I become the neutral guy and not the negative? My general advice is the following; Always be polite and avoid personal attacks. Answer questions with established science. If the science is more speculative then say so, giving references if possible. Avoid hijacking a thread to discuss your 'pet theory'. Ask questions rather than make bold statements. Do not get upset when people dissect your bold statements and ask for some tangible support for your statements. Think about what subsection you post in. (Do not post more than one thread on exactly the same subject) Try to think about the comments made by others. Do not simply ignore the advice of others who know the subject and continue to post things full of elementary mistakes. Do your best to follow the rules of this forum, which is not difficult and by following the previous points you will be most of the way there anyway. For specifics you should direct us to the posts you are referring to. As a side comment, most of those who moan about the reputation system are from those who get lots of negative points by clearly violating my 'suggestion list'. More often than not is is because they simply ignore other member's comments and advice or start to get rude. Being wrong is not against the rules and should not get any negative points; it is what you do when the errors are pointed out to you that matters. EDIT: If you are asking specifically about what Spyman has quoted then it violates 1. You have been a little rude and unhelpful. Edited March 31, 2015 by ajb 1
swansont Posted March 31, 2015 Posted March 31, 2015 I don't understand how that could be rude. If you are a layman in a particular field, your opinions about it are not likely to be taken seriously. Is this unreasonable? Maybe I'm just a poor writer. Attack the argument, not the person. You dismissed someone without listening to their argument, and further, you went out of your way to point this out. You could have posted nothing at all, and given that you weren't going to critique the work, should have posted nothing. 1
pavelcherepan Posted March 31, 2015 Posted March 31, 2015 I don't understand how that could be rude. If you are a layman in a particular field, your opinions about it are not likely to be taken seriously. Is this unreasonable? Maybe I'm just a poor writer. The fact that a person is self-taught doesn't mean much and definitely can't make an argument against his position. For example, I self-taught myself Japanese. I don't think it makes my knowledge any worse than that of someone who got formal education and I'm quite capable of speaking, reading and writing so it would be super annoying if someone criticised me based only on the fact that I'd learnt it by myself.
Vexen Posted March 31, 2015 Author Posted March 31, 2015 okay - 1) I shouldn't comment about the competence of an author. 2) And I'll make my posts sound more friendly. 2
ajb Posted March 31, 2015 Posted March 31, 2015 1) I shouldn't comment about the competence of an author. Well, for sure not as a first reply. Generally the competence of the author quickly becomes apparent, if not directly from the opening post. Moreover, for some reason the real quacks we see will be very proud and quite open about their lack of competence in science.
studiot Posted March 31, 2015 Posted March 31, 2015 Please note until today I was unaware of the referred thread as it is not my scene. So I have not contributed to it in any way. First I am going to take your opening post at its face value and say +1 for trying to address the issue. Unlike us from the Old World, New Zealanders are amongst the most isolated and therefore most insulated from traditional predudices. One offered a fair and friendly critique of your discussion. Did you read it? If you did read it can you see the difference between your posts and his and why the difference in the red and green votes? No-one has credence until she had established that she can offer well thought out statements, based on knowledge and rational thought. This may be already established elsewhere if the person identifies themselves as a known expert in that field. Otherwise you should seek to establish your own credentials here by making such statements and comments. The green marks will then flow of their own accord.
Strange Posted March 31, 2015 Posted March 31, 2015 For example, I self-taught myself Japanese. 上手ですね！
MigL Posted March 31, 2015 Posted March 31, 2015 Speaking/writing in a language others don't understand is rude. Your reps should be down-voted ! But seriously Vexen, EVERYONE's opinion is valid, whether layman or expert as that isn't a criteria. The only criteria is whether they can back it up with proof.
zapatos Posted March 31, 2015 Posted March 31, 2015 I don't understand how that could be rude. Let's look at it from his perspective. Here is a guy who is self taught in physics. He has an idea and gives it a lot of thought, then wonders who he can share this idea with. He looks around and finds a discussion forum. He joins the forum, starts off with a disclaimer that he is self taught so as to not mislead, then lays out his thoughts for others to see. Right off the bat, after his very first post on this discussion forum, he is greeted with the statement that his thoughts can't be taken seriously, and that he should not even attempt voicing any other original thoughts on this topic, as any thoughts on this topic that come from him specifically are not worthy of consideration. Ouch! I would have given you two neg reps if I could have.
dimreepr Posted March 31, 2015 Posted March 31, 2015 Post with humility not hostility, post with a smile not a frown, accept that you may be wrong and most importantly learn when you’re shown to be wrong.
Beer w/Straw Posted March 31, 2015 Posted March 31, 2015 I don't think you are getting good advice. I'm a student and I can get easily annoyed and pissed off by some one poo pooing stuff that I'm trying to learn. In short, you can offend people with your comments.
Phi for All Posted March 31, 2015 Posted March 31, 2015 I don't think you are getting good advice. I'm a student and I can get easily annoyed and pissed off by some one poo pooing stuff that I'm trying to learn. In short, you can offend people with your comments. Given your second and third sentences, I'm having trouble placing the tone of the first. It seems contradictory, but maybe I'm misunderstanding. Hasn't everyone been advising him similarly? To be clear, I think this is a matter of Vexen using too many fallacious arguments, which are always a bit annoying. Ad hominem and Appeal to Authority in the same argument is really inconsistent with our purpose here. We want to focus our criticism on ideas, not on people.
Beer w/Straw Posted March 31, 2015 Posted March 31, 2015 As far as I can see, people are telling what proper etiquette is and not what another member can feel.
zapatos Posted March 31, 2015 Posted March 31, 2015 Why is telling someone to use proper etiquette bad advice?
zapatos Posted March 31, 2015 Posted March 31, 2015 As compared to them using fallacious arguments and telling another that their thoughts are not worthy of consideration because they don't have sufficient credentials.
Beer w/Straw Posted March 31, 2015 Posted March 31, 2015 If that were the case, I wouldn't even bother giving advice to this individual.
Recommended Posts