Two meanings or a single one ? [English]

[Externet]

Hi. The written phrases

"Mom, let us ride on the train" and "Mom, let's ride on the train"

 

Have the same meaning or not ?

[Strange]

Yes. The first is abnormally formal; I can't imagine anyone saying it in modern English. Actually, on second thoughts, the first could be interpreted as requesting permission: "Mom, [will you] let us ride on the train." (The second form can't be used that way.)

 

Note that the comma is essential. "Mom let us ride on the train" has a completely different meaning.

 

This is the comma of direct address, aka the Donner Party comma (*); it makes the difference between "Let's eat, Grandma" and "Let's eat Grandma".

 

(*) What? Too soon?

[imatfaal]

Agree - but the form with the elided "will you" would end with a question mark rather than a full stop or with a rising interrogative in speech.

[Strange]

Agree - but the form with the elided "will you" would end with a question mark rather than a full stop or with a rising interrogative in speech.

 

Good point.

[Externet]

Yes. The first is abnormally formal; I can't imagine anyone saying it in modern English...

Thanks. Would it still be abnormally formal if the intended meaning is "Mom, allow us to ride the train" ?

[Strange]

Thanks. Would it still be abnormally formal if the intended meaning is "Mom, allow us to ride the train" ?

 

I don't think so. But it sounds a little unnatural to me. And perhaps more of a demand, with an implied "or else" at the end!

[imatfaal]

Thanks. Would it still be abnormally formal if the intended meaning is "Mom, allow us to ride the train" ?

 

"Let's" is most commonly the English formation of the (first person plural) imperative.

 

Whereas the phrase "Will you let us..?" or "Will you allow us..?" is seeking permission and would, especially in spoken English, be replaced with "Can we..?" or "May I..?"

 

edit - to show two distinct usage

Edited April 7, 2015 by imatfaal
format

[Strange]

Actually, I think it is more common as a suggestion/exhortion: Let's go!

[imatfaal]

Actually, I think it is more common as a suggestion/exhortion: Let's go!

 

That is the first person plural imperative. In French it would be Allons-y! Or for a regular verb Mangeons!

[Acme]

Thanks. Would it still be abnormally formal if the intended meaning is "Mom, allow us to ride the train" ?

When the meaning of 'lets' is 'allow', there is no apostrophe. You would write "Mom, let us ride the train." if speaking to Mom, or "Mom lets us ride the train." if speaking to someone other than Mom.

 

In your original 2 sentences [if speaking to Mom] I would use a semicolon and either would be correct to say. The meanings I think are different in that the first, "Mom; let us ride on the train." is a demand, whereas the second, "Mom; let's ride on the train." is a suggestion. In the latter there is an implication that Mom is riding together with the speaker but no such implication in the former unless it is understood as being an overly formal statement as already mentioned.

 

By now all have missed the train and this lets us off the hook. Let's drop the subject.

[StringJunky]

I would prefer to say "Mom, shall we ride on the train?" It isn't assertive and neither is it seeking permission; it's a suggestion that is quite neutral.

[Strange]

"Shall" sounds pretty dated to me, as well. I don't think the word is part of my idiolect.

[Acme]

"Shall" sounds pretty dated to me, as well. I don't think the word is part of my idiolect.

Leaving us separated by a common language perchance? What is missing from the original sentences is a context whereby we may discern the meaning.