EULER's disc and persistent ROCKING PLATES. How does GRAVITY make them work ?

[imatfaal]

I have got the EULER's disk out of its box and cranked it up a number of times.

Although a slight twist is necessary to start the disc operating , by a fall at an angle.

Once it has started its ' spoll' ( spin and roll ), it is clear that spinning is not a dominant characteristic . I have measured it as changing between 1/3 rotation/ sec to a 1 rotation per second . Though it appears very active . This is the up and down bounce as one side is falling to the surface and the other side of the circle is bouncing up . It is the point of bounce ( surface contact ) that is rotating, also . But a mark on the disc can be seen to be rotating fairly slowly compared to the other fast movement of the oscillating bounce ( approximately 10 times per second ) .

 

So one should ask if the angular velocity is so slow ( 1 rev per sec) to ( 1/3 rev per second ) can angular momentum , be the dominant characteristic , whereas the oscillating bounce ( 10 Hz and rising ) and roll seems to be where all the action is. Is this bounce not the falling to the surface under the pull of gravity , and the return force not the leverage of the base it is rolling on giving the upward thrust to push the restoring movement of the disc?

 

Could it not be argued, that it is the fast up and down rolling bounce due to gravity , that is the key player in the Euler Disk phenomenon rather than the fast spin or angular momentum usually attributed to the stability of a spinning top? As 1/3 to 1 revs/ sec is very slow and would normally topple . Or have I got it wrong ?

 

Mike

 

Mike - what is the change in the height of the centre of mass during a few seconds? If it is a good Euler's disc that change will be almost unmeasurable. Gravity is a constant force acting to bring that centre of mass to the lowest position. A bouncing object has its centre of mass falling, rebounding, rising, falling, rebounding... Eulers disc doesn't do this.

 

Mark a dot at the very centre of each face - if you look from the side for short periods of a few seconds this mark will not move in the vertical plane, it certainly doesn't bounce. What it does do is move around in circles in the horizontal (10 per sec) acc your observations AND the coin spins around it (less than one per sec).

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

Mike - what is the change in the height of the centre of mass during a few seconds? If it is a good Euler's disc that change will be almost unmeasurable. Gravity is a constant force acting to bring that centre of mass to the lowest position. A bouncing object has its centre of mass falling, rebounding, rising, falling, rebounding... Eulers disc doesn't do this.

 

Mark a dot at the very centre of each face - if you look from the side for short periods of a few seconds this mark will not move in the vertical plane, it certainly doesn't bounce. What it does do is move around in circles in the horizontal (10 per sec) acc your observations AND the coin spins around it (less than one per sec).

 

Which position 'A'. Or 'B'

 

e

 

Mike

Edited April 9, 2015 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[imatfaal]

in the middle of each circular face - be sure to use something that will wipe off, would be a right pain to mar such a hi-gloss object permanently.

 

The centre of mass will lie between the two dots in the middle of the object so you cannot follow that. But the centre of each face will be close.

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

in the middle of each circular face - be sure to use something that will wipe off, would be a right pain to mar such a hi-gloss object permanently.

 

The centre of mass will lie between the two dots in the middle of the object so you cannot follow that. But the centre of each face will be close.

 

You were correct , of course .

See following live pictures.

 

 

The question remains ? How do I get the multi smeared fresh white acrylic art paint " off " my £ 45 precision machined Steel Euler disc , and well crafted mirror surface ?

 

Mike

 

Ps joking

 

So you are correct the center of gravity remains level. So the device as a whole remains very stable and as a whole device not bouncing.

 

However parts of the disc are continually moving towards the surface of the disc and opposite equal parts are moving away in this faster 10 Htz . This I presume must be termed the " spoll " identified on the Box as a mixture of spin and roll. I would suggest the up and down nature of this spoll is the equivalent of the bounce that I was suggesting previously as being bounce. So not bounce , more a Roll or spoll as they call it . Namely half of the mass of the disc , at any one time is :-

 

As a summation of parts ( half the mass ) under the influence of gravity ,being pulled towards the surface , and the other half , by ( some means ?? ) being carried aloft, upwards? Surely this can not be angular momentum? As at the point of contact the steel about to go skyward is ' still' ( with ref to surface ) not moving either forward or backward ?

 

Surely it is the opposite side across the Euler disc , that is now being pulled down to earth by gravity transfers it's pull into a push across the fulcrum of action ( say centre of disc ) , to push the other half of the steel skyward. For each part of the disc there is an equal and opposite part. So rather than there being a balance of gravity , of the two parts , there is a continuous , pull, pull, pull, pull, ....etc by gravity translated to an up thrust of each discrete pull down to its opposite discrete push up. A sort of see-saw action . Probably about that centre of gravity ( that is now an ever growing smear of white acrylic paint )

 

I am certainly not convinced yet , that this can be angular momentum as the main driver. Unless you are going to convince me otherwise! As I have previously measured any angular speed is a mere 1 Htz. Very slow , more a angular creep?

 

That is unless the descending ,gravitational potential energy , is converted to some form of angular momentum ,as a kinetic energy , that is then somehow converted back into potential energy increase on the upward push? .?

 

But I even then do not think it was any angular spin that might have been given to the disc in the first ,start? Surely not ? .... Maybe.. .... I need to get all this white paint off everything ! Now my fingers, the dining room table , my shirt.. My wife in going to go berserk!

 

Mike

 

Pps as a rider , I think something similar , in principle , but not the same , is happening with the china , ( that incidentally is now broken, my wife threw it at me ) . Half is being pulled down by gravity, pushing the other half up. ( continuous change in potential and kinetic energy . See saw .

Edited April 13, 2015 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[swansont]

A see saw is a somewhat related phenomenon. If the masses are equal, essentially no force is required to lift either end.

 

Angular momentum is never converted into energy or vice-versa.

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

A see saw is a somewhat related phenomenon. If the masses are equal, essentially no force is required to lift either end.

.

The china plate rattle on a minute fulcrum , both on top of a level granite worktop, I am sure must be the see saw motion , in principle . Two observations here , I believe , do shed some light on this matter .

 

1)

The china plate on a small thin fulcrum , on a granite work top .

Although this can be started by a small initial displacement. The system carries on clicking for some time.

The surface interaction appears similar to the EULER's disc , surface interaction . Namely it is a sort of curved roll , rather than a sudden ' tap ' . Again I would suggest gravity is the energy to maintain the rattle. Coupled with a roll type changeover .

 

2) this is experienced very profoundly when on my 250 cc water cooled motor scooter . Although I have a small 100cc scooter that you can throw about ,all over the place. The 250cc scooter is very heavy .

When you first sit on it while static , you have to be very careful to keep it upright. If you do not it can very easily pull you over sideways . Two persons on different occasions , had to assist me with getting it upright from a half leaning condition. Now out on the open road , the motor scooter just wings along , very upright. It take little or no effort to tweet it to remain upright. If I push it slightly over , it pushes itself upright. If I go round a corner ( I do not lean in the direction of the turn . Rather I push the motor cycle to definitely lean in the direction of the turn. You push against a spongy force , which tries to come upright . If I the go around a corner holding the motor cycle in a leaning over angle . It self supports this angle ( unlike when it Is stationary , where it pulls me over . I played with it the other day , and although not allowing too severe an angle , I can bounce it , in the leaning angle

 

I have thought about this , and as far as I can work out . It is inertia that builds up , at even a small speed. I think pedal cyclists find this same experience. Once this inertia is there in a straight line , the motor cycle wants to continue in that way ( newtons law ) . To change to a curve , by leaning the bike over , you can feel this force pushing the bike up towards an upright mode .

 

What I do not understand , is surely the bike already has inertia even when still , as the surface of the earth is supposed to be moving 1000 mph as it carries out its daily spin .

 

Also what that spongy upthrust that I experience as I go round corners and push the handlebars down so the motor cycle is leaning over while driving along not only but particularly around a corner ?

 

Mike

Edited April 13, 2015 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[swansont]

The china plate on a small thin fulcrum , on a granite work top .

Although this can be started by a small initial displacement. The system carries on clicking for some time.

The surface interaction appears similar to the EULER's disc , surface interaction . Namely it is a sort of curved roll , rather than a sudden ' tap ' . Again I would suggest gravity is the energy to maintain the rattle. Coupled with a roll type changeover .

 

You do not need any energy input to maintain the motion. All you need is low losses. Though in a system like this, vibration on resonance could be present.

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

You do not need any energy input to maintain the motion. All you need is low losses. Though in a system like this, vibration on resonance could be present.

.

Yes that is fair enough . But surely what energy is in the system. Say put in by a careless hand skewing the plate as we put it in . The the energy goes through consecutive kinetic energy caused by gravity acting on one side of plate , pulling it down . at the same time increasing the potential energy being increased on the other side edge . Then the whole cycle is reversed .

 

Mike

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

.

.Plates that rock back and forth, and similar materials ( ridged , low loss , stiff, vibrational, ..etc) , "seem to be coming out of the woodwork " at me. I think that is because my mind is ' ticking along' on the subject , so I tend to notice it more. ( perhaps) . ( or the universe is trying desperately to say something , like ' find me ' . ) But not too many scientists like that slant. ( although some do) . * see ps.

 

Plates , like EULER's disc , are on a ' Roll ' , no doubt about it. The nature of ' The Gravity Field ' existing in the region of the plate , must be -- ' very very stable, linear, equal, precise, '--

 

{ I have noticed this in other areas of observation a) Water is very sensitive to the slightest difference in height, and runs or flows with the most minute ,differential.

b) an item like a round pencil or any other mobile object, will run down a surface that is imperceptible in its ' level-ness' .

 

Does this precision in gravity, coupled with the atomic/ molecular structure of the china plate and marble work top uncover the very balanced ' nature ' of both gravity and the atomic structure of both China and Marble ?

 

Mike

 

* PS. see Prof Cox recent Horizon program - Blue Sky Research ( Serendipity )

Also . Paul Nurse - New Research Institute - London currently being Finalised .

Edited May 2, 2015 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[imatfaal]

* PS. see Prof Cox recent Horizon program - Blue Sky Research ( Serendipity )

Also . Paul Nurse - New Research Institute - London currently being Finalised .

 

[OT] Gotta love celebrity. Prof Brian Cox gets an honorific, presumably because he is on TV and has nice hair; Prof Sir Paul Nurse (Nobel Laureate and President of the Royal Society) doesn't. The research institute being finalised sounds awfully like the Francis Crick Institute which was opened in 2010 and Sir Paul is the Director - they will be moving to a new building in Camden pretty soon. [/OT]

 

I am not sure what you are saying about gravity - and I still don't see it as balanced by anything else; in some cases it is opposed most often by the normal reaction force but the only balance is in a newtons third law sense and that must act on a separate body. And scientists will always tend to shy away from needless mysticism.

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

[OT] Gotta love celebrity. Prof Brian Cox gets an honorific, presumably because he is on TV and has nice hair; Prof Sir Paul Nurse (Nobel Laureate and President of the Royal Society) doesn't. The research institute being finalised sounds awfully like the Francis Crick Institute which was opened in 2010 and Sir Paul is the Director - they will be moving to a new building in Camden pretty soon. [/OT]

 

I am not sure what you are saying about gravity - and I still don't see it as balanced by anything else; in some cases it is opposed most often by the normal reaction force but the only balance is in a newtons third law sense and that must act on a separate body. And scientists will always tend to shy away from needless mysticism.

Yes, well, I am not sure either ! It just seems, that compared with everything else in nature or the world for that matter, that vibrates , or flaps, or wobbles , it seems far more prolonged. ( abnormally , goes on a bit long ) . Not like a flapping leaf , blown by the wind , or a babbling brook, driven by falling water. Here , something with the slightest accidental placement ,tap, nudge ,in the case of the plates, goes into a prolonged oscillation. All this says to me is, there is either an extraordinary balance always having been accidentally happened on , or an inherent preponderance to vibration or oscillation. My surmise, like yours, is that there is no extra restorative force. It is completely perpetuated by Gravity.

 

So I ask myself , what is it about gravity that prompts this oscillation? I am thinking it " may ! " be to do with some absolute precision and regularity in the field, and this particular interaction with that field ? With many natural interactions at the human scale, usually they are less precise, noise, variation, interference, etc this seems different. Not magic! just some happening on a very precise, balanced, repeatable setting . I just wonder what is it about this plate, china, marble work surface , Gravity field , interaction , that makes it the way it is ?

 

. Mike

Edited May 4, 2015 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[Strange]

I am thinking it " may ! " be to do with some absolute precision and regularity in the field, and this particular interaction with that field ?

 

At a fixed location, the gravitational field will be constant (*): is that what you mean precise and regular? If not, what do you mean?

 

(*) Ignoring minuscule effects such as the Moon, etc.

[swansont]

It is completely perpetuated by Gravity.

 

So I ask myself , what is it about gravity that prompts this oscillation?

 

I think you're overthinking this. It is simply that gravity exists that permits the oscillations. The property of the materials involved are why the oscillations are extended in time. Just like making a wine glass ring by striking it hard with your finger. Good crystal will take a while to ring down. Not so much with a cheap glass.

[DrP]

Yea, it's just a see saw with low loss of energy to friction.

Just a quick thought on the observed 'perpetual' nature of the plate on marble over a knife scenario... could air currents help keep the thing going for longer? Wouldn't take much for the system that is finely balanced to get started or be kept going by the occasional movement of air, no?

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

I think you're overthinking this. It is simply that gravity exists that permits the oscillations. The property of the materials involved are why the oscillations are extended in time. Just like making a wine glass ring by striking it hard with your finger. Good crystal will take a while to ring down. Not so much with a cheap glass.

 

At a fixed location, the gravitational field will be constant (*): is that what you mean precise and regular? If not, what do you mean?

 

(*) Ignoring minuscule effects such as the Moon, etc.

Yea, it's just a see saw with low loss of energy to friction.

Just a quick thought on the observed 'perpetual' nature of the plate on marble over a knife scenario... could air currents help keep the thing going for longer? Wouldn't take much for the system that is finely balanced to get started or be kept going by the occasional movement of air, no?

. I hope that I am not about to be " Hoisted by one's own petard " , but I felt that stumbling ,currently , on this observed phenomenon . That I would possibly be guilty of ignoring an observation that could possibly be a glimpse into one of natures inner operations.

 

Normally we are out here forcing things to work with minimal friction , by good metalwork machining processes , and super lubricants. Yet when under a microscope the touching surfaces look like the Rocky Mountain range.

 

Yet here we are not scraping surface on surface but merely Rolling , namely touching surface to surface face on with no surface to surface movement. Also the materials , at first pass look very much like one immovable surface touching another immovable surface. Whether we are 'bouncing at an atomic level' , I do not know but it looks a bit like it to me. And because of the absolute ' still pond ' of a level field of gravity BINGO . We have ourselves a party ! Or am I ' over egging the cake '

 

It's just that I can not put a plate down nowadays on the granite work top without the rocking ,clicking sound . Both Prof Cox and Paul Nurse are encouraging us to look out for Serendipity. I am ' putting my hand up ' Sir , I think I may have found one !

 

( Bouncing at an Atomic level , by Rolling )

 

Mike

 

Demo of plate rolling in Exeter

 

Edited May 5, 2015 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[Strange]

Both Prof Cox and Paul Nurse are encouraging us to look out for Serendipity. I am ' putting my hand up ' Sir , I think I may have found one !

 

There is nothing particularly serendipitous nor new about this. As this thread has shown, a lot of people have seen this and spent a lot of time analysing it. It doesn't appear to reveal anything new about gravity (or anything else).

 

By the way, Wikipedia has a good page on the meaning and use of "serendipity" in science and engineering: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serendipity

 

Innovations presented as examples of serendipity have an important characteristic: they were made by individuals able to "see bridges where others saw holes" and connect events creatively, based on the perception of a significant link.

The chance is an event, serendipity a capacity.

 

I don't see how that applies in this case. This is more a case of "wonder": isn't it amazing that a simple object can behave in this rather unexpected way (and be so complex to fully analyse)

Edited May 5, 2015 by Strange

[swansont]

I hope that I am not about to be " Hoisted by one's own petard " , but I felt that stumbling ,currently , on this observed phenomenon . That I would possibly guilty of ignoring an observation that could possibly be a glimpse into one of natures inner operations.

 

Normally we are out here forcing things to work with minimal friction , by good metalwork machining processes , and super lubricants. Yet when under a microscope the touching surfaces look like the Rocky Mountain range.

 

Yet here we are not scraping surface on surface but merely Rolling , namely touching surface to surface face on with no surface to surface movement. Also the materials , at first pass look very much like one immovable surface touching another immovable surface. Whether we are bouncing at an atomic level , I do not know but it looks a bit like it to me. And because of the absolute ' still pond ' of a level field of gravity BINGO . We have ourselves a party ! Or am I ' over egging the cake '

 

It's just that I can not put a plate down nowadays on the granite work top without the rocking ,clicking sound .

 

But it's china on granite that's doing this. It's relatively unusual. You didn't notice this with any sort of plastic or wood veneer top, or with other objects, did you? Gravity is ubiquitous, but this effect is limited to certain combinations of materials. That tells you that it's the materials that are key.

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

But it's china on granite that's doing this. It's relatively unusual. You didn't notice this with any sort of plastic or wood veneer top, or with other objects, did you? Gravity is ubiquitous, but this effect is limited to certain combinations of materials. That tells you that it's the materials that are key.

 

Yes, I think you may be right!

I also think the medium of the Gravitational field , ( the phenomenon would not occur in Zero Gravity ) has its part to play . What I am saying also is that the characteristic of this field ( which is invisible ) as you do not see this field directly . ( it is very very precise)

 

This is demonstrated when you see a speeded up film of boats coming in and out of harbour . They show up as ' dead ' flat . Unlike when you see them live .

 

Mike

Edited May 5, 2015 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[DrP]

Less dampening of the motion with the harder materials. Think about it, with a plastic plate, more energy is absorbed into the plastic as heat rather than being transferred back into the rebound. The harder material doesn't deform like the plastic.

 

I'm certain that you are overthinking the 'Gravitational field' stuff... of course it won't work at zero G... neither will a see saw, unless the people on it were to push up with their legs each bounce... (so you might actually get some oscillation at zero G due to the bouncing if the system was set in motion by an outside force to begin with). It really is just a see saw.

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

There is nothing particularly serendipitous nor new about this. As this thread has shown, a lot of people have seen this and spent a lot of time analysing it. It doesn't appear to reveal anything new about gravity (or anything else).

 

By the way, Wikipedia has a good page on the meaning and use of "serendipity" in science and engineering: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serendipity

 

 

I don't see how that applies in this case. This is more a case of "wonder": isn't it amazing that a simple object can behave in this rather unexpected way (and be so complex to fully analyse)

.

.

I appreciate you referring to Serendipity . Many scientists may be scared off by my use of the word as ' fairy Tales' and the like . But as Wikipedia highlights it is NOT to be neglected

.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~.~.

Quote from Wikipedia " The serendipitous can play an important role in the search for truth, but because of traditional scientific behavior and scientific thinking based on logic and predictability is often ignored in the scientific literature.

 

Successful researchers can observe the results with a careful attention in the mood to analyze a phenomenon under the most diverse and different perspectives. Question themselves on assumptions that do not fit with the empirical observations. Realizing that serendipitous events can generate important research ideas, these researchers recognize and appreciate the unexpected, encouraging their assistants to observe and discuss unexpected events.

 

Serendipity can be obtained in groups in that the "critical mass" of multidisciplinary scientists working together in an environment that fosters communication, establishing the idea that the work and the interest of a researcher can be shared with others who may find a new application for a new knowledge.

 

Serendipity in science and technologyEdit

 

Main article: . ROLE OF CHANCE IN SCIENTIFIC DISCOVERIES

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Various thinkers discuss the role that luck can play in science. One aspect of Walpole's original definition of serendipity, often missed in modern discussions of the word, is the need for an individual to be "SAGACIOUS " *. enough to link together apparently innocuous facts in order to come to a valuable conclusion. Indeed, the scientific method, and the scientists themselves, can be prepared in many other ways to harness luck and make discoveries.

 

Serendipity and innovationEdit

 

Serendipity is typically used incorrectly as a synonym for opportunity, coincidence, luck or providence, a concept that prejudices the appreciation of the term in relation to its contribution to the innovation process.

 

It is often a misunderstood quality for discovery and innovation. It may become a powerful tool in the contribution of innovative insights that lead to the attainment of entrepreneurial visions.

 

Understanding the processes of their development and uses allows managers, innovators and researchers as they can use "serendipity" as an important contribution to the competitive success of a given company." Unquote .

..

.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

So if you are asking me " why are you looking for things , as this is ordinary ...whatever?" I am saying I have a scent for something that seems , NOT ordinary .

 

So I am ' positing ' that gravity fields are particularly precise, level , stable , reliable , dependable , consistent , like a brick wall , etc ' if one tries to bounce a ball against a sack of potatoes ' it is a disaster . If you try to bounce a ball on perfectly level concrete , you have a precise bounce.

 

I am also ' positing ' that china on granite in a ' ROLLING ' condition is demonstrating ' some form ' of atomic interfacing which is efficient, reliable , consistent, accurate , Energy Conserving , and other goodies.

 

Mike

 

* sagacious :- (adjective) . Mentally penetrating, gifted with discernment, having practical wisdom, acute-minded, shrewd, ( of saying,plan etc) showing sargacity ( of animal) exceptionally intelligent, seeming to reason or deliberate.

Edited May 5, 2015 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

But it's china on granite that's doing this. It's relatively unusual. You didn't notice this with any sort of plastic or wood veneer top, or with other objects, did you? Gravity is ubiquitous, but this effect is limited to certain combinations of materials. That tells you that it's the materials that are key.

 

Yes ,I can concede that the materials are a significant contributor to this phenomenon, but I also think the idea of 'rolling' under the influence of a very precision field ( namely Gravity ) is also a major factor in this observation. One side pulling down by gravity, the other side fighting against gravity as it is pulled up. However I have noticed the oscillation is NOT significantly changed by the fulcrum change . Which it would be , if it were totally see- saw in its derivation! ? Perhaps a bouncy see-saw( Bee-Baw). Thus the dominant phenomenon IS ..ROLLING, AS THE EULER's disc is , ( spolling ) ( spin and rolling ) and again the surface materials are a key issue.

 

So my 'loose' proposition so far is that :- " Rolling across a bouncy ' exposed ' atomic lattice in a precision gravitational field , is an efficient way to avoid frictional resistance to movement " .

 

Is this what oil does as a lubricant? except it does not allow the gravity roll to occur because of the viscosity of the oil ? How about very , very thin oil ? Micro carbon bucket balls ? Graphine ?

 

Mike

Edited May 6, 2015 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[swansont]

 

So my 'loose' proposition so far is that :- " Rolling across a bouncy ' exposed ' atomic lattice in a precision gravitational field , is an efficient way to avoid frictional resistance to movement " .

 

Then develop a model, define your terms more precisely, and come up with ways your idea can be tested.

[DrP]

Euler's Kettle.

 

 

I was reminded of this thread yesterday when I made a cup of coffee... I put the kettle down somewhere I do not usually put it with a hard surface. It must have caught on the edge of nadir in the plastic or something as it started oscillating very fast from one side to the other. It took a while to settle down too. I did wonder if the simmering water inside was turbulent and unstablising the system further, as I haven't seen it doing that before and it did sustain, seemingly for a long time.

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

Euler's Kettle.

 

 

I was reminded of this thread yesterday when I made a cup of coffee... I put the kettle down somewhere I do not usually put it with a hard surface. It must have caught on the edge of nadir in the plastic or something as it started oscillating very fast from one side to the other. It took a while to settle down too. I did wonder if the simmering water inside was turbulent and unstablising the system further, as I haven't seen it doing that before and it did sustain, seemingly for a long time.

I am heartened that you had a similar amazement , as to the length of time the oscillation continues.

A simple back and forth a couple or so times and one would dismiss it as normal settling . But these lengthy oscillation, certainly with me prompt me to think " something very 'Local' is going on .

 

As the soarse of correction is almost certainly caused by GRAVITY , . but then one asks " such an exact balance or oscillation cannot surely be controlled from some great mass of earth rock , deep within the earth " cannot surely " , be affecting my plate or kettle from such vast distances ( say 1000,s of miles beneath the surface of the earth. ) . Surely what is going on must be far more ' Local! ' . We are surely seeing a disturbed ' LOCAL GRAVITATIONAL FIELD '

 

How do you see it ?

 

Mike

[DrP]

.... I just see it as a see saw Mike being honest - that's all it is I think, just a see saw with low vertical displacement for the oscillations and good transference of the momentum after the impacts due to the surfaces of the work top and the kettle being hard.