Need a list of any unique substance you can think of....

[John Cuthber]

 

And who can argue that the structure of Molybdenum blue is anything but awe inspiring

Edited April 19, 2015 by John Cuthber

[MWresearch]

But in your focus on strict science you have forfeit a basic understanding of a basic social concept. You personally may find something impressive, but does the rest of the world? And furthermore would an average person have any knowledge of it? Every culture around the world has entire stories about things like rock, water, wood, a lot have stories about gun powder, use glass, mine crystals, the developed countries have questions about dark matter, other planets, materials in space and what stars are made of, etc. As I said, if it is esoteric it is likely not viable, you will have to make a particularly exceptional argument for it. Whether or not you are in touch enough with society to know if Molybdenum compounds are esoteric is not something I can directly help you with.

Edited April 19, 2015 by MWresearch

[John Cuthber]

OK, for a start, you shoot yourself in the foot when you say "You personally may find something impressive, but does the rest of the world?"

In doing that you make it clear that any person's list will not reliably agree with anyone else's.

You might think that "wood" is a suitable entry for the list; some people would count hardwood and softwoods separately.

A boyer might only consider yew worth a specific mention and an oncologist might agree- but for a totally different reason.

 

"Every culture around the world has entire stories about things like rock"

Sounds like a truly fascinating read- I must check it out on Amazon later.

And when you say "Whether or not you are in touch enough with society to know if Molybdenum compounds are esoteric is not something I can directly help you with. " you make an ammusing assumption that "normal people" don't know about molybdenum.

i think you will find it's rather more "street" than you thought.

http://www.liqui-moly.de/liquimoly/produktdb.nsf/id/en_1521.html?OpenDocument&land=DE

On the whole the list is so subjective that it's like asking someone to think of a number, then telling them they are wrong if they don't come up with the number you had in mind.

 

Perhaps we could return to basics.

You started the thread with "For a specific project where I seem to have exhausted most possibilities, "

What's the project?

If we know that, we can target our ideas better.

 

Incidentally, the "average person" has slightly fewer than two legs; slightly fewer than one testicle; and slightly fewer than one ovary. Have you met many average people?

Edited April 19, 2015 by John Cuthber

[MWresearch]

The problem still remains that you're out of touch with society, it doesn't matter if an extremely specific branch of a select group of people of a specific industry has a specific compound, what matters is the commonality between different peoples, things that you could expect an average person to know and understand. As I said, this is not the philosophy section, there is no overall debate, I give parameters relating to well-known materials or things brought to light in pop-culture and if you do not want to post within such parameters then no one is forcing you to. You simply have to have a feel for society and what the average person knows to continuously avoid the problems you seem to run into. The first couple people who posted had no trouble with this, but a Ph. D such as your self who resides in the realm of the esoteric and theoretical, does.

Edited April 19, 2015 by MWresearch

[Acme]

Refined Sugar

Salt

Beeswax

[John Cuthber]

The problem still remains that you're out of touch with society, it doesn't matter if an extremely specific branch of a select group of people of a specific industry has a specific compound, what matters is the commonality between different peoples, things that you could expect an average person to know and understand. As I said, this is not the philosophy section, there is no overall debate, I give parameters relating to well-known materials or things brought to light in pop-culture and if you do not want to post within such parameters then no one is forcing you to. You simply have to have a feel for society and what the average person knows to continuously avoid the problems you seem to run into. The first couple people who posted had no trouble with this, but a Ph. D such as your self who resides in the realm of the esoteric and theoretical, does.

I'm intrigued by a couple of things; firstly, I don't have a degree, never mind a PhD.

Secondly, you seem not to realise that, for example, motor bike fans are members of society and will know about Molybdenum.

I'm not the one who is out of touch here.

It's just that you don't know that lots of people are very well informed about some things.

If you think the "man in the street" can tell you a lot about Bose-Einstein Condensates then you are walking down a rather odd street.

Edited April 19, 2015 by John Cuthber

[MWresearch]

Some (not all) motor bike fans may know of a select few compounds containing molybdenum and it is also possible they share that knowledge with many different people to the point where it is commonly known over a vast region of Earth. That is not what is being disputed, what is being disputed are things of the opposite nature, things that are largely unknown. If you want to make an argument for a specific compound that has respectively known relevance to an abundance of average people who do not specialize in a field such as Chemistry or Engineering, you're free to do so as I mentioned in the first post. Your problem however, still remains. Just because one select group knows of one thing does not mean it is average, it does not mean the information is disbursed or comprehended by a variety of different people. An average person could easily know of "Bose-Einstein Condensate" because of pop-science shows like NOVA and PBS, or, by googling "coldest material ever" or asking a science teacher "what's the coldest temperature ever made on Earth?" If there was no chance of it being average, why was it suggested to me by a person who does not appear to specialize in a field of quantum mechanics? And dark matter was suggested to me by a person who does not have a Ph. D in higher energy atomic physics or astronomy. And that is even ignoring the fact that people might have learned something without specifically remembering what it's called. People might not know what degenerate matter is off the top of their head, but I know many people hear of a "neutron star" and wonder it is made of, so it is simply a matter of explaining that degenerate matter is ultra-dense matter that makes up a neutron star in order for any misunderstanding to be cleared which is what they do on pop-science shows and in school when teachers go off on tangents about different phases of matter. Learning a specific molybdenum compound from practical use? That likely requires at least one year of chemistry or a lot of training with mechanics, specifically in motor bikes as you so conveniently pointed out. But as I said, if you feel a certain molybdenum compound is well known by a variety of people, both in and out of related fields over a vast region of Earth, you are free to suggest it. I am questioning whether or not you understand the word "esoteric." Motor bike enthusiasts, even though they may not have a degree for in field of science, is still a very very specific group. Once again, I refer you to the first few posts. Look at their examples, think of something that has meaning or is known to many different types of people over a wide region if you want to suggest something, do not bring up substances that are esoteric.

Even fulgurite fits this criteria. Though many do not know it by name they know it by its properties and formation. Beaches exist around the world, so many people know it as "the glass stuff that comes from lightning striking the beach." Obsidian, used by Native Americans as cutting tools and hunting, sold as jewelry or a collectible in common rock shops or costume jewelry to average people, plentiful in heavily populated hot spots such as Hawaii where it is well known to the inhabitants. Lanthanides, used in common electronics, used in common glass products like even sunglasses, taught as a category of elements to many different people who are required to take a semester of chemistry for their degree, known to many rock collectors, some historians, some economists and some geographers specifically for their respective fields of study, known to rock sellers and some miners of minerals. Dark matter, the center of attention in astronomy and random discussions of average people who are skeptical of its existence and talked about at least once on every major news outlet, both televised and online, brought up as a publicly available lecture from different physicists at different universities, mentioned on pop-science and TV shows countless times, used as the basis elements science fiction stories like those of Star Trek and in video games like Quake 4. Pollen, seen around the world by different people in different countries, studied in biology, used in farming, captured in art and literature. Water, a particular substance needed by all humans, used in many industries even nuclear reactors, one of the 4 old elements of nature and also used in art. These are the kinds of things I'm looking for. If you can argue that a specific molybdenum compound accomplishes something of this magnitude, you are welcome to suggest it.

Edited April 19, 2015 by MWresearch

[John Cuthber]

How is this

" An average person could easily know of "Bose-Einstein Condensate" because of pop-science shows like NOVA and PBS, or, by googling "coldest material ever" or asking a science teacher "what's the coldest temperature ever made on Earth?"

different from

" An average person could easily know of "Bose-Einstein Condensate" molybdenum disulphide because of pop-science shows like NOVA and PBS, or, by googling "high pressure lubricant" or asking a science teacher "what's the coldest temperature ever made on Earth?" What's this stuff?

http://www.halfords.com/motoring-travel/engine-oils-fluids/grease/comma-cv-lith-moly-grease-500g

 

How do you claim to know that "Learning a specific molybdenum compound from practical use? That likely requires at least one year of chemistry "

It may take you a year; other people will vary.

 

 

Essentially what you have is a list where the sole criterion for inclusion is "Does MWresearch think it fits on this list".

Well, perhaps you should compile the list yourself.

On the other hand, if you tell us what it is for...

[MWresearch]

It's just something you have to have a feel for John. I do because I don't spend all my time focused on one subject like Chemistry, I talk to people, watch popular movies/tv-shows, study different fields and I do online marketing. When I say "an average person could google or ask a teacher about it..." I mean many people already do, it's the same situation as Dark Matter. It was the center for pop science hype and it was mentioned on some major news outlets because its creation earned a team of scientists a noble prize and many people are fascinated with extremes of science, like the coldest substances on Earth which Bose-Einstein Condensates are sometimes associated with and furthermore there is also a growing fascination among different people with quantum mechanics which Bose-Einstein condensates come up in. Frankly, something like Lith-Moly grease has not gained much momentum as any focus of interest for a variety of people. However, grease in general has accomplished this and I would add it to the list if the site weren't broken and I could still edit the post. It's a commonly known substance, its used in cooking, both advanced and common, it's used in mechanics both advanced and common and some paints and results from different chemical reactions in nature with different animals and has maintained this status throughout history. Have people done this with your molybdenum grease? Has it become the center of attention for any sort of public domain? Has been an integral part of any society or industry, past or present? Has it been a critical element in any popular story whatsoever? Have many different artists expressed it in different ways? Would you honestly expect an average person from a variety of countries to know what it is? Was it ever a common discussion point for even 1% of the population of the planet?

Maybe one day after enough time has passed, enough uses will have been discovered for your Lith-Moly grease, it will have been talked about on different TV shows, made different headlines in online newspapers, mentioned in many blogs, studied in different fields, talked about among different average people, but not today. I'd say that biker molybdenum compound is your best chance for something containing molybdenum to make it on the list, perhaps you could do more research on it to discover its wide range of relevance and interest, ask different people if they heard it and use it.

 

Jade, that's one I just thought of. Once it was one of the most coveted minerals Asia and it is still popular today and widely known among literally millions of different people, formerly used in architecture, weapons and now mainly for jewelry and occasionally religion and superstition. As such, it also sometimes appears in subjects of economy and geography and geology, perhaps even astronomy if there's jade meteorites or jade on other planets.

 

Also, just so you know, I did in fact compile most of the list myself. Ultimately I do make the decisions but that doesn't mean I don't have standards. If I want something on the list that doesn't fit the parameters, I won't put it on. Frankly I want to take ununonctium down because I realized it's probably not the heaviest element anymore, which means when people inevitably google or ask someone "what's the heaviest element?" or "what's the highest atomic number?" they won't get ununonctium. As a side tangent I wonder why someone hasn't predicted the highest possible atomic number using quantized space-time to show a cutoff limit where a synthetic element would decay in an amount of time smaller than the smallest possible unit of time.

Edited April 19, 2015 by MWresearch

[Acme]

...

Jade, that's one I just thought of. Once it was one of the most coveted minerals Asia and it is still popular today and widely known among literally millions of different people, formerly used in architecture, weapons and now mainly for jewelry and occasionally religion and superstition. As such, it also sometimes appears in subjects of economy and geography and geology, perhaps even astronomy if there's jade meteorites or jade on other planets. ...

In that vein, although I listed 'tooth', perhaps ivory would make the list. Then too, while 'just' metals, perhaps gold and steel deserve separate mention.

 

EDIT: PS The ability to edit a post expires after a few hours.

Edited April 19, 2015 by Acme

[studiot]

You need things that pretty well every human on the planet has at least some knowledge of.

 

Faeces

Urine

Bile

Blood

Seawater

Ice

Flame

Sunshine

Apple Pie

Cheese

Edited April 19, 2015 by studiot

[MWresearch]

Seawater, cheese, bile, flame are all good ones so thanks for those, can't believe I missed fire. Sunshine I would put as a sub-category of light, it's really just a variety of different frequencies of light with the dominant frequency being optical light. Apple pie, a mixture of plant material, sugar and a fibrous material that changes in high temperatures. It is unique, though, I wonder if there is a general category for it which similar foods could be included in, perhaps pastries. I suppose ivory and teeth do have some differences from the bone in ones leg, perhaps they can be sub-categories unless I can identify unique enough differences in composition and function from a typical leg bone.

The only real thing I need to do now is to be able to edit the list again.

Edited April 19, 2015 by MWresearch

[Acme]

Seawater, cheese, bile, flame are all good ones so thanks for those, can't believe I missed fire. Sunshine I would put as a sub-category of light, it's really just a variety of different frequencies of light with the dominant frequency being optical light. Apple pie, a mixture of plant material, sugar and a fibrous material that changes in high temperatures. It is unique, though, I wonder if there is a general category for it which similar foods could be included in, perhaps pastries. I suppose ivory and teeth do have some differences from the bone in ones leg, perhaps they can be sub-categories unless I can identify unique enough differences in composition and function from a typical leg bone.

The only real thing I need to do now is to be able to edit the list again.

Check & check.

 

Since you can't edit the original post, you could ask a moderator to do it. However, since few people go back to the OP, I suspect the best course of action is to post your new list and simply mark it as New Updated List.

 

A new item: Milk

[studiot]

The reason I included apple pie was that you wanted somethings that was widely represented on TV and Hollywood.

Apple pie is synonymous with America and the american way of life and used to represent it.

Otherwise any food would do.

I suppose you could say something like bigMac or whatever.

[MWresearch]

The reason I included apple pie was that you wanted somethings that was widely represented on TV and Hollywood.

Apple pie is synonymous with America and the american way of life and used to represent it.

Otherwise any food would do.

I suppose you could say something like bigMac or whatever.

 

Check & check.

 

Since you can't edit the original post, you could ask a moderator to do it. However, since few people go back to the OP, I suspect the best course of action is to post your new list and simply mark it as New Updated List.

 

A new item: Milk

Actually I think new people continuously go back the OP, that's why I want to update it, plus older ones would have to see if their suggestion made it on the list.

[Endy0816]

bacterial cellulose

aluminum foam

[Acme]

 

Since you can't edit the original post, you could ask a moderator to do it. However, since few people go back to the OP, I suspect the best course of action is to post your new list and simply mark it as New Updated List.

 

A new item: Milk

Actually I think new people continuously go back the OP, that's why I want to update it, plus older ones would have to see if their suggestion made it on the list.

 

The fact remains that you can't edit it. I suspect the staff won't continuously change it for you so go with what's doable.

 

Got milk?

Edited April 20, 2015 by Acme

[MWresearch]

I don't know that it can't be changed for certain, better to make sure with one of the people that runs the site.

[Acme]

Semen

[MWresearch]

I would put it on the list but it definitely wouldn't get approved by the project developer.

[Acme]

I would put it [semen] on the list but it definitely wouldn't get approved by the project developer.

How scientifically minded is that? A substance known throughout human history by every teenage boy? Gasp! Better to make sure with project developer.

[MWresearch]

The list is what this thread is about, not the project. You are right about the substance, so it will be put on the list, but the project this list is for probably won't use it, not everything will make it through to the project.

[Acme]

The list is what this thread is about, not the project. You are right about the substance, so it will be put on the list, but the project this list is for probably won't use it, not everything will make it through to the project.

Well, you brought up the project as an objection to semen so I responded to that objection. You liked snot, and Studiot brought up feces and urine, and since milk comes from breasts -gasp!- we have yet another potentially objectionable item. Moreover, you mention the 'project' in the opening post so it seems a reasonable subject for this discussion. I don't get all the hush-hush business on 'the project' but it does seem germane to the list. How about letting us in on it so we can better form responses that add to the list?

[MWresearch]

Well, you brought up the project as an objection to semen so I responded to that objection. You liked snot, and Studiot brought up feces and urine, and since milk comes from breasts -gasp!- we have yet another potentially objectionable item. Moreover, you mention the 'project' in the opening post so it seems a reasonable subject for this discussion. I don't get all the hush-hush business on 'the project' but it does seem germane to the list. How about letting us in on it so we can better form responses that add to the list?

I did not bring up the project as an objection to putting the substance on the list at all, I simply stated that the nature of the project is such that the developer likely will not use that substance as with a great deal many of these substances, and since the project itself is not strictly science related to these substances, getting hush-hush about it is exactly what I will do. Perhaps one day you will find it on the internet, one day, by coincidence.

Edited April 21, 2015 by MWresearch

[Acme]

Boogers