Research on the ' Strangeness ' of quantum mechanics .

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

The U.K. In its Universities is attempting to scratch at the surface of the weirdness of Quantum Mechanics. It has fascinated many probing scientists , from the early pioneers , (1890 to 1920 ) through the 20 th century , to today .

 

Now some fascinating ideas and a different approach is underway .

 

Mike

Edited April 21, 2015 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[Strange]

 

Now some fascinating ideas and a different approach is underway .

 

Which is ... ?

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

Which is ... ?

That is there is new research underway currently , ,like (what it was,) that Roger Penrose hinted at in a series of lectures to the Universities in USA A while ago. He illustrated it in his talks , as two completely two different domains . As if Classical physics was operating , on the surface of the Earth , while quantum mechanics was operating in a completely different domain , namely in and under the Ocean .

 

Yes operating on a similar 'entity ' , like an Atom .

 

But one ( classical ) from above on the surface of the Earth.

The other ( quantum) from under the sea.

 

Two completely separate and different domains of existence . Except they are operating on a shared (entity) namely the atom .

 

 

If we think about that for a moment . The sharing ,is what brings atoms together.

 

Before the sharing entities were such things as : 1 ) hydrogen nucleus or proton. 2 ) electron 3) photons . These were bumping but separate.

 

But at the recombination of approx 300,000 years after start ( singularity , inflation ,Big Bang ) there was a coming together into atoms .

 

Questions .

~~~~~~~~

1) Perhaps here is where we can best appreciate these two domains coming into a close contact ?

 

2)The electrons seem particularly associated with quantum weirdness . Perhaps they brought the quantum weirdness with them ,into the atom ?

 

3) Which is where we now find its significance?

 

~~~~~~~~

 

The research currently underway in the U.k. Seems to support this .

 

Mike

Edited April 21, 2015 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[Strange]

That is there is new research underway currently

 

Can you be more specific; e.g. a link or something.

 

 

The research currently underway in the U.k. Seems to support this .

 

What research, specifically?

 

The rest of your post is too vague to comment on.

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

Can you be more specific; e.g. a link or something.

 

 

 

specifically?

 

 

The University is Imperial College London

 

Link to university :-

 

Professor responsible :- link to Quantum Theory: It's Unreal :-

 

If you have not the time to watch an hour long lecture ( I recommend you do ) as although you will know the preamble , it all is relevant to the Argument which comes in at about 40:00 minutes . Then through to the end .

 

Here some quantum location, non realism .and some quantum not real , are discussed. In a new light.

 

His research is specifically on :-

 

TIME and LOCATION ( classical ) as opposed to

 

NO TIME and NO SPECIFIC LOCATION (quantum)

 

Mike

Edited April 21, 2015 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[Endy0816]

Quantum mechanics occurs everywhere. Your computer makes use of quantum tunneling for instance.

 

 

BB & Singularities:

 

We only know how events(generally) unfolded past a certain point in time.

 

-------------------|------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|

? Hot Dense state(Big Bang) Present

 

We don't know there was or ever are any singularities. Whenever you see singularity in a scientific context instead think, "math result, may not be real".

Edited April 21, 2015 by Endy0816

[swansont]

The University is Imperial College London

 

Link to university :-

 

Professor responsible :- link to Quantum Theory: It's Unreal :-

 

If you have not the time to watch an hour long lecture ( I recommend you do ) as although you will know the preamble , it all is relevant to the Argument which comes in at about 40:00 minutes . Then through to the end .

 

Here some quantum location, non realism .and some quantum not real , are discussed. In a new light.

 

His research is specifically on :-

 

TIME and LOCATION ( classical ) as opposed to

 

NO TIME and NO SPECIFIC LOCATION (quantum)

 

Mike

 

!

Moderator Note

 

You need to do better than this. From rule 2.7:

 

Links, pictures and videos in posts should be relevant to the discussion, and members should be able to participate in the discussion without clicking any links or watching any videos. Videos and pictures should be accompanied by enough text to set the tone for the discussion, and should not be posted alone.

 

 

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

Comments on the research being done at Imperial college re quantum v classical physics .

 

It would seem his research has led to the idea that we see things that require time and place .

 

A précis of what he said was :-

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ classical ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

You are over there and you are eating a banana .

 

We are over here at this position or place sitting down , you are over there , eating a banana. Oh wait a moment , now you have stopped , now you are resting from your ordeal.

 

Position, place and time, change of time , are all tied up in who we are , what we are , what we are doing from one moment to the next , and where exactly we are doing it .

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ conclusion what we see and what we interact with is all about PLACE & TIME ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

And more to the point the mathematics and computers are all maths , place and time , orientated

 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ with QUANTUM ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Contrary to this , the particular area of quantum behaviour that he and his team are investigating have observed that the electrons or whatever particle or entity that they are specifically trying to observe , when left undisturbed are NOT PLACE & TIME orientated.

Only when observed do they change their state and become PLACE & TIME orientated.

They have another mode where they are everywhere, as regards time I think it is similar , not sure ? No time , simultaneous.

 

~~~~~~~ conclusion : we will never understand quantum using classical computing , current computers ,only quantum computers ~~~~~~

 

Interesting stuff

 

Mike

Edited April 21, 2015 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[Strange]

I am not able to watch the video (without a large amount of effort) but Dr. Terry Rudolph (the, so far, unnamed scientist) does appear to have done some interesting work. And also has a brilliant bio in the web page for (what I think is) the video linked above: http://www3.imperial.ac.uk/newsandeventspggrp/imperialcollege/eventssummary/event_12-9-2014-14-55-9

 

He is also known for the PBR Theorem, which I don't understand but sounds interesting and important: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PBR_theorem

But from Mike's comments so far, I don't see anything much different from the standard description of quantum mechanics.

[swansont]

But from Mike's comments so far, I don't see anything much different from the standard description of quantum mechanics.

 

I agree. That sounds much more like a basic explanation of QM to a lay audience than a description of something new.

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

I am not able to watch the video (without a large amount of effort) but Dr. Terry Rudolph (the, so far, unnamed scientist) does appear to have done some interesting work. And also has a brilliant bio in the web page for (what I think is) the video linked above: http://www3.imperial.ac.uk/newsandeventspggrp/imperialcollege/eventssummary/event_12-9-2014-14-55-9

 

He is also known for the PBR Theorem, which I don't understand but sounds interesting and important: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PBR_theorem

But from Mike's comments so far, I don't see anything much different from the standard description of quantum mechanics.

.

.Yes , but up to now it was an observation of what happened , accepting its ' queer ness '. The work and explanation from the Imperial college ,In the form of research by Dr. Terry Rudolph is an explanation of WHY , it is like it is . It's another environment , all it's own , it's own domain . It has contact surely by sharing a particle ( the electron ) , not because it is part of the classical environment , with a bit of awkward behaviour. It is in its own environment . It's behaviour is Normal and rules as king ! Or have I misunderstood what Dr. Terry Rudolph is saying?

 

A metaphor or analogy would surely be ' as if like a lodger in a family house.' The lodger is there to pay the family bill, by providing an income for the family. BUT the lodger is ' by no means ' family and never could be.

So the electron is the lodger ( quantum ), with its different distinctive quantum behaviour. However because it has charge , ( a common requirement) it is needed as a lodger, to pay the rent , and make atoms what they are. Is that not what Dr. Terry Rudolph is saying ?

 

Mike

Edited April 21, 2015 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

.

.Yes , but up to now it was an observation of what happened , accepting its ' queer ness '. The work and explanation from the Imperial college ,In the form of research by Dr. Terry Rudolph is an explanation of WHY , it is like it is . It's another environment , all it's own , it's own domain . It has contact surely by sharing a particle ( the electron ) , not because it is part of the classical environment , with a bit of awkward behaviour. It is in its own environment . It's behaviour is Normal and rules as king ! Or have I misunderstood what Dr. Terry Rudolph is saying?

A metaphor or analogy would surely be ' as if like a lodger in a family house.' The lodger is there to pay the family bill, by providing an income for the family. BUT the lodger is ' by no means ' family and never could be.

So the electron is the lodger ( quantum ), with its different distinctive quantum behaviour. However because it has charge , ( a common requirement) it is needed as a lodger, to pay the rent , and make atoms what they are. Is that not what Dr. Terry Rudolph is saying ?

Mike

So . Is it not possible ? that " Quantum Phenomenon" exist in another Dimension? And is only ? where that other dimension , shares an aspect of the Classical 3 dimensions of x,y,z, space ? , and the 4 th of time possibly ? . Share a common interest ( the Atom ) , that we become aware of the quantum world and it's queerness in its own dimension? Edited April 25, 2015 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

I have this morning made an observation and a possible deduction , where we can ' see' with our eyes , what is going on at a sub atomic level .

 

It starts with the ' springiness ' while bending and allowing to move freely COPPER WIRE .

 

Here are the two pieces of copper wire in question :-

 

 

Firstly : The right hand coil of copper wire . I have taken a short length of 1 - 1.5 mm copper wire , bent it fairly easily into a 2-3 turn coil approx 2.5 cm in diameter. The shaping and bending process required modest effort to form the shape. I would think ? That the semi permanent deformation at this stage breaks the electrostatic bonds , which immediately reform , but in a different configuration of atomic structure? Having formed the new shape, the coil does NOT spring back into its original straight piece of wire. However! From 'here on in ' things change, dramatically.

 

The coil can be compressed fairly easily with two fingers . ' here is the nub ' , it returns to its original constructed coil shape , without any further deformation.

 

Surely we or I am observing something going on down at the sub atomic quantum level . Even though I am up here at the Macro Classical Level .

 

 

Note the deformation , does not occur and the shape is repeated, time after time after time , ad nausium .

 

Secondly :

 

And even more exciting , when I do the same with the open ended parabolic ' comet ' style ' shape .

bingo ! Eureka ! And it gets better !

 

Notice the open ends of the comet shape are vibrating whereas the part where my fingers clasp the copper wire are perfectly ' still ' ( no vibration there ) .

 

In other words are we witnessing with our eyes , what is actually going on at a sub atomic bonding level of atomic operation . Namely the electrostatic attraction and repulsion going on between atoms ?

 

Mike

 

Ps . And even more exciting . When I stop the vibration , by contact on the lower vibrating ' tong ' . The upper vibrating ' tong' . Stops instantly , instantaneously ! Wow ! ( or thereabouts )

 

Edited August 8, 2015 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[Strange]

 

Surely we or I am observing something going on down at the sub atomic quantum level .

 

Well, ultimately everything we observe is due to things going on at the quantum level: the colour, ductility, conductivity, melting point, etc of copper are all due to interactions between the electrons in the atoms. But what you are observing can probably (I am no metallurgist) be mainly explained by the crystal structure.

 

 

Notice the open ends of the comet shape are vibrating whereas the part where my fingers clasp the copper wire are perfectly ' still ' ( no vibration there ) .

 

Not perfectly still, otherwise the vibration could not be carried from one side to the other. (Try clamping the middle firmly in a vice.)

 

 

Ps . And even more exciting . When I stop by contact the lower vibrating ' tong ' . The upper vibrating ' tong' . Stops instantly , instantaneously ! Wow ! ( or thereabouts )

 

Not instantaneously. I would guess this happens at about the speed of sound in copper.

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

Well, ultimately everything we observe is due to things going on at the quantum level: the colour, ductility, conductivity, melting point, etc of copper are all due to interactions between the electrons in the atoms. But what you are observing can probably (I am no metallurgist) be mainly explained by the crystal structure.

 

 

 

Not perfectly still, otherwise the vibration could not be carried from one side to the other. (Try clamping the middle firmly in a vice.)

 

 

Not instantaneously. I would guess this happens at about the speed of sound in copper.

Yes , but certainly did not build up , full amplitude both sides ' apparently ' same time ( but as you say no doubt speed of sound ( which presumable speed of vibration in the lattice ?

 

 

interesting the amplitude of the other side was decidedly smaller but still there . I guess the residue came in through the atomic lattice

 

Edited August 8, 2015 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[swansont]

 

Not perfectly still, otherwise the vibration could not be carried from one side to the other. (Try clamping the middle firmly in a vice.)

 

Not an issue for a standing wave.

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

Not an issue for a standing wave.

How does the energy involved with the standing wave move through ( across) , the central clamp or my fingers . As the sustained standing wave continues to oscillate?

 

And similarly , how does the standing wave collapse, on the opposite side of the node , when it is stopped on the other side , by a forced or premature stop?

 

Does the pressure wave in or of the copper wire change from a lateral wave to a longitudinal wave as it crosses the node ?

 

 

Mike

Edited August 8, 2015 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[swansont]

How does the energy involved with the standing wave move through ( across) , the central clamp or my fingers .

 

There is no net transfer of energy in a standing wave.

[Strange]

 

There is no net transfer of energy in a standing wave.

 

True, if you start both sides vibrating at the same time. But how about if you "flick" just one end ? Will that be isolated to one side by the fixed point in the middle?

[swansont]

 

True, if you start both sides vibrating at the same time. But how about if you "flick" just one end ? Will that be isolated to one side by the fixed point in the middle?

 

 

I think the answer is no (ideally). The node represents a barrier with 100% reflection and no transmission. Classically, of course. In QM, there is tunneling.

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

I think the answer is no (ideally). The node represents a barrier with 100% reflection and no transmission. Classically, of course. In QM, there is tunneling.

?

I will re-clamp it . The copper wire , carefully, tightly in the very heavy vice.

 

I will repeat , start , stop , either, or neither, nor . Also with finger hold in middle .

 

 

(A) Note finger held both end vibrate and stop instantly on one side effects other instantly .

 

(B) Note vice held one side only ( mainly ) vibrates. There is a very slight leak .

---------- -------

Ps

 

My take on these two experiments is

 

(A) where the finger holds. The copper wire acts as if the fingers were not there. It vibrates as a single HALF WAVE conjoined vibration , consisting of two QUARTER WAVE sections moving in anti phase. The vibration is about itself .

 

(B) where the vice grips so tightly . The vice acts as a base for each arm separately . One ( when struck) will vibrate as a quarter wave only . The grip is so tight as to restrict any major link between both halves.

{ however there is a slight bleed noticed linking either side . Very small, but there . } The vibration is NOT self supporting , it requires the vice as a heavy base to vibrate from . ( unlike the a) experiment which was self supporting . I imagine it working the same in outer space . Space station. ( that is the a) experiment .

 

Mike

True, if you start both sides vibrating at the same time. But how about if you "flick" just one end ? Will that be isolated to one side by the fixed point in the middle?

I hope I covered this in my second set of experiments.

 

(A) Flicking , definitely transfers across the finger support . Instantly .

 

(B) Flicking the one side on the tight grip vice , does not transfer. ( except a smidgen , does ) perhaps through the crystal lattice ?

 

Mike

 

Ps smidgen meaning , " a very small amount "

Edited August 9, 2015 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

Looking down at the sub atomic / atomic level , I can imagine the " Metallic Bond " existing in the sea of electrons existing in the delocalised state between individual copper atoms .

 

Quote BBC Byte sized

 

Illustrated thus :-

 

So when I make a coil by permanent shaping of the copper wire thus :-

 

 

And then by gently poking with my finger , I can feel and imagining I am " bouncing on an electron sea existing down at that atomic/ sub atomic level . "

 

Thus :-

"

Wow ! It is so very regular, restorative , beautiful . A " cumulative electron sea bounce " .

 

Mike

[swansont]

Atomic bonds can be modeled as masses on springs. There's nothing inherently quantum-mechanical about that. Until you have observed quantization in some way, what you are doing is investigating classical mechanics.

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

Atomic bonds can be modeled as masses on springs. There's nothing inherently quantum-mechanical about that. Until you have observed quantization in some way, what you are doing is investigating classical mechanics.

Yes I was probably slightly remiss in using the word 'quantum ' I was perhaps drawn by the idea that I was effectively feeling forces involving electrons and other atomic particles , which themselves ' can ' take part in quantum behaviour. Though , as you say the feeling of these forces is strictly classical mechanical. Takes a little of the ' magical feel ' I had as I gently , ever so gently pressed the copper wire against this very gentle force , that I could think of in terms of electrons repelling my pressure given by my finger. It was a wonderful pressure ( almost surf board on a sea ' feeling . )

 

Oh well , back to the mundane .

 

Where is the nearest quantum behaviour to my ' electron sea '? Perhaps I could just give a little more of a jolt and my electron , under the added pressure , may just ' quantum tunnel ' to a new state. ( that it has been eyeing up for some time) , ' perhaps a gorgeous looking lone proton , sunning herself on the electron sea shore ?

 

Mike

Edited August 12, 2015 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

Where is the nearest quantum behaviour to my ' electron sea '? Perhaps I could just give a little more of a jolt and my electron , under the added pressure , may just ' quantum tunnel ' to a new state. ( that it has been eyeing up for some time) , ' perhaps a gorgeous looking lone proton , sunning herself on the electron sea shore ?

Mike

.

 

Well here goes . " go for it you lone electron , Push ! "

 

 

"Wait for me , dear , we can do things , together , normally not possible . Things we have only dreamed of . I will find a way . With a little help from my friend! "

 

Mike

Edited August 13, 2015 by Mike Smith Cosmos