Are there any empathics here?

[Lojong]

This is a very interesting discussion. An Empath is a type of personality characterization formed through identification and accumlated experience. My essential P.O.V. is a "philosophy of creativity," in that I see most forms of human expression as "creative acts." Even scientific forumlation and labeling is fundamentally creative - relying on the senses and the personal genetic configurations of individuals - to create paradigms,measurements, and systems. I am a self appointed Empath. I have spent the last thirty years researching and developing Empath models for the purpose of promulgating the Empath concept. In 1997 I looked into putting the word "empath" on the internet. At the time it was a scarce term, typically represented in "role playing games" and science fiction. I flooded the internet (so to speak) with Empath sites, imagery, and concepts. Within a year or two, suddenly EVERYBODY was an empath. Everybody was an expert on empaths. It was kind of humorous but interesting. I continue to promote the empath identity out of my need for creative expression but am somewhat discouraged by the "madness" that ensued from my project. Boy do I have stories to tell! (RE: "the madness", is what Bettina referred to earlier with the quacks and people wanting money!) P.S. For a very intelligent and well crafted explanation of "empath personality" check out ansir.com (no, I don't work for them!)

[wormholeman]

This is the biggest pile of *$#@ I have ever heard. It's a proven fact

the the more you know about a person the more a so called empath

is able to determine about the subject...NO MAGIC HERE!

 

HOI!

[Kharisma]

Hi Lojong,

 

Just read your post this morning as an intro to this forum. Yes, this is a very interesting subject. I don't know if I would consider myself an Empath or not but I like playing with the idea.

 

I can't find the post that worm is referring to regarding magic but I don't like the irrational hostility and blatant disrespect he shows to other people. Unless it is a she, because the post does seem feminine and bitchy. Being a girl myself, I know we can be real nasty. It's just sad to see someone act out in public like that, especially in what is supposed to be an intelligent conversation. As I looked over the other posts here people are expressing their opinions intelligently and sharing their own experiences, as you did Loj. This is not a space to defecate and regurgitate on others, worm. Please take your overt hostility and insecurity elsewhere.

 

K

[Kharisma]

Wow, Spith, very thought provoking! Your comments make good sense to me. What is your background? K

Ok here are my thoughts on the subject' date=' and ideas as to how this might work. Of course I have little education in psychology, so I’m sure there are more knowledgeable people here who may disagree with what I say...

 

etc[/quote']

[Lojong]

Hi K!

 

Finally a nice warm welcome! And a warm welcome to you. I just discovered this forum last night and was attracted to the intelligent conversation going on. It looks like wormholeman is young and may be a bit rash in his expressions. I don't see a post about magic either. I have seen websites that tie empath abilities into spiritual and metaphysical concepts, I do that myself - but I recognize Empaths and Empath ability purely from a psychological and biological perspective. References to Empath ability generally do not encompass extra sensory perception or "psychic abilities" IF that is what he is referring to. Empath abilities are mostly emotional responses and intuitive impressions. Intuition doesn't have to be related to extra sensory perception. An inexperienced person would not be informed about the history of scientific research in the subject of extrasensory perception, so I am not offended by the lack of knowledge.

 

Yes, Spith! I , too, enjoyed your comments. I am impressed by the focus of your thought process and the level of information you shared. Keep writing!

[wormholeman]

Hi Lojong' date='

 

Just read your post this morning as an intro to this forum. Yes, this is a very interesting subject. I don't know if I would consider myself an Empath or not but I like playing with the idea.

 

I can't find the post that worm is referring to regarding magic but I don't like the irrational hostility and blatant disrespect he shows to other people. Unless it is a she, because the post does seem feminine and bitchy. Being a girl myself, I know we can be real nasty. It's just sad to see someone act out in public like that, especially in what is supposed to be an intelligent conversation. As I looked over the other posts here people are expressing their opinions intelligently and sharing their own experiences, as you did Loj. This is not a space to defecate and regurgitate on others, worm. Please take your overt hostility and insecurity elsewhere.

 

K

 

well I guess Im stupid then

[Bettina]

well I guess Im stupid then

 

Your NOT stupid. Your a skeptic. There are no stupid people here.

 

Bettina

[wormholeman]

Thankyou. Next time, when I have something simular to convea,

I will express my self in such a way which will not offend people,

I will be more apropriete.

I apologize

[golden_ratio]

I think in some ways all humans feel empathics, otherwise you would be a sociopath! It's similar to the arguement that human beings are basically altruistic or selfish, scientists have found that witnessing pain in strangers triggers much of the same brain activity that goes on when we feel it directly. They found that watching the painful pictures stimulated activity in the anterior cingulate cortex and the insula, the two structures deep in the brain. These structures are those most consistently found from previous studies to be activated in connection with one’s own pain, although they don’t appear to be linked with the physical sensation of it. So I think this is possible for you to feel empathetic, but to such an extreme may be a sign of imbalance in brain activity. Possible these centers are more active or receptive.

[Bettina]

I think in some ways all humans feel empathics, otherwise you would be a sociopath! It's similar to the arguement that human beings are basically altruistic or selfish, scientists have found that witnessing pain in strangers triggers much of the same brain activity that goes on when we feel it directly. They found that watching the painful pictures stimulated activity in the anterior cingulate cortex and the insula, the two structures deep in the brain. These structures are those most consistently found from previous studies to be activated in connection with one’s own pain, although they don’t appear to be linked with the physical sensation of it. So I think this is possible for you to feel empathetic, but to such an extreme may be a sign of imbalance in brain activity. Possible these centers are more active or receptive.

 

Well, Psyco Doc hasn't figured it out yet and I'm getting tired of going to these meetings because 45 minutes with him feels like two hours. Since I can drive there myself now the burden is lifted from dad, so its unlikely he will let me quit.

 

I will admit that the pills he gave me keeps me from getting really sick. I only go down to a depressed state instead of hanging my head over the sink....so, I guess thats progress.

 

Bettina

[wormholeman]

Hi K!

 

Finally a nice warm welcome! And a warm welcome to you. I just discovered this forum last night and was attracted to the intelligent conversation going on. It looks like wormholeman is young and may be a bit rash in his expressions. I don't see a post about magic either. I have seen websites that tie empath abilities into spiritual and metaphysical concepts' date=' I do that myself - but I recognize Empaths and Empath ability purely from a psychological and biological perspective. References to Empath ability generally do not encompass extra sensory perception or "psychic abilities" IF that is what he is referring to. Empath abilities are mostly emotional responses and intuitive impressions. Intuition doesn't have to be related to extra sensory perception. An inexperienced person would not be informed about the history of scientific research in the subject of extrasensory perception, so I am not offended by the lack of knowledge.

 

Yes, Spith! I , too, enjoyed your comments. I am impressed by the focus of your thought process and the level of information you shared. Keep writing![/quote']

 

(Empath abilities are mostly emotional responses and intuitive impressions. Intuition doesn't have to be related to extra sensory perception. An inexperienced person would not be informed about the history of scientific research in the subject of extrasensory perception)<----Thankyou for explaining this, it helped me out.

[Lojong]

I am interested in your comment Golden_Ratio, regarding possible "imbalance." I work a great deal with individuals identifying themselves as Empaths, and the majority of them report imbalances and instability from a number of areas in their lives. In dealing with them via the internet, I have encountered a great deal of unstable and unpredictable behavior. I don't know if that can be attributed to "the internet" itself ( as an arena for anonymous behavior) or if it truly is a consistent trait amongst a particular group of people.

 

A large percentage of the people who respond to my websites and written material seem to have a psychiatric history of one sort or another. I do not have a medical background and cannot comment for sure as to whether or not they are experiencing some form of neurological imbalance. I am primarily interested in the organization of the subjective experience they report. Has anyone heard of any medical/scientific research into empathy, and specifically people who profess high degrees of empathic experience?

[Lojong]

Hey WormHoleMan!

 

Thanks for the reply! I understand, if you look around the internet, the word Empath is thrown around like a volleyball at the Mad Hatter's Tea Party! I love the concept myself but don't enjoy what I see being done with it.

I think the most rational idea of the Empath can be reflected in what is now being identified as the "Highly Sensitive Person." The people who match this profile are also the same ones who relate to the word Empath. Unfortunately, when I started pushing the word Empath on the internet in 1997, every single Psychic, Psycho, Sillygoose, and their mother suddenly started using the word and everyone everywhere was suddenly an expert on the matter!

Madam Zelda (archtype palmreader) was now claiming to be an Empath and for eighty bucks she would zap you with her abilities! eeeek!

I am a serious student of extra sensory perception, and believe it or not, there is serious research out there related to the subject. But the nonsense and the moneygrubbers swarm all over the idea and make it a sorry state of affairs (in my opinion anyway).

I call myself an Empath, which means to me I am a little hypervigilant in watching your facial expressions, body movements, and other small signals. I am also overly sensitive to light,sound,smell, and vibration. I over identify with the emotions you express and have extremely strong associations that trigger reactions to your presence. I take this bundle of fun and filter it through my professional training and ethical nature, and it makes me a decent counselor & helper.

Scientific inquiry will always be my first love but I have to admit, my creative nature dominates!

[CanadaAotS]

well, not trying to get off topic, but on ESP research, I was watching on discovery channel, they would have 2 people in seperate rooms, the first would choose an image out of 4 and the second would guess or "read the others mind" to pick the image the other one picked

 

apparently they hand one guy in that consistently got 30-35% correct, when probablity says he should've only gotten 25...

 

I believe ESP might actually be a real thing, and that the only thing hampering research on it is the bad rep its gotten with "tv psychics" and the such.

 

on empathy: I don't know why anyone would not believe this is a real thing. just sounds like someone who's highly sensitive, maybe to the point where they take emotional input and produce it themselves.

[Lojong]

hmmm....I just read a post in a forum far, far away, stating that in most if not all cases of high school shootings, that the teenagers were taking prescription SSRI drugs. Has anyone else heard of this?

[Lojong]

on empathy: I don't know why anyone would not believe this is a real thing. just sounds like someone who's highly sensitive' date=' maybe to the point where they take emotional input and produce it themselves.[/quote']

 

It's very real, just hasn't been "quantified" yet, so speculation is wide open. ROFL at your quote, love it!

[Kharisma]

Okay wormy, nice to know you are a human being like the rest of us. I enjoy good conversation and level headed debate. I am turned off by the "tv psychic" types and all the hype, but do definitely believe in extra sensory perception. It is a subject that will eventually be mapped out by science just the way chemistry, astronomy, and physics were eventually mapped out.

"There's a lot more to life than what meets the eye!":cool:

[Bettina]

hmmm....I just read a post in a forum far, far away, stating that in most if not all cases of high school shootings, that the teenagers were taking prescription SSRI drugs. Has anyone else heard of this?

 

I'm on Fluoxetine....I'll ask my physco doc. Here is an interesting link and an excerpt that perfectly describes me, only multiply it by 10.

 

http://healing.about.com/od/empathic/a/plightofempath.htm

 

Empaths are sensitive to TV, videos, movies, news and broadcasts. Violence or emotional dramas depicting shocking scenes of physical or emotional pain inflicted on adults, children or animals can bring an empath easily to tears. At times, they may feel physically ill or choke back the tears. Some empaths will struggle to comprehend any such cruelty, and will have grave difficulty in expressing themselves in the face of another's ignorance, closed-mindedness and obvious lack of compassion. They simply cannot justify the suffering they feel and see.

 

I'm cheating now....I'm not supposed to discuss things with others.

 

Bettina

[Lojong]

Interesting article, Bettina. You're not supposed to talk to any one else? I hope you don't have to marry the group leader and be his tenth wife or anything? (sorry for being sarcastic).

 

I have identified myself as an Empathic for a long time and have spent a large portion of my life studying "Empaths." I am currently working on a doctoral thesis on "Empath Psychology" where I've compiled my findings.

 

I do believe that one day Empaths will be medically recognized and our special needs will be addressed. The only thing that scares me is the large drug companies " Overloaded with the emotions of others? Too many premonitions in one day? Try Deadnol and be happy once again!":-p

[Bettina]

Interesting article' date=' Bettina. You're not supposed to talk to any one else? I hope you don't have to marry the group leader and be his tenth wife or anything? (sorry for being sarcastic).

 

I have identified myself as an Empathic for a long time and have spent a large portion of my life studying "Empaths." I am currently working on a doctoral thesis on "Empath Psychology" where I've compiled my findings.

 

I do believe that one day Empaths will be medically recognized and our special needs will be addressed. The only thing that scares me is the large drug companies " Overloaded with the emotions of others? Too many premonitions in one day? Try Deadnol and be happy once again!":-p[/quote']

 

You seem like a nice person, and thanks for understanding, but I have a few questions...

 

Who gives you a doctorate if Empath Psychology isn't recognized? I found a lot of doctors out there that got there license online. How do I know who is real?

 

What is Deadnol?

 

I googled Empath Psychology and went to one, but it looked too bogus and filled with ads and when I tried to leave it locked up my browser.

 

He doesn't want me to discuss my problems here, because he said there are lots of imposters here that may give me bad advice.

 

Bettina

[Lojong]

Hi Bettina,

 

Thanks. You seem like a good person and I know you will find your way. Empath Psychology shouldn't have any ads on it, especially my sites! My sites are under reconstruction at the moment and are offered as a public service and a playground for empathics. Eventually, there will be a wealth of information there.

 

I have a Masters degree in Psychology and am pursuing a self-designed doctoral disseration on Empath Psychology. I have to petition to accredited universities who offer degrees in Transpersonal Psychology to endorse the work. With or without endorsement the work will be published and I will continue to follow my heart. My background is largely that of a counselor and a teacher.

 

My downfalling is that I am uncontrollably creative, and apparently most people react very strangely to unleashed creativity. (many long stories here). I enjoy using metaphor to express myself and to explore reality - yet others tend to react to the metaphor as if I were pushing some kind of doctrine or belief.

 

If anything that I have learned can help you at all, I am always willing to try.

 

Jad

 

p.s. Deadnol was my lame attempt at humor, sorry!

[padren]

Hi Bettina

 

Long thread, but worth the read. I think this thread deserves to be in this section because the discussion is an attempt to explore a condition in a scientifically grounded way, and when people post "New Age" concepts they tend to be sidelined in favor of seeking more grounded advice.

 

I have a limited experience with empathy, more so than most but less than I would characterize yourself or others I know. I was almost angry at the person who told me to see Titanic because of my rather strong and draining reaction, and only a few times have I every imo "lost it" and been unable to recover quickly. At this point, I can intentionally "flip" a switch and decide how much I want to feel, when I choose to flip it on I am sometimes unprepared for the resulting wash.

 

In reading the thread, my thinking has been fairly consistent with Spiths, but I have some ideas and suggestions, though I may ask a few questions.

 

 

One, I personally think of emotional reading and instinct this way: over the evolution of humans, instincts arose from making subconscious observations about our surroundings, and generating a "feeling" in our gut, etc, that when acted on leads to increased chances of survival. For instance, you may feel in your gut someone is dishonest - you may not know consciously, that you are reacting to his shifty eyes, tension in his tone of voice, or tons of other factors, but you can pick up on body language and react.

 

The yawn, is thought to spread, because humans would do it when stressed (like how a deer flicks its tail when its worried) and since we are genetically wired to repeat the act (just as a deer flicks its tail involuntarily when it sees another deer doing such) it conveys a need to pay attention because something is amiss throughout a group.

 

How we feel emotionally, is quite heavily communicated by body language, and being able to turn those cues into an emotion one can feel helps us understand what the other feels, is something that is a survival advantage in a social group, and grow by natural selection.

 

 

With those elements, in your case you really strongly empathize and have a rare ability to really immerse yourself in those emotions. I can't help but to wonder that, even if you consciously would rather not be bothered by such things, if you deep down wish to understand the source of why people feel such pain. Even if you know in your mind a murder is a senseless act, that emotionally you want to understand why something so horrible had to happen a defenseless child or animal.

 

I say that because for me, I am most lost in emotional pain, when emotionally I want to "burn through" what I feel until I can reduce it like a logical equation (which doesn't work so well). I can be mentally ready to move on, but unless I am emotionally, I am not free of it. I know this is different than your case, because my experiences are not so vivid, but I wonder if the need to understand drives it at all.

 

A couple questions:

 

1) Do you see other people in general, how "head strong" they are, do you feel like others have stronger convictions and more "forward" personalities than yourself?

 

2) Do you have strong convictions on how the world should be and how you want to enact change, or have a strong feeling of what you want to do with your life, a firm sense of purpose?

 

 

If you feel "yes" to 1, and "no" or "kind of but less than most others" to 2, you may have a sort of "pure observer" sense of self, which is more prone to being emotionally overwhelmed. Please don't be offended if I am way off or feel like I am trying to size you up with some insta-assumptions, I'm taking stabs in the dark in hopes something rings.

 

 

3) When you visually loose yourself in a scene, do you hear yourself thinking you'd like to stop this, or are your thoughts consumed by the event?

 

As for ideas that could help, I'd like to recommend some possibly. Without going all new age on you, I'd like to recommend some meditation type stuff, not because I think it will have metaphysical effects, but because it can be a useful part of emotional management skills.

 

If you are being overwhelmed by immersive emotional and sensory feelings, practicing meditations that take volitional control of these sorts of things can help.

For instance, practice visualizing a scene, maybe a natural scene, and add a butterfly, then add another, and try to visually keep track of much vivid detail as you can.

 

For emotions, try practicing feeling emotions of your choice. I've found if I focus on feeling my body right around the center of my ribcage on my chest, I can spontaneously (takes a few moments sometimes) invoke a feeling of joy without much effort, and taking conscious control of my emotions have helped me deal with a number of things in life.

 

The last intellectual exercise I can recommend of this nature (may only help if overall you are an optimist), is try think about the world as a whole. At any moment, there is a lot of death and suffering, but also a lot of joy, a lot of people holding their new children and such, at any given moment, the worst of the worst is mushed in with the best of the best. Personally, I get an overall good feeling about the world as it is at any given second, so the sense that the worst thing I can observe close up is still a small part of something that I can't help but to overall feel good about. Just like we try to keep logical perspective of things (when a plane crashes, we comfort ourselves by saying its statistically rare) it sort of helps keep emotional perspective by being able to know that feeling well and being able to summon it at any moment.

 

I hope that is helpful, I don't know if it will be, and I am sure you've had to separate a lot of chaff in your search for wheat, and I wish you well and hope you find what you need.

[Bettina]

QUOTE from padren.... A couple questions:

 

1) Do you see other people in general, how "head strong" they are, do you feel like others have stronger convictions and more "forward" personalities than yourself?

 

1) No and yes....My convictions tend to be on the strong side and I have difficulty or unwillingness to change it if I think I'm right. My personality though is opposite. I may sound forward here, because I am not face to face but in real life I am much different. I tend to be quiet and don't speak much when in mixed company.

 

2) Do you have strong convictions on how the world should be

Yes...very much so.

 

and how you want to enact change? or have a strong feeling of what you want to do with your life, a firm sense of purpose?No...I don't know how to make the world change and I'm not sure what my purpose here is yet. I wanted to be either a nurse or teacher, but now I'm not sure.

 

 

If you feel "yes" to 1, and "no" or "kind of but less than most others" to 2, you may have a sort of "pure observer" sense of self, which is more prone to being emotionally overwhelmed. Please don't be offended if I am way off or feel like I am trying to size you up with some insta-assumptions, I'm taking stabs in the dark in hopes something rings.

 

 

3) When you visually loose yourself in a scene, do you hear yourself thinking you'd like to stop this, or are your thoughts consumed by the event?

 

Unless I can quickly break away, I'm very much consumed by the event and I can feel my eyes well up instantly. I told my doctor a few years ago that I felt it affect my hearbeat and I could feel it pounding. After and EKG he attributed it to anxiety.

 

Good luck trying to figure me out.

[Lojong]

I have a "hunch" that through music you will find your way and your Self. Your voice is a key to your heart, and through song you will share a special connection with those you meet. All the kings horses and all the kings men...may not be able to figure you out, but when you sing the truth becomes clear.

 

[FreqWhenSee]

Very good advice LoJong. Bettina, I'm glad you started this blog, it's nice to know there are others out there. You sound like a very kindred soul with more care than most we see from day to day. It isn't an easy life, but it can be a very powerful one with respects to spreading goodness. Have you ever thought that you may be very correct in feeling what you are feeling?... a "pure observer" so to say?

 

"Western" medicine, tends to put things such as "anxiety" and "depression" into groups and leave it at that. "That's just the way things are" without any holistic explanation.

 

This is, of course, far from reality with respects to the full spectrum of human emotion and response. It is possible that everyone in this society supresses these very same feelings (on an unconscious level) and find another way into comfort zones. Regardless of what anyone says, this world is incredibly ugly, corrupt, and evil. Control over our personal perception is even a multi-billion dollar business in America (marketing and public relations).

 

I believe that a very fortunate few have the ability to see things for how they truely are without accepting the larger group's beliefs. We are a product of our genetics and environment over time. The only key to growth under strong empathetic circumstance is gaining a greater understanding of the micro and macro environment of our lives, then discovering the path through it. Your purpose will emerge through this adventure. Please don't find a way to supress this gift too much.

 

Do you have any relatives (such as grandparents) in your blood line who were deeply involved in the mind such as psychiatry or relatives deeply involved in caring for others?